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Old
10-20-2008, 11:21 AM
  #26
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Personally, I would have these 2 basic criteria for the number to be retired:

10+ years as a hab
Make it into the HOF

I'd like it to be slighly more objective.

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10-20-2008, 11:38 AM
  #27
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Agreed completely. A player should not even be considered for jersey retirement unless he first makes it to the Hall of Fame. On a team like this, it should be a prerequisite before the idea is even considered.

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10-20-2008, 11:44 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz View Post
Even without the Cup, If Koivu finishes his career in Montreal, I'd like to see his number retired.

Imo, and I know 95% won't agree with me, but if Koivu wins a Cup in Montreal and finishes his career as a hab, I think he deserves to have his number retired MORE than Patrick Roy does. My opinion.
agreed

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10-20-2008, 11:53 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by rocketlives View Post
Koivu should be compared with Henri, not with the Rocket. When Saku's career with the habs is over, he'll be very far behind the Rocket's 544 goals.
The major difference might be that the pocket rocket has a stanley cup for each finger


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 10-20-2008 at 12:03 PM.
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10-20-2008, 11:57 AM
  #30
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I don't see his jersey getting retired, not even close imo. Granted he's put up some impressive #'s and he should end up top 10 all time in scoring and the Habs highest scoring European born player still think Naslund was better, but he played in a more open era, better teams and Koivu's injuries make it hard to say for sure. I'm a huge, huge fan of both as both are two of my all time favorite Habs (since I didn't become a Hab fan till the mid-80's.

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Old
10-20-2008, 12:22 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by AD View Post
They are both extremely selfless players on the ice but very sefish off the ice.
What on earth are you going on about? Koivu is selfish off the ice? I guess that's why he was awarded the King Clancy Memorial Trophy for his charitable work?

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Old
10-20-2008, 12:52 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by FinnoHab View Post
Yeah, really bad passes, no vision whatsoever... on both of those Tanguay goals there last night.

Yes, he isn't as fast as he once was. But he is still one heck of a center and has been carrying the load this season with Pleky and his line not clicking yet. I seriously can't believe people finding negative things to say about him right now.

But on a more positive note, I am as thrilled as you are about the fact that he finally has the quality winger he deserves.
I've said this before and I'll say this again. Habs fans want an elite all star forward, but we already have him. His name is Saku Koivu. He is by far the best player on our team. He's a leader, he's a great two way guy, he's great on faceoffs, he's our captain and wears the C proudly and always performs above his own level in the playoffs The guy is a machine, one of the most respectable players in the NHL. The guy would never hurt a fly and has been through so much in his career here in Montreal, he's one of the few players I could not bare to see leave.

He is what has kept this team together for so long and continues to be a part of the core makeup that makes this team what it is today. He is the centerpeice of our team, he IS an elite forward in the NHL, sometimes the scoresheet isn't where his skills are shown but you really see how much it hurts to not have him on the ice, especially in the playoffs.

For many years people have said he isn't a 1st line c, that he isn't a great offensive forward, but he's always performed when it has mattered and he gives 100% every night and 110% when it actually matters. This guy is a class act and a rare 1/1000 type NHL player imo. He's even put up with ******** and judgement a lot of the time, only to come back from cancer, bad injuries, and always be the habs knight in shining armor. To me, he may not be quite the definition of a 1st line C, but he is to me, the definition of what a leader or captain is and that makes him even more priceless a player to have imo.

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10-20-2008, 01:01 PM
  #33
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Amen!

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Old
10-20-2008, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Lord Chezz View Post
hes old and worn out...

Waive him
exactly what i was gona suggest!

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Old
10-20-2008, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CH4THECUP View Post
The major difference might be that the pocket rocket has a stanley cup for each finger

It doesn't impress me as much as it does you because I know that he played on a dominant team throughout his career, starting with the 1950s dynasty and finishing in the era of Lafleur and Robinson. If he had played on a team assembled by Houle he wouldn't have any rings or be a nominee for the HOF. Has there been a single Hab drafted since the '93 Cup worthy of entering the HOF or having his number retired?

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10-20-2008, 05:16 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by FinnoHab View Post
What on earth are you going on about? Koivu is selfish off the ice? I guess that's why he was awarded the King Clancy Memorial Trophy for his charitable work?
Look.. I love the guy. I do.

Him, Jean Béliveau and Kirk Muller are my three all time favorite Habs.

But I've met him. And I stand by what I said. He's a selfless, passionate warrior on the ice, but he's arrogant, distant and looks selfish off the ice.

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10-20-2008, 05:25 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz View Post
Even without the Cup, If Koivu finishes his career in Montreal, I'd like to see his number retired.

Imo, and I know 95% won't agree with me, but if Koivu wins a Cup in Montreal and finishes his career as a hab, I think he deserves to have his number retired MORE than Patrick Roy does. My opinion.
I completly agree with you. People underestimate Koivu's contribution to this team beacause he played his best hockey when this team couldn't even ice an NHL worthy roster. By the end of his career, he will be the longuest serving captain, top 5 in assists and top 10 in points. A cup may be in his future but in my opinion, he deserves his number retired even if he doesn't get us that cup (considering that he plays a couple more years here, maybe until retirement)

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Old
10-20-2008, 05:34 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AD View Post
Look.. I love the guy. I do.

Him, Jean Béliveau and Kirk Muller are my three all time favorite Habs.

But I've met him. And I stand by what I said. He's a selfless, passionate warrior on the ice, but he's arrogant, distant and looks selfish off the ice.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion as you've already met him, but a lot of his charitable actions off the ice would beg to differ. I don't know, maybe you met him on an off day...

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Old
10-20-2008, 05:40 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by AD View Post
They are both extremely selfless players on the ice but very sefish off the ice. Both are incredibly, even absurdly, competitive.

Slighlty arrogant, difficult to approach.. not the "classic" captain mold.. but in fact they make good captains.
Worst post I have ever read...
His charitible work has not gone unnoticed even though he doesn't seek attention for it. Just because he didn't give you a hug doesn't mean he is selfish. Do you think it would be easy to treat everyone like your best friend in the hockey hotbed of Montreal? Really think about that and tell me how tiring it would be to have constant recognition and very little privacy. It comes with the territory, but it would be impossible to leave everyone with a warm and fuzzy feeling.

Saku is a class act and a hell of a hockey player!

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Old
10-20-2008, 05:43 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by HabsSlappy View Post
Worst post I have ever read...
His charitible work has not gone unnoticed even though he doesn't seek attention for it. Just because he didn't give you a hug doesn't mean he is selfish. Do you think it would be easy to treat everyone like your best friend in the hockey hotbed of Montreal? Really think about that and tell me how tiring it would be to have constant recognition and very little privacy. It comes with the territory, but it would be impossible to leave everyone with a warm and fuzzy feeling.

Saku is a class act and a hell of a hockey player!
I doubt that was the worst post ever.

It wasn't very good.. but definitely not one of the worst. Give your head a shake!

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Old
10-20-2008, 05:46 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by AD View Post
I doubt that was the worst post ever.

It wasn't very good.. but definitely not one of the worst. Give your head a shake!


alright maybe not the worst, but it was completely baseless and you were ripping on my captain. I got worked up.

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10-20-2008, 05:47 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by HotPie View Post
You're certainly entitled to your opinion as you've already met him, but a lot of his charitable actions off the ice would beg to differ. I don't know, maybe you met him on an off day...
Some people are just like that.

I'm not saying the guy is an a-hole. Quite the contrary..

I'll give you another example. I met Erik Cole and Eric Staal at the same time one night. It was a few months after Cole totally dominated the Habs during a playoff run.. so I naturally thought that Stall, the young and cool guy, would be a nice guy and I thought that Cole, with his smug face and attitude would be a loser.

Once I talked to them, it was quite clear that Cole is one of the nicest millionaires I had ever met.. meanwhile, Stall was kinda of a dick.

No problem. I still like Staal better as a hockey player..

Who cares what one random dude thinks about the off ice standoffish personality of a hockey player.. .. I just felt like sharing. But I guess I should have shut up..

Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsSlappy View Post


alright maybe not the worst, but it was completely baseless and you were ripping on my captain. I got worked up.
Totally understand. Thank you for the headshake...

Koivu's a distant mofo though.. I don't blame hime... Mario Lemieux was like that as well.. and Mario has done huge things for the community and is my all time favorite player. Ask Lord Chez about Mario as well..


Last edited by Beakermania*: 10-20-2008 at 06:36 PM.
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Old
10-20-2008, 05:59 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
If Koivu was to win a cup in the near future with the Habs, do you guys think his number would be retired? He's coming up on the longest captain tenure for the club, is top 10 in points. It would be interesting.
I think if he wins a cup and finishes his career with the club he is a definite!
If he left the club it may be more debatable, just my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz View Post
Even without the Cup, If Koivu finishes his career in Montreal, I'd like to see his number retired.

Imo, and I know 95% won't agree with me, but if Koivu wins a Cup in Montreal and finishes his career as a hab, I think he deserves to have his number retired MORE than Patrick Roy does. My opinion.
I love Roy, but I'm in the 5%, right with you.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 10-20-2008 at 06:49 PM.
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Old
10-20-2008, 06:19 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by mabus View Post
Agreed completely. A player should not even be considered for jersey retirement unless he first makes it to the Hall of Fame. On a team like this, it should be a prerequisite before the idea is even considered.
Nonsense. Teams, including the Habs, sometimes retire numbers before the retired players are elected to the HOF. Examples include Maurice Richard's #9 and Jean Béliveau's #4.

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Old
10-20-2008, 06:20 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Nonsense. Teams, including the Habs, sometimes retire numbers before the retired players are elected to the HOF. Examples include Maurice Richard's #9 and Jean Béliveau's #4.
Though your post is factually correct, it is substantially wrong.

Everybody and their pet hamsters knew that Béliveau and Richard were going to be in the HOF.

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10-20-2008, 06:28 PM
  #46
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If Koivu doesn't win the cup with us, then I'm going to steal it, write his name on it, give it to him and take a picture.

That man has been the most deserving of a cup since Ray mother****ing Bourque.

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Old
10-20-2008, 06:39 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by AD View Post
Some people are just like that.

I'm not saying the guy is an a-hole. Quite the contrary..

I'll give you another example. I met Erik Cole and Eric Staal at the same time one night. It was a few months after Cole totally dominated the Habs during a playoff run.. so I naturally thought that Stall, the young and cool guy, would be a nice guy and I thought that Cole, with his smug face and attitude would be a loser.

Once I talked to them, it was quite clear that Cole is one of the nicest millionaires I had ever met.. meanwhile, Stall was kinda of a dick.

No problem. I still like Staal better as a hockey player..

Who cares what one random dude thinks about the off ice standoffish personality of a hockey player.. .. I just felt like sharing. But I guess I should have shut up..



Totally understand. Thank you for the headshake...

Koivu's a distant mofo though.. I don't blame hime... Mario Lemieux was like that as well.. and Mario has done huge things for the community and is my all time favorite player. Ask Lord Chez about Mario as well..

Lets not...

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Old
10-20-2008, 06:52 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by AD View Post
Though your post is factually correct, it is substantially wrong.

Everybody and their pet hamsters knew that Béliveau and Richard were going to be in the HOF.
Are you implying that I didn't know it?

By the way, please explain the difference between factually correct and substantially correct or between factually wrong and substantially wrong.

While we're at it, I'd say that the Habs have been a tad overgenerous in retiring uniform numbers. As you say, Richard and Béliveau were shoo-ins (although I doubt that anyone's hamsters would have been so prescient) but I'm less confident about some of the more recent honorees. Furthermore, I suppose a case could be made for Koivu but it would rest at least as much on sentiment as on accomplishment. He was unlucky to have come along in the wrong era. He would have been a sensation in the 1950s, especially before his string of injuries. He would have been up there with Davey Keon, who in my opinion was superior to Henri Richard. I know, I know, that's controversial but their point totals were similar and Keon scored more goals.

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Old
10-20-2008, 06:55 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Are you implying that I didn't know it?

By the way, please explain the difference between factually correct and substantially correct or between factually wrong and substantially wrong.
You used a true fact (factually correct) in your post to defend a point which in substance is wrong, which is that the Montreal Canadiens have retired the number of players that have not made it into the HOF. A casual reader could have been mistaken into thinking that the Habs could retire other numbers of other players that had no chance of making it into the HOF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
While we're at it, I'd say that the Habs have been a tad overgenerous in retiring uniform numbers. As you say, Richard and Béliveau were shoo-ins (although I doubt that anyone's hamsters would have been so prescient) but I'm less confident about some of the more recent honorees. Furthermore, I suppose a case could be made for Koivu but it would rest at least as much on sentiment as on accomplishment. He was unlucky to have come along in the wrong era. He would have been a sensation in the 1950s, especially before his string of injuries. He would have been up there with Davey Keon, who in my opinion was superior to Henri Richard. I know, I know, that's controversial but their point totals were similar and Keon scored more goals.
Agreed on these points.

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Old
10-20-2008, 07:20 PM
  #50
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I met Guy Carbonneau.

And he's a ****IN' LIAR

But rather polite and far more personable than I expected. If I was a woman I'd melt for that smile any day. If I was a woman.

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