HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Report: Nhl Governors Considering Second Team In Toronto

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-21-2008, 01:00 PM
  #76
Fido22
Registered User
 
Fido22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilWinger11 View Post
If you include surrounding areas of NYC (North Jersey, western Long Island, Westchester County NY, Fairfield County CT) the number goes up to more like 20 million. I still think the GTA has the edge as far as number of people who would support a hockey team.
Pfff, Tokyo/Yokohama has some 33M. Still, I think Toronto has more hockey fans.

Fido22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:00 PM
  #77
Blades 0f Steel
Registered User
 
Blades 0f Steel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Tibet
Posts: 11,523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Good point and I'd also like to add that the 2.5 million doubles to 5 million if you include the whole GTA (Greater Toronto Area).
Yeah, there's no 'probably' about it. Compare 700,000 diehard hockey fans & 500,000 casual fans from NY to 3-4 million diehard fans in the GTA...it's no contest.

Blades 0f Steel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:02 PM
  #78
LilWinger11
 
LilWinger11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 5,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Oh no arguments LW, I totally agree. I just knew that there were 5 million people in the GTA and have been dying to tell someone about it.
You are very brave to live surrounded by so many Leaf fans

LilWinger11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:07 PM
  #79
BadHabit
Registered User
 
BadHabit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,590
vCash: 500
I don't believe this is in the best interest of the league, however, its pretty easy to see why they are doing it.

In order for hockey to grow, we need teams in the US markets to do well. Better PR, more commercials, press coverage, whatever it takes - I'm not an expert but they should have some working for the league. Instead, they talk about starting a new team in the most financially stable hockey town - and why? Revenue sharing of course.

Read this article on TSN where the Executive Director of the NHLPA tells them that revenue sharing and untapped Canadian markets are the key to the NHL's financial stability.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=2442...headlines_main

Toronto paid in $12 Million dollars last year for revenue sharing, the most in the league. The Habs were number 2 at $11.5M. Of course they aren't going to start a new team in Winnipeg - they'll do it in the safest environment possible that gives them the most revenue possible.

The 6 Canadian teams accounted for 1/3rd of the leagues profits last year, and according to the article below, there are 10-12 teams who can't afford to spend the salary cap minimum.

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/s...wspt_nhlmain11

All the league is doing is talking about putting a bandaid on the problem when in reality, the league expanded much too quickly and in markets where it wasn't feasible to do so. But it's bad press for a sport to have teams folding, so instead they want to put another Canadian team in Toronto and hope for another $12 Million dollars in revenue sharing.

It's a bad situation for the sport to be in down south, and while I don't agree with putting another team in the same city, (for reasons being that there are other cities who are also financially feasible that deserve a club more than Toronto deserves another) I'm at a loss to see how they can control the bleeding. Where they made their mistake was with the salary cap and the ever increasing league minimum and maximums. Sure it's ok for it to go up, but it has been going up like CRAZY. Obviously their formula just isn't working. And now with the Canadian dollar taking a nosedive, the Canadian clubs are again taking the hit when their revenue sharing is now equal to $14.6 Million dollars instead of being closer to par. not to mention all their player salaries that are paid in US dollars.

So now that we all know WHY they are doing it, as I said above, I am against it. If they want to bring in another Canadian team, bring one to Winnipeg, Quebec City, or Hamilton. These are cities that have FANS who love the sport and really deserve to have a team that they can support that is close by. Heck, I'd even be up for some market research in places like Halifax or Victoria - even though those places don't have as large of a population in the core of the city, they could bring in fans from the surrounding area. I know I'd drive the 2 hours or so to Halifax to watch the Habs play. (and have for preseason games) Why not give those places an opportunity before doubling up on any city? And if you're going to start another franchise in the US, why not look at places like Houston? There are HUGE hockey ties in Texas and Houston has nearly 2 Million people, more than Dallas. There's a place that would succeed - move one of the troubled teams to there and get some exposure.

BadHabit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:07 PM
  #80
Habs10Habs
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Habs10Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 52,367
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilWinger11 View Post
You are very brave to live surrounded by so many Leaf fans
lol...I carry a hockey stick with me to beat them off whenever I leave my house.

It's not as bad as it used to be. More and more I'm seeing people wearing jerseys, hats and other clothing etc.. from different NHL teams. Except for on my street, I can't throw a rock or other large object without hitting one. *Trust me I've tried*

Habs10Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:10 PM
  #81
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,057
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexMeth View Post
Because at the end of the day, Toronto is still considered a bigger hockey market than those 3 cities combined.
Maybe so, but unlike Toronto, the teams playing in those cities would be exclusive.
While the market in Toronto is bigger, is it big enough to support 2teams??

Toronto is in rebuild mode, if they do not have success in that phase, maybe they won't bring in as much money.
Look at the Habs now, remember when we had troubles a few years back???

I think there's other cities that should be thought off before Toronto. What next, Mtl with another team too?..
If we go with the principal that Toronto is a good market, the same can be said for many canadian cities currently playing.

On a general point of view, look at how amazing it is to see everybody behind one team in a city like in Mtl. I wouldn't want a 2nd team to come in and mess all of the Habs love spread throughout the city.
The same can apply for TO.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:10 PM
  #82
Boxscore
#oldNHL
 
Boxscore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: 1974-94
Posts: 5,238
vCash: 500
Would love to see a few struggling teams relocate to hockey-mad Canadian markets like Quebec, Winnipeg and Ontario.

Boxscore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:18 PM
  #83
Fido22
Registered User
 
Fido22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadHabit View Post
I don't believe this is in the best interest of the league, however, its pretty easy to see why they are doing it.

In order for hockey to grow, we need teams in the US markets to do well. Better PR, more commercials, press coverage, whatever it takes - I'm not an expert but they should have some working for the league. Instead, they talk about starting a new team in the most financially stable hockey town - and why? Revenue sharing of course.

Read this article on TSN where the Executive Director of the NHLPA tells them that revenue sharing and untapped Canadian markets are the key to the NHL's financial stability.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=2442...headlines_main

Toronto paid in $12 Million dollars last year for revenue sharing, the most in the league. The Habs were number 2 at $11.5M. Of course they aren't going to start a new team in Winnipeg - they'll do it in the safest environment possible that gives them the most revenue possible.

The 6 Canadian teams accounted for 1/3rd of the leagues profits last year, and according to the article below, there are 10-12 teams who can't afford to spend the salary cap minimum.

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/s...wspt_nhlmain11

All the league is doing is talking about putting a bandaid on the problem when in reality, the league expanded much too quickly and in markets where it wasn't feasible to do so. But it's bad press for a sport to have teams folding, so instead they want to put another Canadian team in Toronto and hope for another $12 Million dollars in revenue sharing.

It's a bad situation for the sport to be in down south, and while I don't agree with putting another team in the same city, (for reasons being that there are other cities who are also financially feasible that deserve a club more than Toronto deserves another) I'm at a loss to see how they can control the bleeding. Where they made their mistake was with the salary cap and the ever increasing league minimum and maximums. Sure it's ok for it to go up, but it has been going up like CRAZY. Obviously their formula just isn't working. And now with the Canadian dollar taking a nosedive, the Canadian clubs are again taking the hit when their revenue sharing is now equal to $14.6 Million dollars instead of being closer to par. not to mention all their player salaries that are paid in US dollars.
Interesting. You think the second TO team would be an expansion?

Fido22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:19 PM
  #84
LilWinger11
 
LilWinger11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 5,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadHabit View Post
And if you're going to start another franchise in the US, why not look at places like Houston? There are HUGE hockey ties in Texas and Houston has nearly 2 Million people, more than Dallas. There's a place that would succeed - move one of the troubled teams to there and get some exposure.
Houston intrigues me... they do have a large population down there (4th or 5th largest in the U.S., I think), and there have been some successful figure skaters from that area, which tells me they have rinks and therefore some youth hockey. At the same time, Houston has large segments of the population at or below the poverty level. I know there are some very wealthy people in the area too, but are there enough of them to support a team?

-How successful are the Aeros at selling tickets?
-How many seats does the Aeros' arena have?
-Would an NHL team require a new arena (most likely) or would adding seats to the Aeros' current arena suffice?

My other big concern with Houston is the proximity to Dallas. I think a big part of the problem in Florida is that, while the area probably could support A franchise, I don't think the interest is there to sustain both the Lightning and the Panthers; while the Stars are doing well AFAIK, I'm not sure that area has the interest level in hockey to sustain two teams within five hours of each other.

LilWinger11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:20 PM
  #85
Burty34
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 43
vCash: 500
I read pretty much all the posts and agree with some and disagree with some.

First, I don't think a new team in Ontario should be based in Toronto. The population is misleading when you think in terms of people who actually follow hockey. TO is a very multi-cultured town. A new team in Ontario should be placed in Kitchener or Hamilton. Preferably Kitchener. That area, with a one hour radius, is populated with a hockey mad fanbase. Kitchener/Waterloo area being the center of London, Guelph, Cambridge, Brantford, Midwestern Ontario, and the GTA.

Second, and this just has to deal with a team being placed in the Toronto area. For example, as a die hard fan of the Habs, if another team came into to Montreal, I would not feel obligated to cheer for them. I wouldn't be happy if they won the cup, it means that my Canadiens didn't win. Two teams battling for supremacy over the city's fanbase is great for competition and rivalry.

Third, the NHL has done a great job expanding into places where hockey was never present before. They have created many new fans and have opened up more choices for kids when they are deciding what sport they enjoy. But the bottom line is, it is a business and when there are markets that are not doing well, why not put teams in places where they will be successful?

Burty34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:26 PM
  #86
BadHabit
Registered User
 
BadHabit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,590
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
Interesting. You think the second TO team would be an expansion?
Not necessarily - but when it comes to revenue sharing, be it an expansion or a relocation it means the same thing. The teams that are having problems getting by aren't paying in to the revenue sharing program, so if it's a relocation or an expansion the result is the same.

BadHabit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:29 PM
  #87
coolguy21415
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 9,285
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
lol...I carry a hockey stick with me to beat them off whenever I leave my house.

It's not as bad as it used to be. More and more I'm seeing people wearing jerseys, hats and other clothing etc.. from different NHL teams. Except for on my street, I can't throw a rock or other large object without hitting one. *Trust me I've tried*
lol reminds me of the time I got in a minor fender bender. The guy who hit me accused me of stopping short (at a red light no less.. I guess I should have driven through) because he was a Leaf fan (both he and I had a car flag up).

__________________
This content is hosted here with the objections of the poster.
coolguy21415 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:38 PM
  #88
Fido22
Registered User
 
Fido22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadHabit View Post
Not necessarily - but when it comes to revenue sharing, be it an expansion or a relocation it means the same thing. The teams that are having problems getting by aren't paying in to the revenue sharing program, so if it's a relocation or an expansion the result is the same.
I agree, but why limit the view to revenue sharing? It's basically taking a money losing team and turning it into a money making team. Good for the league and good for the owners. I thought you meant adding an extra profitable team to help the existing troubled franchises (the aim of revenue sharing).

Fido22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:39 PM
  #89
Habs10Habs
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Habs10Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 52,367
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
lol reminds me of the time I got in a minor fender bender. The guy who hit me accused me of stopping short (at a red light no less.. I guess I should have driven through) because he was a Leaf fan (both he and I had a car flag up).
lol...that would have been fun to witness.

Habs10Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:41 PM
  #90
AlexMeth
Registered User
 
AlexMeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 659
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Maybe so, but unlike Toronto, the teams playing in those cities would be exclusive.
While the market in Toronto is bigger, is it big enough to support 2teams??

Toronto is in rebuild mode, if they do not have success in that phase, maybe they won't bring in as much money.
Look at the Habs now, remember when we had troubles a few years back???

I think there's other cities that should be thought off before Toronto. What next, Mtl with another team too?..
If we go with the principal that Toronto is a good market, the same can be said for many canadian cities currently playing.

On a general point of view, look at how amazing it is to see everybody behind one team in a city like in Mtl. I wouldn't want a 2nd team to come in and mess all of the Habs love spread throughout the city.
The same can apply for TO.
I agree that the league should consider moving struggling franchise elsewhere in the US or Canada - I'm all for that. That said, I don't doubt one second that another GTA-based team could be successful.

As much as we hate the Leafs and Toronto some people in this province (QC) and city (MTL) need to be more open-minded about T.O.

You cannot compare Toronto to other Canadian cities. It's the only Canadian city with a MLB, NBA, NHL and soon a NFL franchise. So you're theory about another Montreal-based hockey team just doesn't work because we're simply NOT like Toronto.

And unlike the struggling Habs of the late 90's and early 00's, the Leafs (even when they suck) get incredible corporate support and are still the #1 contributors to the rest of the league in terms of revenue share.

AlexMeth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:42 PM
  #91
compile
Give me Scotch!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vaughan, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,506
vCash: 483
Send a message via Skype™ to compile
What a perfect time for the NHL to WANT to sell a team to Balisle. Bunch of idiots the NHL and the owners are.
He was willing to pay Nashville owner value + prime for it, but once word got out that his intention was to move it to a more "hockey" oriented city (which being in Canada), Bettmen put a stop to it.

So now that the economy is in a state of constant flux, and RIM shares being lower then normal, they want to call Balisle to acquire a team?

If I was Jim, the second time the NHL shot me down, and then have them call me for a team...I would inquire with the NFL and what it would take to bring it to Toronto.

Bettmen has done NO GOOD for the NHL since his inception.

__________________
Originally Posted by Jeffonfire
There's no ghosts... only god exists. Luckily, he is our netminder.
compile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:45 PM
  #92
Erika
Registered User
 
Erika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ville Lasalle
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,923
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Ontario can't win with the two franchises they have, better yet Toronto can't win with the one they have, so they're going to make another. Pretty bad when your province can't even properly manage two seperate teams into being steady contenders (no I don't feel ottawa is a steady contender just because they make the playoffs, they're the laughing stock of canadian teams imo, they'll never have what it takes to win a cup with their current mentalities on building a 1 line team imo, and no, I don't consider them a 2 line team now)

But regardless of my opinions on them, the point is they're now going to add another ball into the mix to give ontario or toronto further chance to win a cup. Too bad if the new toronto team wins a cup they won't be the leafs anyways.

Not only that but, shouldn't it be illegal to make two franchises in the exact same city using the exact same arena? OK, so George Gillett or his brother in-law could go buy Nashville, a bunch of other 3rd rate teams, and move them to Montreal, then eventually we'll just have 3-5 teams per city in the NHL and it'll become more just gambling to win a cup then actually playing to win. How about Cote-St-Luc, Dollard Des Ormeaux, Pierrefonds and Lasalle all get their own team now Give me a break. As if that wouldn't be bad, making 2 in Toronto/Surrounding areas would be even more retarded.

This is ridiculous, people think adding an expansion would make them a laughing stock? Adding a 2nd team in 1 already struggling city (struggling team wise, not financially) is the most ridiculous thing I think I've heard. What makes them think the new Toronto would be so special. All they have to do is just build from within on their CURRENT Toronto.

Imo this is just Toronto propaganda this story, or dumb fans pushing for a new team cause they're bitter with the leafs being so ****.

If the NHL wants to branch out, convert current teams, heck even expand, I say take the european route. Start bringing more mainstream hockey to Europe. Convert Nashville and one other team into the first two Euro teams.

That my dear is one of the most hilarious post I've ever read...

WoW, just WOW !!

Wake up, there's nothing to do with the Ontario wanting to increase their Stanley Cup chances, but it's about Financial issues...

Anywhere in Canada would be better than places like Florida, Nashville, Atlanta and Phoenix. I would be glad if it happens... Toronto region, Hamilton, Winnpeg or whatever...



Erika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:46 PM
  #93
Fido22
Registered User
 
Fido22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
Bettmen has done NO GOOD for the NHL since his inception.
Bettman's inception



Fido22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:48 PM
  #94
AlexMeth
Registered User
 
AlexMeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 659
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
What a perfect time for the NHL to WANT to sell a team to Balisle. Bunch of idiots the NHL and the owners are.
He was willing to pay Nashville owner value + prime for it, but once word got out that his intention was to move it to a more "hockey" oriented city (which being in Canada), Bettmen put a stop to it.

So now that the economy is in a state of constant flux, and RIM shares being lower then normal, they want to call Balisle to acquire a team?

If I was Jim, the second time the NHL shot me down, and then have them call me for a team...I would inquire with the NFL and what it would take to bring it to Toronto.

Bettmen has done NO GOOD for the NHL since his inception.
Balsillie wanted to move the Preds to freakin' Hamilton. I personally don't consider Hamilton as a very marketable city (No offense to people living there). I'm pretty sure that the value of the TV rights for the Nashville Predators are greater than what Hamilton could ever be.

AlexMeth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:48 PM
  #95
Habs
Registered User
 
Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,478
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
Bettman's inception


Maybe it was immaculate?

Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:49 PM
  #96
BadHabit
Registered User
 
BadHabit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,590
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilWinger11 View Post
Houston intrigues me... they do have a large population down there (4th or 5th largest in the U.S., I think), and there have been some successful figure skaters from that area, which tells me they have rinks and therefore some youth hockey. At the same time, Houston has large segments of the population at or below the poverty level. I know there are some very wealthy people in the area too, but are there enough of them to support a team?

-How successful are the Aeros at selling tickets?
-How many seats does the Aeros' arena have?
-Would an NHL team require a new arena (most likely) or would adding seats to the Aeros' current arena suffice?

My other big concern with Houston is the proximity to Dallas. I think a big part of the problem in Florida is that, while the area probably could support A franchise, I don't think the interest is there to sustain both the Lightning and the Panthers; while the Stars are doing well AFAIK, I'm not sure that area has the interest level in hockey to sustain two teams within five hours of each other.
I don't pretend to know the answers to all of your questions, but I do know that Houston has a very large population, that Texas has more professional hockey teams than all of Canada (13 to 10), and that Dallas is doing quite well. Seems to be enough pluses for the area to at least look into it further to me, and that's all I'm really getting at.

BadHabit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:49 PM
  #97
Fido22
Registered User
 
Fido22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Maybe it was immaculate?
Bettman's immaculate inception



I like it.

Fido22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:53 PM
  #98
Kebekoi
Registered User
 
Kebekoi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Matane, QC
Country: Martinique
Posts: 1,470
vCash: 500
Choose 2-3 out of them (hockey nests)
Hamilton
Quebec
Winnipeg
Houston

Choose 2-3 out of them (teams with last 10 attendance since 2007)
Long Island
Atlanta
Phoenix
New Jersey
Florida


The aim is to have better hockey crazy markets.

Kebekoi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:58 PM
  #99
compile
Give me Scotch!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vaughan, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,506
vCash: 483
Send a message via Skype™ to compile
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexMeth View Post
Balsillie wanted to move the Preds to freakin' Hamilton. I personally don't consider Hamilton as a very marketable city (No offense to people living there). I'm pretty sure that the value of the TV rights for the Nashville Predators are greater than what Hamilton could ever be.
Balisile before he bought the Preds, tested the market in Hamilton.

They sold out season tickets in less then an hour.
Hamilton has if not mistaken a population of just under 700,000. That is a hockey market, and if it wasn't proof enough that people there are willing to pay to watch....
SEASON TICKERS WERE SOLD OUT BEFORE THERE WAS EVEN A TEAM!!

Don't know what else Balisle could do to prove that Hamilton is the next best viable location for an NHL franchise.

compile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 01:58 PM
  #100
BadHabit
Registered User
 
BadHabit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,590
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
I agree, but why limit the view to revenue sharing? It's basically taking a money losing team and turning it into a money making team. Good for the league and good for the owners. I thought you meant adding an extra profitable team to help the existing troubled franchises (the aim of revenue sharing).
Also true... now I understand where you were going with it.

I guess my point is that for the NHL it's not just about turning a relocated franchise around, because they could do that by putting a team in Winnipeg, Hamilton or Quebec City. But if they put another one in Toronto, then can also reap the rewards and money from a very successful venture and help their troubled teams as well.

Bottom line - is putting another team in Toronto helping to grow the sport? No. It's a move to help their finances and that's it.

BadHabit is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:20 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.