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Old
10-22-2008, 09:21 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
not sitting in the penalty box and being happy about beating up Milan Lucic. .
All due respect that would never happen. Lucic is heads and shoulders above Komi in terms of fighting

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Komisarek is more valuable to us on the ice...then in the penalty box
No one said he had to fight in the most crucial spot in the game. Guys like Iginla and Phaneuf fight, what?, 8 times a year. Find a few times a year when the game is pretty much decided and send a message. Even if he's in the box for 5 minutes at a mildly important spot in the game, then he misses, perhaps 2 shifts!?!? The "we cant afford to have him in the box" argument is one of the most wildly overrated in all of hockey IMO. The fact is, he's not going to be getting into fights in overtime or something where his presence is indispensable for 5 minutes.

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10-22-2008, 09:29 AM
  #27
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A) You're stretching what I wrote to fit what you think. I didn't refer to Maurice Richard, who I never saw play, as a neanderthal.
B) Re : Your reference to the first game in history. Back then, players weren't payed, weighed 135 lbs soaking wet, played, what, 7 aside?, with no forward pass. Are you suggesting that the NHL should go back to that?
C) I don't understand your second paragraph. Did you call me a hypocrite? If so, it was uncalled for. We can disagree and stay civil.
Point A and B still stands. It's not that hard to get. You call fighting Neanderthal, I say those fighters are human beings. And the Rocket was admired for these very traits. Hey maybe you're a Flower Power kind of guy and i'm fine with it. But even when Lafleur was there the best rivalries he was part of included fighting. As far as the last point, it wasn't directed at you but it was mostly a general belief that I think most people that feel that fighting in hockey is barbaric yet salivate watching boxing or MMA are hypocrits. Or lying to themselves. I would respect somebody more if that person would feel that ALL fighting was barbaric and should be banned.

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10-22-2008, 09:30 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Merlin401 View Post
All due respect that would never happen. Lucic is heads and shoulders above Komi in terms of fighting



No one said he had to fight in the most crucial spot in the game. Guys like Iginla and Phaneuf fight, what?, 8 times a year. Find a few times a year when the game is pretty much decided and send a message. Even if he's in the box for 5 minutes at a mildly important spot in the game, then he misses, perhaps 2 shifts!?!? The "we cant afford to have him in the box" argument is one of the most wildly overrated in all of hockey IMO. The fact is, he's not going to be getting into fights in overtime or something where his presence is indispensable for 5 minutes.

Its UNREAL how the ruins fans have an OBSESSION with Komi, it's kind of like that bully in school when you knew he wouldn't go away until you face him.

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10-22-2008, 09:43 AM
  #29
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I agree that Komisarek should not be fighting regularily, maybe the argument of being on the ice is slightly overstated but in big situations or tight games its certainly true that you want a guy like him on the ice.

It comes down to being willing to take a punch to give a punch, I dont think Komisarek has that. Thats why he does the hugging/wrestling thing IMO. I'm not sure if its something you can learn this late in your career. But either way Komisarek should practice scrapping with Georges, he could show him how to properly use that strength if it comes to it. But bottom line, Komisarek should not be fighting randoms, he should fight in a case like Souray v. Armstrong after the Koivu hit, or in the case of someone running Price, or a line brawl otherwise leave it to the guys who get paid to do it.

Furthermore, ideally he would leave the bigger guys to Georges. He's massive, but as a fighter he's really more of a middleweight. Ideally, he'd fight guys like Iginla, Lecavalier, maybe Fisher, Hartnell, Malone, Morrow, etc.

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10-22-2008, 09:53 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Point A and B still stands. It's not that hard to get. You call fighting Neanderthal, I say those fighters are human beings. And the Rocket was admired for these very traits. Hey maybe you're a Flower Power kind of guy and i'm fine with it. But even when Lafleur was there the best rivalries he was part of included fighting. As far as the last point, it wasn't directed at you but it was mostly a general belief that I think most people that feel that fighting in hockey is barbaric yet salivate watching boxing or MMA are hypocrits. Or lying to themselves. I would respect somebody more if that person would feel that ALL fighting was barbaric and should be banned.

Cool. Let's just agree to disagree and not take the thread further off topic.

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10-22-2008, 09:59 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Bileur View Post
I agree that Komisarek should not be fighting regularily, maybe the argument of being on the ice is slightly overstated but in big situations or tight games its certainly true that you want a guy like him on the ice.

It comes down to being willing to take a punch to give a punch, I dont think Komisarek has that. Thats why he does the hugging/wrestling thing IMO. I'm not sure if its something you can learn this late in your career. But either way Komisarek should practice scrapping with Georges, he could show him how to properly use that strength if it comes to it.
I think learning to fight would be a great idea. Whatever if he learns it from BGL or just take on boxing during the summer. Because I really think that's something he should do just for respect.


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But bottom line, Komisarek should not be fighting randoms, he should fight in a case like Souray v. Armstrong after the Koivu hit, or in the case of someone running Price, or a line brawl otherwise leave it to the guys who get paid to do it.
That would be nice if Komi would act as a defender(although in retrospect Colby was very small compared to Sourey, he almost destroyed him)



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Furthermore, ideally he would leave the bigger guys to Georges. He's massive, but as a fighter he's really more of a middleweight. Ideally, he'd fight guys like Iginla, Lecavalier, maybe Fisher, Hartnell, Malone, Morrow, etc.
Fighting Lecavalier would be a tad unfair, Komi would break him like a twig. I still think he could fight the big guys if he wanted. Even Lats dropped the gloves last year and he did great because he wasn't afraid to get hit. I always have the impression that Komi is afraid to get hit. Even when he's unbelievably superior in side and strength to his opponant, it ends up in a wrestling match like he wants to end it quickly for fear of being hit.

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10-22-2008, 10:04 AM
  #32
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Carbonneau said the other day that the don't want Komisarek to fight, unless he needs to defend a player. IMO I would let him fight in more important games against rivals, if the player on the other side is also an important player for his team ie not Lucic.

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10-22-2008, 10:11 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
I think learning to fight would be a great idea. Whatever if he learns it from BGL or just take on boxing during the summer. Because I really think that's something he should do just for respect.




That would be nice if Komi would act as a defender(although in retrospect Colby was very small compared to Sourey, he almost destroyed him)





Fighting Lecavalier would be a tad unfair, Komi would break him like a twig. I still think he could fight the big guys if he wanted. Even Lats dropped the gloves last year and he did great because he wasn't afraid to get hit. I always have the impression that Komi is afraid to get hit. Even when he's unbelievably superior in side and strength to his opponant, it ends up in a wrestling match like he wants to end it quickly for fear of being hit.

Actually IMO you are wrong here, Vinny is a pretty good boxer and might give Komi a run for his money.

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10-22-2008, 10:46 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Merlin401 View Post
All due respect that would never happen. Lucic is heads and shoulders above Komi in terms of fighting



No one said he had to fight in the most crucial spot in the game. Guys like Iginla and Phaneuf fight, what?, 8 times a year. Find a few times a year when the game is pretty much decided and send a message. Even if he's in the box for 5 minutes at a mildly important spot in the game, then he misses, perhaps 2 shifts!?!? The "we cant afford to have him in the box" argument is one of the most wildly overrated in all of hockey IMO. The fact is, he's not going to be getting into fights in overtime or something where his presence is indispensable for 5 minutes.
You don't fight just for the fun of it, you fight to send a message. Komisarek fought 5 times last season, more than Chara and a lot of other physical defensemen in the league. All of the to send a message, change momentum. What I find annoying is that the Bruins fans want Komisarek to fight Lucic (a young third line player who only fought as much as he did last season to prove himself and I'm willing to wager that he won't fight nearly as much this season). The thing is the way the Habs play the Bruins, there is no message to send, there is no need to shift momentum. Of the last 9 regular season games between the two teams, we scored the first two goals 7 times. Fighting will only bring momentum to the other team. Chara plays physical and he only fought 4 times last season. There is a distinct pattern when he fights, the Bruins aren't winning. I'm sure this is the case when Iggy and Phaneuf fight as well.

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10-22-2008, 10:53 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
Oh the drama


How long have you been waiting to unload this ridiculous tirade? I think you missed the NYR game where we applauded Frankie Bou for standing up to Orr, or all the times Kosto took a beating for his team, or when Komi dropped the mitts against Hartnell.

But don't let that get in the way of your nonsensical whining. Ape-like indeed.
The truth shocks doesn't it...

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10-22-2008, 11:12 AM
  #36
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Man, I can't believe how much this board has changed. Last year, we didn't have any heavyweight and therefor weren't glorifying fights and violence, always downplaying its important and so on...

Now that BGL is with the team, it's seems were turning into ape-like supporters wanting to send BGL on a head-hunting and sizing every prospect and players on their fighting skills.

What's with that? So other fans were right last year when they said the only reason why we didn't talk about fights or the importance of them was because we didn't have any fighter? That's called hypocrisy...

I like having BGL on the team, but in no way I'll glorify fighting in no shape or form...
Who's sizing every prospect and players on their fighting skills?

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10-22-2008, 11:20 AM
  #37
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As for people separating fighting in hockey with boxing and martial arts it's damn hypocrit.
How is it hypocritical....

The point of fighting and mixed martial arts is to be better than your opponent by using fighting technique and strength.

The point of hockey is to score more goals than the other team.

If you'd rather win the fight and lose the game... well then perhaps the habs board isn't for you... you might want to check out the bruins board.

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10-22-2008, 11:34 AM
  #38
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I'll echo the sentiment of some of the posters in this thread. Komisarek is the strongest Hab, but he's just an all-right fighter. He never developed that skill growing up and in college and it just doesn't come naturally to him. Earlier in his career, Chara was also a bad fighter, but he learned over time and is now pretty dominate.

The other factor is, Carbo is probably telling him not to fight. It's not worth losing him for 5+minutes and it's also not worth the risk of him injuring himself.

Would I like him to pummel a guy like Lucic? Sure. But right now Lucic is a better fighter and the talent tradeoff is strongly in the Bruin's favour. Plus, a Lucic/Komisarek fight has more potential to be a momentum changer in the Bruin's favour. If Lucic wants to fight a Hab so much, he can go tap Laraque on the shoulder. It shouldn't happen, for the same reasons Komisarek shouldn't fight Lucic.

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10-22-2008, 12:44 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
I'll echo the sentiment of some of the posters in this thread. Komisarek is the strongest Hab, but he's just an all-right fighter. He never developed that skill growing up and in college and it just doesn't come naturally to him. Earlier in his career, Chara was also a bad fighter, but he learned over time and is now pretty dominate.

The other factor is, Carbo is probably telling him not to fight. It's not worth losing him for 5+minutes and it's also not worth the risk of him injuring himself.

Would I like him to pummel a guy like Lucic? Sure. But right now Lucic is a better fighter and the talent tradeoff is strongly in the Bruin's favour. Plus, a Lucic/Komisarek fight has more potential to be a momentum changer in the Bruin's favour. If Lucic wants to fight a Hab so much, he can go tap Laraque on the shoulder. It shouldn't happen, for the same reasons Komisarek shouldn't fight Lucic.

Great points, plus wouldn't everyone say that Komi is a better hockey player than Lucy ? So what, who gives a **** that Lucy is better fighter ? It's called hockey and who wouldn't be happy to be called the better HOCKEY player.

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