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Old
10-21-2008, 08:27 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Brass View Post
Pepepepepe Peper! pEpper PervozéGin Parzovagwine Peppepepe eppepe *cough* Perzégovin Non merci , a toi alain
Good one!

I'd like to see him back, but I would also like to see a good attitude from him for once.

We don't need a third liner that takes bad penalties, that's lazy and think he is Kovalev.
But we would need the other Perezhogin, the one lightning fast, good hands.
And now he would play with good players.

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10-21-2008, 09:13 AM
  #77
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Can we hope to see him back. I believe Montreal holds his NHL rights but I'm not sure. I don't think he'd be FA if he was playing in the NHL. I always thought that guy had amazing skills, it's a loss he went to Russia.

I don't see hik coming back to Montreal while Carbo is here, however I'd like to see him traded for a draft pick to a team that has room and can lure him back. I think he can be a better NHLer than Grabovsky, more physical and better defensively.

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10-21-2008, 09:18 AM
  #78
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I'd take him back in a heartbeat.

Nobody can blame him for going back to Russia. He didn't have a contract with us and got alot more money to play there than he would have made here.

He's a guy with alot of skill and was always good on the forecheck. I'd easily welcome him back but i dont see it ever happening. With the success he's having in the KHL, he will surely get good money to stay...better money than the Habs will ever give him to come back here.
I agree, I don't see how he can be blamed for taking a huge pay raise to go work at home. He was looking at something around 700K from the Habs I'd guess since he was making only 650K or so off the top of my head and hadn't really done anything to get much of a raise other then the required 10% based on the amount of his previous contract, so he gets an offer of 3.4M for 2 years which in Canada would be much more since the tax is very low over there compared to very high over here.

In fact he turned down a contract in Russia to play for his former team Omsk, but then Salavat came up with the big money so imo he would be foolish to turn that down.

As for him coming back, I don't know why Hab fans get so upset, if he were to come back and helps the team then good for us, or if he can be turned into another asset, then great. I have heard that he said he won't sign any contracts until the season is over, so it will be interesting to see what happens to him when the season is over, as the leading scorer of his team last year and this year, I am sure he will get a nice offer in Russia but if he expresses interests in coming back to the NHL, then he might be a good asset as a throw in as some team might have interest in a skilled player that is among the top scorers in the KHL. So until he signs in Russia and says he won't come back to the NHL, then I'll continue to be excited over his good play.

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10-21-2008, 09:19 AM
  #79
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This has to be one of the worst analysis' of experience/talent/skill/role I have seen on this board.

I mean seriously... are you saying that Plekanec and Richards have the same role on their teams? Smolinski and Carter? Lapierre and Dowd?

If you cannot see hat Montreal's problem for the past 10 years has been size down the middle...
What a dumb comment. So if they add 3-4 Bonk's, Kilger's and Lang's suddenly their lack of skill up front and on defense would have disapeared and they wouldn't have needed miraculous goaltending to make the playoffs(see Theodore's Hart season).

How the hell does size at center make you dramatically better? Toronto has had 230lbs Sundin and missed the playoffs every year since the lock out. San Jose has Marleau and Thornton and are notorous playoff underachievers. A ton of the best centermen of all time have been under 6' and 200lbs...Gretzky Dionne Perreault Hawerchuk Crosby...

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Old
10-21-2008, 09:50 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
People on here often talk about Perezhogin the myth, rather than Perezhogin the man. Perezhogin the myth never took bad penalties, was head and shoulders above everyone else on Hamilton & got a raw deal from Carbo. Perezhogin the man looked more and more like he would turn into a skilled 3rd liner.

Remember the other threads people made in 2007, praying for his return as if he would ignite the Habs & be able to step right into the top line? Those people must have had him confused with A.Kost.
This deserves the Kid Street Clap

The first paragraph of this post is the perfect summary of the Perezhogin debate here on HF. I commend you on a job well done.

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10-21-2008, 10:06 AM
  #81
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I would enjoy seeing him back with us. But I doubt it happens. I liked his game so much

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10-21-2008, 10:29 AM
  #82
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Oh hypocrisy ur always around aren't you?

Latendresse plays with 3rd liners everyone points out that he's playing with 3rd - 4th liners and that's why he hasn't been producing he needs to play with offensive guys

Perezhogin plays with 3rd liners and ppl say he had no upside anyways... he didn't have a contract someone throws 3 million at him to play at home and he was supposed to accept montreal's 700K canadian taxable btw... u gotta be kidding

damn you bums and ur freaking double standards

p.s. u work in a company in canada, they are offering you a 65,000K job to work as a manager of whatever. someone in the united arab emirates offers you 150K non taxable... really man... really to do the same job? and the beauty of you accepting to go the the U.A.E. is that it's not even your home. Imagine if u were in the u.s. with the 65,000K offer and were told to come back home to the good ol' north for non taxable 150K... u would jump on that like white on rice

learn to put urself in other people's shoes

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10-21-2008, 10:52 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Ape Clutch View Post
Oh hypocrisy ur always around aren't you?

Latendresse plays with 3rd liners everyone points out that he's playing with 3rd - 4th liners and that's why he hasn't been producing he needs to play with offensive guys

Perezhogin plays with 3rd liners and ppl say he had no upside anyways... he didn't have a contract someone throws 3 million at him to play at home and he was supposed to accept montreal's 700K canadian taxable btw... u gotta be kidding

damn you bums and ur freaking double standards

p.s. u work in a company in canada, they are offering you a 65,000K job to work as a manager of whatever. someone in the united arab emirates offers you 150K non taxable... really man... really to do the same job? and the beauty of you accepting to go the the U.A.E. is that it's not even your home. Imagine if u were in the u.s. with the 65,000K offer and were told to come back home to the good ol' north for non taxable 150K... u would jump on that like white on rice

learn to put urself in other people's shoes
Most people aren't going to fault Perezhogin for making the choice he did. I certainly don't. The problem is when people give out the 3rd line excuse for Perez, without recognizing that he didn't earn a spot in the top 6 with his play. Lats is a great example. He has toughed it out on the 3rd/4th lines, getting the odd sniff at a role as a top 6 guy. He hadn't earned the right to stay up there until recently, mainly because he has improved in his main areas of weakness (speed, positioning, defensive awareness). There's still a great chance that he finds himself down on the third line if this team gets healthy, but I would wager to say that he would see this not as a personal insult, but as an invitation to get better. Part of rising through the ranks is not just having potential and talent, it's capitalizing on your opportunities and working hard to learn from your failures.

Most of our players started out on lower lines and worked their way up (A. Kost, S. Kost, Komi, Higgins, Lats, Pleks are all proof of this). The Habs organization is patient with youngsters, but doesn't deny them promotion if it is earned. This is not a franchise that is going to throw away young talent with potential.

Perezhogin made a prudent financial and personal choice in going to Russia to earn more money and play closer to home. However, in doing so, he left behind an opportunity to rise through the ranks in Montreal. I don't fault him for his choice, and am happy for his success in the KHL. However, I'm definitely willing to say that having a good season in Russia doesn't make him a default top 6 winger in the NHL. That is something that is not granted based on talent, potential and draft position alone; it is something that's earned through hard work, discipline and addressing your own weaknesses as a player.

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Old
10-21-2008, 10:59 AM
  #84
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If he makes that much money playing in Russia....why would he come back? Are we or any other team really going to match what the Russian team is offering him? I wouldn't mind giving him a shot again, but then he left for more money and be closer to home.....why would he again take less money and be far from home?

And then if he didn't like Carbo too much....he won't be coming back. Now should we trade him? Maybe so but that's typically another thread starter for the next 10 years....we better have a great return and despite the stats he's having now, I still don't see a better return than what he could bring to a team.....

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10-21-2008, 11:32 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
As for him coming back, I don't know why Hab fans get so upset, if he were to come back and helps the team then good for us, or if he can be turned into another asset, then great. I have heard that he said he won't sign any contracts until the season is over, so it will be interesting to see what happens to him when the season is over, as the leading scorer of his team last year and this year, I am sure he will get a nice offer in Russia but if he expresses interests in coming back to the NHL, then he might be a good asset as a throw in as some team might have interest in a skilled player that is among the top scorers in the KHL. So until he signs in Russia and says he won't come back to the NHL, then I'll continue to be excited over his good play.
I don't see too many people that are upset, just mildly annoyed. Some people seem fit to point to his accomplishments in another league as if to say "surely he would put us over the top". He's a solid player, but IMO if he were to return he'd still be a prospect. I'd put him behind D'Agostini, Maxwell & Pacioretty as far as forward depth goes.

I am glad that he's doing well in the KHL, perhaps he can sweeten the pot in a deal this year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle_Odelein View Post
This deserves the Kid Street Clap

The first paragraph of this post is the perfect summary of the Perezhogin debate here on HF. I commend you on a job well done.
Thanks, it never ceases to amaze me how people can build up players that, in all likelihood, wouldn't even have a place on our current roster anyway. Sure, he has skill, but he's not so talented that he could displace anyone in our top 9 so talking him up is moot.


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Originally Posted by Ape Clutch View Post
Oh hypocrisy ur always around aren't you?

Latendresse plays with 3rd liners everyone points out that he's playing with 3rd - 4th liners and that's why he hasn't been producing he needs to play with offensive guys

Perezhogin plays with 3rd liners and ppl say he had no upside anyways... he didn't have a contract someone throws 3 million at him to play at home and he was supposed to accept montreal's 700K canadian taxable btw... u gotta be kidding

damn you bums and ur freaking double standards
I think they call that a red herring.

It's not a double standard, and I'll tell you why. It's understood that Latendresse has a high upside, and has a long way to go in order to become a complete NHL player. The 3rd line argument was meant to show that he did in fact have talent, but he had deficiencies & pairing him with slow players only exploited those faults. He was/is quite young, & hadn't had time to properly adapt to the pro game.

Perezhogin, however, had speed to burn. He had a solid 2-way game. He was most certainly not floundering on the 3rd line. He's got talent, a great shot, and perhaps he would have done well on the top line. From what I've seen though, in both Montreal & Hamilton, he wasn't good enough to be a 1st liner.

If you still want to say that's hypocritical, that's fine. The bottom line is that people were right when they said that about Latendresse, & with Perezhogin...you can say that about just about every highly touted prospect. You wouldn't be right very often though.


Last edited by Blades 0f Steel: 10-21-2008 at 11:50 AM.
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Old
10-21-2008, 11:34 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
I agree, I don't see how he can be blamed for taking a huge pay raise to go work at home. He was looking at something around 700K from the Habs I'd guess since he was making only 650K or so off the top of my head and hadn't really done anything to get much of a raise other then the required 10% based on the amount of his previous contract, so he gets an offer of 3.4M for 2 years which in Canada would be much more since the tax is very low over there compared to very high over here.

In fact he turned down a contract in Russia to play for his former team Omsk, but then Salavat came up with the big money so imo he would be foolish to turn that down.

As for him coming back, I don't know why Hab fans get so upset, if he were to come back and helps the team then good for us, or if he can be turned into another asset, then great. I have heard that he said he won't sign any contracts until the season is over, so it will be interesting to see what happens to him when the season is over, as the leading scorer of his team last year and this year, I am sure he will get a nice offer in Russia but if he expresses interests in coming back to the NHL, then he might be a good asset as a throw in as some team might have interest in a skilled player that is among the top scorers in the KHL. So until he signs in Russia and says he won't come back to the NHL, then I'll continue to be excited over his good play.
Agreed... There is no negatives to him playing well in Russia.... As long as we own his rights there is no negatives to him improving his stock as a potential asset.

Perhaps he never comes back... we lose nothing.

But if he does he could either be a player for us or trade bait.

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10-21-2008, 11:44 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle_Odelein View Post
Most people aren't going to fault Perezhogin for making the choice he did. I certainly don't. The problem is when people give out the 3rd line excuse for Perez, without recognizing that he didn't earn a spot in the top 6 with his play. Lats is a great example. He has toughed it out on the 3rd/4th lines, getting the odd sniff at a role as a top 6 guy. He hadn't earned the right to stay up there until recently, mainly because he has improved in his main areas of weakness (speed, positioning, defensive awareness). There's still a great chance that he finds himself down on the third line if this team gets healthy, but I would wager to say that he would see this not as a personal insult, but as an invitation to get better. Part of rising through the ranks is not just having potential and talent, it's capitalizing on your opportunities and working hard to learn from your failures.

Most of our players started out on lower lines and worked their way up (A. Kost, S. Kost, Komi, Higgins, Lats, Pleks are all proof of this). The Habs organization is patient with youngsters, but doesn't deny them promotion if it is earned. This is not a franchise that is going to throw away young talent with potential.

Perezhogin made a prudent financial and personal choice in going to Russia to earn more money and play closer to home. However, in doing so, he left behind an opportunity to rise through the ranks in Montreal. I don't fault him for his choice, and am happy for his success in the KHL. However, I'm definitely willing to say that having a good season in Russia doesn't make him a default top 6 winger in the NHL. That is something that is not granted based on talent, potential and draft position alone; it is something that's earned through hard work, discipline and addressing your own weaknesses as a player.
See, I'm not arguing against reasoned arguments like yours, It was more against "Perezhogin was only a 3rd liner at best" or "He doesn't have heart he couldn't tough it out in a foreign country" and so on.

I do believe he had earned the right to atleast get a proper chance because he had been playing very well on the 3rd line.

Anyways him being good in Russia doesn't make him a top 6 forward but at his young age I think people were just not patient enough with him while in montreal, and are even worse with him now that he's gone. Much like people hate Ribs now that he isn't a hab and theodore and huet etc. (once again it's some ppl not everyone...)

Also Pleky didn't earn his 2nd line job he was given the opportunity to fill in. He did (last year anyways) earn his first line job. Sure young players have to "earn" their spot on the top 6 lines, but they have to be given that opportunity.

I would like you cite the Latendresse example. Higgins is injured, Lats takes his place and does well, if Higgins comes back Lats is still with Koivu because he's been doing well. The opposite happened to Perezhogin when Zednik was injured and came back even though Perez like Lats had been doing well with Koivu.

So yeah Perez had not earned his 2nd line spot like Lats (so far) has or A. Kost or Pleky... but he wasn't given the opportunity to do it either.

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10-21-2008, 11:45 AM
  #88
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Personally I would love to see him back here but I doubt it happens.. I think he is one of the best players not playing in the NHL, it would be sad to lose his rights for nothing..

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10-21-2008, 11:47 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Ape Clutch View Post
I would like you cite the Latendresse example. Higgins is injured, Lats takes his place and does well, if Higgins comes back Lats is still with Koivu because he's been doing well. The opposite happened to Perezhogin when Zednik was injured and came back even though Perez like Lats had been doing well with Koivu.
We don't know this yet.

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10-21-2008, 11:52 AM
  #90
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Personally I would love to see him back here but I doubt it happens.. I think he is one of the best players not playing in the NHL, it would be sad to lose his rights for nothing..
so is Yashin.

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10-21-2008, 11:55 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
I don't see too many people that are upset, just mildly annoyed. Some people seem fit to point to his accomplishments in another league as if to say "surely he would put us over the top". He's a solid player, but IMO if he were to return he'd still be a prospect. I'd put him behind D'Agostini, Maxwell & Pacioretty as far as forward depth goes.

I am glad that he's doing well in the KHL, perhaps he can sweeten the pot in a deal this year.




Thanks, it never ceases to amaze me how people can build up players that, in all likelihood, wouldn't even have a place on our current roster anyway. Sure, he has skill, but he's not so talented that he could displace anyone in our top 9 so talking him up is moot.




I think they call that a red herring.

It's not a double standard, and I'll tell you why. It's understood that Latendresse has a high upside, and has a long way to go in order to become a complete NHL player. The 3rd line argument was meant to show that he did in fact have talent, but he had deficiencies & pairing him with slow players only exploited those faults. He was/is quite young, & hadn't had time to properly adapt to the pro game.

Perezhogin, however, had speed to burn. He had a solid 2-way game. He was most certainly not floundering on the 3rd line. He's got talent, a great shot, and perhaps he would have done well on the top line. From what I've seen though, in both Montreal & Hamilton, he wasn't good enough to be a 1st liner.

If you still want to say that's hypocritical, that's fine.
I wasn't targeting anyone specifically iirc... anyways you can say what you want about Perezhogin, but no one saw Pleky as a 1st or 2nd liner, no one saw Higgins as more then a 3rd liner (some still don't... yes that is targeted @ someone with no malicious intent) no one saw Markov being his good (called it) people were saying Komisarek was a 5th D at best when he started, some said Gui was not going to be a Top 6 Forward (all he ever lacked was speed and a mean streak) the list goes on.

All these guys had time to show us different, Perezhogin didn't have the time, sure he made a good financial decision in going to play at home, but that doesn't mean that now you (and not specifically you blades of steel but certain habs "fans") throw him under a bus and ride roughshod over his character, talent etc...

And why do we even want to put limit on our prospect's potentials? ***** I hope everyone becomes a #1D and 1st liner... so much rosier that way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
We don't know this yet.
I thought Guy said Higgins was coming back with Lang and S. Kost?


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10-21-2008, 12:07 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Ape Clutch View Post
I wasn't targeting anyone specifically iirc... anyways you can say what you want about Perezhogin, but no one saw Pleky as a 1st or 2nd liner, no one saw Higgins as more then a 3rd liner (some still don't... yes that is targeted @ someone with no malicious intent) no one saw Markov being his good (called it) people were saying Komisarek was a 5th D at best when he started, some said Gui was not going to be a Top 6 Forward (all he ever lacked was speed and a mean streak) the list goes on.

All these guys had time to show us different, Perezhogin didn't have the time, sure he made a good financial decision in going to play at home, but that doesn't mean that now you (and not specifically you blades of steel but certain habs "fans") throw him under a bus and ride roughshod over his character, talent etc...

And why do we even want to put limit on our prospect's potentials? ***** I hope everyone becomes a #1D and 1st liner... so much rosier that way
I can't control what other people say but I've always pegged Perezhogin as a 2nd liner, I said Pleks & Higgins were keepers for their intangibles.

Perezhogin, apart from being pretty decent defensively, didn't show too many intangibles. I look at the players that were traded, & the ones that got away...I have to say I agree with Bob & Guy. No complaints. Just like Ribeiro. He can put up as many points as he pleases in Dallas, he's not missed.

People wonder why Lapierre was kept around when Bob Gainey has a history of moving guys after training camp. They're able to tell which guys are going to give it their all for the CH.

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10-21-2008, 02:52 PM
  #93
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I think he is in the RSL to stay.
Moi too..

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10-21-2008, 04:47 PM
  #94
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Another goal today, bringing him up to...
GP G A Pts
19 14 3 17

He is still second in goal scoring behind the freak Yan Marek who has 18. Nice to see a pure goal scorer flourish instead of being forced into some stifling role with grinders on a 3rd line.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 10-21-2008 at 05:57 PM. Reason: Stick to the topic.
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10-21-2008, 07:22 PM
  #95
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I can't see him coming back

He was good enough to make the team, but not good enough that he was a huge loss. He was probably smart to take the big payday in Russia.

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10-21-2008, 08:26 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Ape Clutch View Post
Oh hypocrisy ur always around aren't you?

Latendresse plays with 3rd liners everyone points out that he's playing with 3rd - 4th liners and that's why he hasn't been producing he needs to play with offensive guys

Perezhogin plays with 3rd liners and ppl say he had no upside anyways... he didn't have a contract someone throws 3 million at him to play at home and he was supposed to accept montreal's 700K canadian taxable btw... u gotta be kidding

damn you bums and ur freaking double standards

p.s. u work in a company in canada, they are offering you a 65,000K job to work as a manager of whatever. someone in the united arab emirates offers you 150K non taxable... really man... really to do the same job? and the beauty of you accepting to go the the U.A.E. is that it's not even your home. Imagine if u were in the u.s. with the 65,000K offer and were told to come back home to the good ol' north for non taxable 150K... u would jump on that like white on rice

learn to put urself in other people's shoes
I agree with you but not when applying it to being an NHL player

playin in the NHL when your that age is better than playin anywhere else for what ever money

If he was trying to improve his game, and had the dream to play in the NHL then he stays for what ever money he gets till he shows he deserves more.

Lats will not leave for the KHL if the habs don't give him an inflated salary ehen he renegotiates....

edit: also lats scored 16 goals per season so far. How many goals did Perezhogin score? with all his icetime, and without lookin i bet he averaged about 2-3 minutes more than lats before this season.



edit: i would like to add

so far i would have to say that perezhogin is a good 2way forward with speed. That is capable of playing on a 3rd line on an NHL team.

But i would also have to say that he hasn't shown much interest in being an NHL'er. He wants money above all else. Combine the fact that he is a russian/left the NHL for the KHL already/not a team player/non physical/Heart is not in the NHL/not a game breaker, with all the above good atributes and you have a guy that is not a safe good option. He probably has improved over there but i still think he will stay there.


Last edited by Toro: 10-21-2008 at 08:49 PM.
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10-22-2008, 10:05 AM
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Kimota
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The Thread that keeps on coming!

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10-22-2008, 01:00 PM
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The Thread that keeps on coming!
Yea why would we want to talk about a player we own the rights to that's among the top goal scorers in his respective league.

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10-22-2008, 01:17 PM
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Yea why would we want to talk about a player we own the rights to that's among the top goal scorers in his respective league.
Where's the Korneev thread? I have no problem with threads about overseas prospects. What I do have a problem with is constantly starting/bumping threads about this one guy when(usually) things are going bad for the Habs, as if to say the guys we have now can't measure up to a guy that puts up big numbers in a completely different league.

These threads aren't really a discussion about his skills or an honest assessment of his development, they're more so complaints about how he was handled & hypothetical situations where he'd tear up the NHL. It denigrates to the point of putting down one or two players in order to build him up. You're going to see this thread bumped, or another created, when one or more of our wingers start slumping. That is what people have a problem with.

It wasn't just teachy mcteachington either.


Last edited by Blades 0f Steel: 10-22-2008 at 01:27 PM.
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10-22-2008, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
Where's the Korneev thread? I have no problem with threads about overseas prospects. What I do have a problem with is constantly starting/bumping threads about this one guy when(usually) things are going bad for the Habs, as if to say the guys we have now can't measure up to a guy that puts up big numbers in a completely different league.

These threads aren't really a discussion about his skills or an honest assessment of his development, they're more so complaints about how he was handled & hypothetical situations where he'd tear up the NHL. It denigrates to the point of putting down one or two players in order to build him up. You're going to see this thread bumped, or another created, when one or more of our wingers start slumping. That is what people have a problem with.

It wasn't just teachy mcteachington either.

You got 2 hands right? Start a freaking Korneev thread then no ones stopping you. My point is that we own the rights to Perezhogin and he's one of the top goal scorers in the KHL, so there's no harm in discussing it. You'll see me post in just about any Perezhogin thread, yet you won't see me bashing the team, Carbo, Perezhogin, KHL, big pay raise, global warming, financial crisis, tight underwear, bad drivers, etc...

I cheer for Perezhogin because we own his rights, so until otherwise I see no reason why there can't be a thread about him, don't like, don't read it or post in it. It's very simple.

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