HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Holmgren shopping for "immediate relief"

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-24-2008, 05:23 PM
  #26
Ri hards
Registered User
 
Ri hards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post

I'd like to buy an "M" for the thread title.
I find this photo....disturbing. Something about the uncomfortable smile on the frat-boy.

Ri hards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2008, 05:52 PM
  #27
claude boivin lives
flat out spectacular
 
claude boivin lives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 2,845
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Hole Sun View Post
I find this photo....disturbing. Something about the uncomfortable smile on the frat-boy.
I think Sajack is the one who looks uncomfortable. It looks to me like they're watching Vanna White undress...and the frat boy is smirking, like "this is awesome", while Sajack is like, "What is that tramp doing? We're on national tv here."

On a side note, while searching for that image...I came across this Wheel of Fortune goodness, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_9-6Xs6lp4

claude boivin lives is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2008, 07:27 PM
  #28
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepOrange View Post
There maybe be a few options because of injuries. Because of Demitra going down, maybe Homer would move a forward for Bieksa.

I've been calling for the Flyers to trade for Pavelec for a while, but I still doubt it will happen (even with those rumors).
Pavelec would be a great fit here. I don't think Atlanta is in any rush to trade him though and I could see them asking for one of our top prospects back. I'm very iffy on giving up a Giroux, JVR, or Nodl for Pavelec.

As for trade bait on the team, I'm still of the opinion that out of our forward group that Knuble, Hartnell and Upshall are the most movable of the group. Can't see Lupul being moved because he has great chemistry with Richards.

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2008, 08:15 PM
  #29
mm6492
Registered User
 
mm6492's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Pavelec would be a great fit here. I don't think Atlanta is in any rush to trade him though and I could see them asking for one of our top prospects back. I'm very iffy on giving up a Giroux, JVR, or Nodl for Pavelec.

As for trade bait on the team, I'm still of the opinion that out of our forward group that Knuble, Hartnell and Upshall are the most movable of the group. Can't see Lupul being moved because he has great chemistry with Richards.
upshall's chemistry with carter is more then or at least equal to lupuls with richards. Lupul does not even play with him all the time. I love the way upshall compliemnts Carter, there speed benefits each other and they have a good connection

mm6492 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2008, 08:18 PM
  #30
pelts35.com
Registered User
 
pelts35.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 11,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Pavelec would be a great fit here. I don't think Atlanta is in any rush to trade him though and I could see them asking for one of our top prospects back. I'm very iffy on giving up a Giroux, JVR, or Nodl for Pavelec.

As for trade bait on the team, I'm still of the opinion that out of our forward group that Knuble, Hartnell and Upshall are the most movable of the group. Can't see Lupul being moved because he has great chemistry with Richards.
If they are indeed looking for a goaltender, I would like to see them get someone who has proven themself at the NHL level and not someone in their second professional season. Pavelec may turn out to be a good NHL'er, but, for now, his pedigree is no better than Niittymaki's after he won a Calder Cup (Niitty's pedigree might have been a bit higher since he was MVP of the playoffs too).

But, as you say, Atlanta is in no rush to trade him, especially given how injury prone Kari Lehtonen has been.

That said, at this stage of the season, it seems highly unlikely that they could make a trade for a significant upgrade in net.

pelts35.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2008, 08:18 PM
  #31
mm6492
Registered User
 
mm6492's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,518
vCash: 500
although lupul and richie have a great connection also. I hope stevens keeps this together

Gagne-briere
lupul-richards
upshall-carter

and just mess with the other wings. those people all have good connections IMO

mm6492 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2008, 08:29 PM
  #32
Reaper45
Registered User
 
Reaper45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: South Bay
Country: United States
Posts: 30,751
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Reaper45
Just overpay for Tom Preissing.

Reaper45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2008, 08:40 PM
  #33
silver surfer
Registered User
 
silver surfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 298
vCash: 50
all we need is a better defensive coach...we miss terry murray...terribly...

silver surfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2008, 08:57 PM
  #34
Reaper45
Registered User
 
Reaper45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: South Bay
Country: United States
Posts: 30,751
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Reaper45
Quote:
Originally Posted by silver surfer View Post
all we need is a better defensive coach...we miss terry murray...terribly...
He's definately helped the Kings.

Reaper45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2008, 09:20 PM
  #35
lancer247
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,012
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I'd rather just sit on it and deal with it than to do something stupid where it costs us down the road.
yeah, i agree. we're only in october for christ's sake.

i would do a smaller deal involving draft picks for a veteran to help settle things down for the younger players but also someone with some bite...our goalies were run into about 10 times in the SJ games...devries or jason smith type...

what would it take to get someone like beauchemin???

lancer247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2008, 09:23 PM
  #36
ELab2
Registered User
 
ELab2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Atlantic City
Country: United States
Posts: 5,348
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Banker View Post
yeah, i agree. we're only in october for christ's sake.

i would do a smaller deal involving draft picks for a veteran to help settle things down for the younger players but also someone with some bite...our goalies were run into about 10 times in the SJ games...devries or jason smith type...

what would it take to get someone like beauchemin???
Beauchemin isn't that big at all and he's not that good.

ELab2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2008, 09:44 PM
  #37
TheOtherSide
Registered User
 
TheOtherSide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,527
vCash: 500
niittymaki, giroux, and a 1st in 2009

for Kaberle and Toskala

TheOtherSide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2008, 10:23 PM
  #38
facey
Registered User
 
facey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger73549 View Post
Also shopping for a goalie? I knew this would happen soon.

EDIT: Just trade Lupul + for Jay-Bo and re-sign him longterm.

This season may be tough to get back into, but I will be a happy fan with we can keep Carter and land Jay-Bo.

Timonen-Coburn
Bouwmeester-Vaanenen
Eminger-Alberts

Trade Jones and insert Parent for Alberts so I can finally feel good about this D.
give your head a shake, Jay is a first liner ANYWHERE in the nhl, accept for Anaheim... and they would just role 3 guys and tell everyone else to sit down...lol


he plays half a game, and is sooooooo friggin good... the guy would have norris's if he wasn't in florida... just like people were sayin bobby lou would be winning vezina's once he was outta there...

facey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2008, 10:36 PM
  #39
six sigma
Seahawks/Flyers
 
six sigma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,899
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Halak+ for Gagne
Maybe, if the "+" is Komisarek.

I tend to agree with gkj here, I hope Holmy doesn't get bent over by another team by making a desperation trade.

six sigma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2008, 10:45 PM
  #40
IrishSniper87
Registered User
 
IrishSniper87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Media, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by facey View Post
give your head a shake, Jay is a first liner ANYWHERE in the nhl, accept for Anaheim... and they would just role 3 guys and tell everyone else to sit down...lol


he plays half a game, and is sooooooo friggin good... the guy would have norris's if he wasn't in florida... just like people were sayin bobby lou would be winning vezina's once he was outta there...
Yeah, so roll

Jay-Bo - Vaananen
Timonen - Coburn
Eminger - Parent/Alberts

instead

Jeez, the point is Jay-bo plays a lot and Timonen-Coburn stay together and then the Flyers have 2 AWESOME D-Pairings.

IrishSniper87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2008, 10:50 PM
  #41
mercury
Registered User
 
mercury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: South Philly/SoCal
Country: United States
Posts: 11,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mm6492 View Post
although lupul and richie have a great connection also. I hope stevens keeps this together

Gagne-briere
lupul-richards
upshall-carter

and just mess with the other wings. those people all have good connections IMO
I'd like to see Hartnell with Gagne and Briere.

mercury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2008, 10:58 PM
  #42
lancer247
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,012
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
Beauchemin isn't that big at all and he's not that good.
yeah, he isn't that big but he plays with an edge and won't play patty cakes with a guy in the crease or runnignhis goalie...guys like beauch and bieksa aren't huge (both @ 6'1" 210lbs) but play a physical game..

beauch isn't great but is a solid 2nd pairing dman

lancer247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2008, 12:32 AM
  #43
Norm MacDonald
Registered User
 
Norm MacDonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
If they are indeed looking for a goaltender, I would like to see them get someone who has proven themself at the NHL level and not someone in their second professional season. Pavelec may turn out to be a good NHL'er, but, for now, his pedigree is no better than Niittymaki's after he won a Calder Cup (Niitty's pedigree might have been a bit higher since he was MVP of the playoffs too).

But, as you say, Atlanta is in no rush to trade him, especially given how injury prone Kari Lehtonen has been.

That said, at this stage of the season, it seems highly unlikely that they could make a trade for a significant upgrade in net.
Niitty did have a good pedigree before coming into the league. However, there are a lot of factors to take into account when evaluating whether a goalie can be a consistent starter in the NHL.

I would argue that the most important factor when looking for a starting goalie is not pure talent, but mental stability. There is so much goaltending talent in the league that backups can go on hotstreaks and outplay Brodeur, but a week later they fall from their pedestal back to mediocrity. The raw "talent" is there in guys like Niittymaki as we see from his flexibility and reaction time. However, he doesn't have the mindset to be a starter in the NHL as he will be hot and cold too often.

These psychological "breakdowns" of sorts can last more than a few weeks. If a goalie loses confidence, he loses focus, which weakens his play, which weakens his confidence even more. For a goalie to be successful, they need to be able to escape the cycle with efficiency.

One thing to also point out is that these goalies will definitely let in some weak goals and lose confidence. It is inevitable. There are certain goalies who have a great rookie season, then face new challenges as teams become more accustomed to them (through familiarity, scouting, etc.). Goalies will have to correct their flaws without over-thinking in games. If the goalie is not strong mentally, the cycle begins.

I'll call it the Raycroft Effect, though it can be applied to many other goalies (in recent memory, Budaj, Mason, Esche, Aebischer, Theodore?, others). Last year was Biron's "breakout" season of sorts, so I'm really hoping the same doesn't happen to him.

Now look at the best goaltenders of our time (Brodeur, Roy, Hasek, etc.). They all had HUGE egos compared to the best skaters. That is not a coincidence at all. It is simply part of the mental makeup that makes them so successful.

Observing Pavelec, I believe he has the talent and mental makeup to be a consistent starter for years. The good thing for Atlanta is Lehtonen does too (and the injury factor is overplayed). Although its possible for Lehtonen to go down, keeping such a valuable asset as a fallback option doesn’t make much sense. Hypothetically, if they move him for a forward of equal trade value, they can play him in the NHL right now. Having the forward help you for a longer period of time will maximize the value of the assets they own.

Now, although some may point to the rarity of prospect-for-prospect trades, that is mostly due to it hardly making sense. It makes sense here. The Flyers have NHL-ready wingers in the minors due to the lack of depth. Guys like Giroux, Downie and Nodl would be in Atlanta’s lineup right now, while Lehtonen will prevent Pavelec from being called up.

I’m sure most disagree with me, but hey, that’s what I think the Flyers should do.

Norm MacDonald is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2008, 02:03 AM
  #44
Amateur Hour
Registered User
 
Amateur Hour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Negadelphia
Posts: 6,507
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherSide View Post
niittymaki, giroux, and a 1st in 2009

for Kaberle and Toskala
I assume you anticipate that 2009 #1 will be one of the top 2 picks? If not, I can't for the life of me understand why you'd propose such a lopsided deal in favor of the Flyers. I mean, never mind the fact that this doesn't even come close to working out under the salary cap... it's just silly.

But... um... yes, please.

Amateur Hour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2008, 03:05 AM
  #45
Dig Out Your Soul
Ex Storm...
 
Dig Out Your Soul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherSide View Post
niittymaki, giroux, and a 1st in 2009

for Kaberle and Toskala
Salary cap?

Dig Out Your Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2008, 07:38 AM
  #46
JagerPuck
Registered User
 
JagerPuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: the 215
Country: United States
Posts: 2,588
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JagerPuck
I would trade Giroux before dealing Lupul.

JagerPuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2008, 08:06 AM
  #47
pelts35.com
Registered User
 
pelts35.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 11,612
vCash: 500
DeepOrange,

I see what you are saying. But the Flyers, and every other organization, have believed that their goaltending prospects had the "talent and mental makeup to be a consistent starter for years" (Boucher, Pelletier and Ouellet). That being said, if I were Holmgren, I wouldn't mortgage the future on yet another goaltender that hasn't proven anything at the NHL level yet (this includes Halak as well).

We can agree to disagree on the topic of whether Lehtonen being prone to injury is overblown or not. The Thrashers know it and that is why, unless they are offered the stars and the moon, they won't trade Pavelec. I would go so far to say that they would trade Lehtonen before Pavelec, and, no I don't want him either.

pelts35.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2008, 08:48 AM
  #48
Kaktus*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 22,389
vCash: 500
for Mr.Berube.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 06-24-2009 at 10:05 AM.
Kaktus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2008, 09:07 AM
  #49
JagerPuck
Registered User
 
JagerPuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: the 215
Country: United States
Posts: 2,588
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JagerPuck
Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
I think Sajack is the one who looks uncomfortable. It looks to me like they're watching Vanna White undress...and the frat boy is smirking, like "this is awesome", while Sajack is like, "What is that tramp doing? We're on national tv here."

On a side note, while searching for that image...I came across this Wheel of Fortune goodness, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_9-6Xs6lp4

JagerPuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2008, 09:10 AM
  #50
JagerPuck
Registered User
 
JagerPuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: the 215
Country: United States
Posts: 2,588
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JagerPuck
No, seriously.
Robyn Regehr.

JagerPuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:55 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.