Yeah... there's a great chance Staal will be better, have a better career etc. etc.
There's also a major chance that Patrick Sharp will do significantly more to help a team, not least ours, over the next three-four years compared to Staal (Sharp is signed for three years after this at 3.9 million). He fits most anything we'd want for Sid's wing style-wise, got 36 goals last year and a +26 rating on one of the leakiest teams in the West, and he is hot from the off this season.
Potential might be overvalued in the new NHL and no less so on HF, but current star production from a 26 year old probably has some value with GM's still.
That said, Chicago could use a center like Staal.
I think we're getting closer...
Let's hurry up and get something squared away so that we can e-mail Shero and get this pushed through.
Staal for Sharp straight-up or shall we add some picks?
But this doesn't really take into account that not only do the Hawks have the likes of Huet and Campbell locked up to above market deals, but they'll also be able to negotiate long-terms with Toews, Kane, and Keith this upcoming summer, which obviously won't come cheap. I can't see them wanting to trade a player as talented as Sharp on such a crazy value contract with so many big contract extensions looming.
I can't see them wanting to trade Sharp either, but as regards the cap, Khabibulin and Havlat coming off a combined 12.5 million a year is a start.
I can't see them wanting to trade Sharp either, but as regards the cap, Khabibulin and Havlat coming off a combined 12.5 million a year is a start.
That's a big chunk, but I just can't see the Hawks dealing for an expensive RFA when they have 3 more on the horizon and still managing to fill in the gaps adequately.
What its going to come down to is Staal wanting to be here or not. If he is unhappy with his role (and he very well could be), he's going to leave. If Shero thinks this, he needs to trade him or take his chances with offer sheets and picks.
What its going to come down to is Staal wanting to be here or not. If he is unhappy with his role (and he very well could be), he's going to leave. If Shero thinks this, he needs to trade him or take his chances with offer sheets and picks.
Tricky situation.
The more I think about it, the less I want the picks. Unless you dealing with an offer sheet from a team that is likely to land you a lottery pick, I'm not sure I even want it. You're talking about players that may not even be on this team within five years, and even then, you don't necessarily know what you are getting. If he leaves, I'd much rather him be traded to somebody to where we are getting back NHL ready and NHL proven talent.
The problem is, when looking at trading Staal cap wise, it makes no sense. to get a significant upgrade on the wing, we would have to, most likely, made a deal that will have us taking salary on, which, with malkin getting what a 5-6million dollar raise next season will be difficult to do. this team has 42 mil in salary locked up with the following gaps to fill (using the current lineup)
That is, counting rfa's 6 forwards 1 defender and a backup goalie that will need to be signed with less than 20 mil to spend.
Right now Staals cap hit is only 2.2 mil, with only about 100k in free cap space you're going to be hard pressed to find a quality player who can play a top 6 role and fit under the cap for this season.
Our best hope is that Staal plays well defensively and this team wins without him racking up the points, we sign him to a modest raise, say something comparable to O'sullivan, so in the 3 yrs 3 mil range, and then after next season when gonchar is off the books the team can then, if need be, trade staal when we've recently freed 5 mil off the books for a slightly older more goal scoring type of player.
I highly doubt we'd even want a defensemen back for Staal, 2 forwards would be much better because for the first time in Penguins history, we are stacked on defense.
And Staal being a late bloomer would equal him actually developing right on time...
Where are most player his age playing at this point in time?
Seriously. Even at that, at the time of the draft, Staal was pegged as the guy that would take the longest to fully develop. He was the project of the bunch. Most took that to mean it would be a while until he saw the NHL. However, that statement wasn't invalidated by him reaching the NHL so soon after being drafted.
His presence in the NHL was a surprise to nearly everyone. I expected him to stay in juniors , go to the AHL for one year, and then crack the NHL roster. Somehow he's a disappointment because instead of developing in the lower leagues since his draft, he's spent his time contributing to a team that fell two victories short of the Stanley Cup.
Some people just lack the necessary patience to properly assess a player like Staal.
I'd rather bring up Pesonen to see if he can play on the right side or left side in the top 2 lines. To me, if he plays well enough that's cause for concern for Sykora and maybe he takes less to stay with a team he enjoys being on (i'm hoping he takes less).
But for the most part...people seem to want to trade away good young players right away without even giving them much of a chance. People fail to realize how our coach is.
I'd rather bring up Pesonen to see if he can play on the right side or left side in the top 2 lines. To me, if he plays well enough that's cause for concern for Sykora and maybe he takes less to stay with a team he enjoys being on (i'm hoping he takes less).
But for the most part...people seem to want to trade away good young players right away without even giving them much of a chance. People fail to realize how our coach is.
People are just flat out IMPATIENT, that's why. This is no different from the crap we've had to hear over the last 2 seasons regarding MAF. People need to realize that not every player is like a Sid, Geno, or Ovechkin where he's gonna produce big time results at the age of 18 or 19. Staal is a very good player, and he will only continue to get better as he matures mentally and physically. I for one am not ready to throw in the towel on him just yet, and the fact that people think that we need to deal him just to lure in a decent winger is pretty funny to say the least.
Definitely. But the only other proven scoring, bruising "powerforward" type winger is Morrow, and he's not getting traded either. They're a rare breed.
Yeah, I'm a big fan of Morrow too. I've wanted him on the Pens for a long time. I remember hoping Stone would become a poor mans Morrow....wishful thinking.
I agree with others about the impatience of most fans in how players develop.
What will be interesting is to see how "impatient" Staal and agent are regarding things like top 6 ice linemates. PP time. And of course contract terms.
I can be patient and wait on his development. But Staal himself might not be regarding his "conditions". (The above mentioned status on team and contract terms).
That is the problem, as his pedigree might be a bit ahead of his actual production. And therein could lie a "disagreement" of opinion between Jordan and camp, and Pen's management/budget/coaching staff.
So while I feel he his going to be a stud two player when he hits his prime, the Pen's might not be the team he does it with. And that change probably will have nothing to do with the Pen's patience threshold with him, but with the business side.
So while I feel he his going to be a stud two player when he hits his prime, the Pen's might not be the team he does it with. And that change probably will have nothing to do with the Pen's patience threshold with him, but with the business side.
That is one of the reason's I said I'd do it for Antropov +. We cannot keep everyone, especially if Staal does not adjust to the wing. Is it nice to have a stud young two-way center to play third line and pk? Absolutely. Can you pay him 5-6 million a year? Not a chance. Can you get someone much cheaper that is perfectly capable? Absolutely. Someone will pay Staal that much. Then the question becomes whether you trade him before or wait for the draft picks. I'm not confident that we would get great picks. I'd rather pick a player up like Antropov who is perfectly capable of finishing for one of our centers plus some other asset. It has nothing to do with patience.
That is one of the reason's I said I'd do it for Antropov +. We cannot keep everyone, especially if Staal does not adjust to the wing. Is it nice to have a stud young two-way center to play third line and pk? Absolutely. Can you pay him 5-6 million a year? Not a chance. Can you get someone much cheaper that is perfectly capable? Absolutely. Someone will pay Staal that much. Then the question becomes whether you trade him before or wait for the draft picks. I'm not confident that we would get great picks. I'd rather pick a player up like Antropov who is perfectly capable of finishing for one of our centers plus some other asset. It has nothing to do with patience.
I agree with you but Antropov doesn't interest me.
Yeah, I'm a big fan of Morrow too. I've wanted him on the Pens for a long time. I remember hoping Stone would become a poor mans Morrow....wishful thinking.
I was hoping he'd become another Tocchet, talk about wishful thinking.
I don't want trade Staal but if I had to choose a forward in exchange for Staal I'd want a guy like Dustin Brown. I'm not saying LA would be interested at all
Then why even bother thinking about it? We all know that Staal is nowhere near close in value to Brown.
Hell, Sharp probably has higher value than Staal right now.
This thread really shows a diverse range of valuation for Staal on this board, and it definitely shades towards overrating him.
Last edited by Super Reverse Homer: 10-26-2008 at 08:48 AM.
Then why even bother thinking about it? We all know that Staal is nearly close in value to Brown.
Hell, Sharp probably has higher value than Staal right now.
This thread really shows a diverse range of valuation for Staal on this board, and it definitely shades towards overrating him.
It doesn't really matter how we rate Staal... Shero has an extreme value on him and I'm quite confident wouldn't move him unless the return was quite substantial.
I just don't see Shero making a bad trade involving Staal...
