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Old
10-26-2008, 01:21 PM
  #101
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I've never liked Brisebois...even going back to his rookie year, I've always thought people saw alot in his game that I didn't see. Some think he's an offensive defensman, I don't see it, he's never put up the stats to show he is...

His defense is porous and has been for some time and I can't understand how a guy who has been in the league for 15 years, still makes the same boneheaded mistakes that he did when he first came into the league, that I will never understand.

However, I don't mind having Brisebois on the team, just as long as he's the #7 guy...it's almost as though Carbo sees him bigger than that.

I also have a sneaking suspicision that a big reason why he's playing so much is to get him to 1000 games...which I think is great for him, but should not the be deciding factor into when he plays

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10-26-2008, 01:22 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Nobak View Post
This is the part I'm intrigued about. We have a few people agreeing O'Byrne has sucked. But, although early against Buffalo I was watching him go and cringing, I've found him making quite a few defensive plays I found impressive since, more often than I've noticed bad plays from him.

Maybe it's just the way I watch the game. Maybe the things I tend to focus on turns my attention away from the type of mistake he's been making. But I'd like to know so I can look for it. What is he doing wrong that I'm not seeing?
I would agree on the defensive side of the puck he's played pretty well. He was terrible on both sides of the puck in the season opener, and he does have a tendency to get turned around in his own zone so he's scrambling more then any of the other defensemen, but for the most part, he's been able to not get burned very often as in leading to actual goals. It seems the majority around here grade defensemen as follows - did he make a glaring error that lead to a goal? BAD. Did he lay a good solid hit? GOOD. That's it.

Well, O'Byrne has not made plays that lead to goals, but he's also simply not playing the system the rest of the team plays.

Montreal is not a team that lugs the puck much on defense when even strength. They're also not a club that has defenseman throw the puck out of the zone. Each time they gain possesion in their zone, be a forward or defenseman, they make a very quick outlet pass to key the offense. Sometimes it's a big long stretch pass to take advantage of the fact the Montreal forward has a foot-speed advantage versus his defender, or sometimes it's quick outlet hitting a guy in stride who will in turn get it up the ice.

Watch Ryan O'Byrne. He doesn't do this. When he gets the puck, he usually throws it up ice to nobody in particular. He throws it off the glass and out into the neutral zone. Or he actually reverses the puck behind the net to his partner so he can make the outlet. All of these things either hand over the possession of the puck or neutralize Montreal's speed. (It also should be noted, that there are some teams in the league where this would be considered no problem at all. Before the lockout, there were usually at least three defenseman on every team in the league that did this. Instead of trying to make a play, they try to minimize mistakes and get the puck out of the zone. This is no longer how the Canadiens play.)

I'm interested to see how he plays first game back in the lineup because I'm sure he's had this drilled into his head: If you want to play here, play our system.

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10-26-2008, 01:24 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I've never liked Brisebois...even going back to his rookie year, I've always thought people saw alot in his game that I didn't see. Some think he's an offensive defensman, I don't see it, he's never put up the stats to show he is...

His defense is porous and has been for some time and I can't understand how a guy who has been in the league for 15 years, still makes the same boneheaded mistakes that he did when he first came into the league, that I will never understand.

However, I don't mind having Brisebois on the team, just as long as he's the #7 guy...it's almost as though Carbo sees him bigger than that.

I also have a sneaking suspicision that a big reason why he's playing so much is to get him to 1000 games...which I think is great for him, but should not the be deciding factor into when he plays
Carbo shouldn't be playing someone just for their own personal accomplishments. If he is, he should be shown the door immediately. Breezy isn't a offensive defensemen as they always claim. He is terrible in every aspect of the game. I really don't know what else to say.

Just watch him. Back in his first stint he still did that two hands out front touch-check. Thats the only thing I can call it. And he did it again last night.

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10-26-2008, 01:46 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Lord Chezz View Post
Very clever...


Yeah Brisebois is definitely hurting out there...but he's our 6th Dman. I certainly don't expect perfection.

I think Brisebois is most effective when he keeps things simple. And unlike last year, he's trying to be a bit too cutsey-pooh
I mentioned it once before but to me the best bet for a #4 Dman is Dan Hamhuis from Nashville. A very good skating dman with a good contract. Did I mention he was a CAPTAIN in junior and won the best Dman etc in junior. He would be perfect with Hammer and drop Oby to pair with Gorges. Boullion becomes a great #7 dman and I would have Alex Henry or Shawn Belle before Breezybye.Henry and Belle bring some size and toughness that could be spotted in and out ahead of Breeze

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Old
10-26-2008, 02:24 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by sampollock View Post
Not sure what the habs see about this guy.

Everytime he gives the puck away at bad times, like tonite vs the ducks....


What does he bring to th game that o'bryne can't???


This guy causes the habs problems, in the playoffs last year, and again this year...


Not sure what you wild fans think, but I feel this guy is going to cost us a BIG win one nite, cause he so poor at clearing the puck.
can we exchange our #71 with #71 from Edmonton?

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Old
10-26-2008, 02:54 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Nitehowl View Post
I mentioned it once before but to me the best bet for a #4 Dman is Dan Hamhuis from Nashville. A very good skating dman with a good contract. Did I mention he was a CAPTAIN in junior and won the best Dman etc in junior. He would be perfect with Hammer and drop Oby to pair with Gorges. Boullion becomes a great #7 dman and I would have Alex Henry or Shawn Belle before Breezybye.Henry and Belle bring some size and toughness that could be spotted in and out ahead of Breeze
The problem is, he would cost an arm and a leg. What do good young top 2-3 defenseman signed to a good contract fetch these days ? Most Nahsville fans will tell you, Hamhuis is their most important defenseman, not Weber or Suter. Are you ready to trade a guy like Higgins or Latendresse for him because if not, we're simply not getting him.

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Old
10-26-2008, 03:07 PM
  #107
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Brisebois straight up for Pavel Kubina.

We get the cup, they get Tavares. Everyone wins.

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Old
10-26-2008, 03:16 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I know. Just when you think, ho hum, Breezer had a lousy game, yeah, I think he sees more ice than he should but when Bouillon was down, no big deal, so these things work themselves out, so I think I'll see the usual putdowns, and here we are, Onice works William Shatner into it.

Does he really walk around with a ringing sound on his ears ?
Mcphee, yeah, I read somewhere that he damaged his ear drum on the set of Star Trek - an explosion went off near his ear. There's a term for it. I can't remember it right now. If anyone has had this problem you'll know what I'm talking about. I have had it on and off since I was 8 years old . Anyway, that's why I brought Shanter into the convo. He got use to his constant ringing and doesn't notice it for the most part. The same with us Habs' fans. We're getting use to Brisebois' constant ineptness.

Look in his best years he played like a schoolgirl - to borrow Plekanec's term. Now he plays like that schoolgirl's granny. On top of his lack of physical presence he has slowed down to the point where Latendresse can skate circles around him and make faces at him. His shot is laughable. He is constantly caught napping or out of position. I won't even mention his brain farts as when he makes those sweet passes to the opposition.

Also, take a good look at him next time he plays. He's constantly looking to his d partner to take charge. He always wants to pass the buck to the other d-man.

And what gets my goat - not yours but mine - is when some posters mention he brings a veteran presence to our blueline. I'd rather have O'Bryne in there and screw up then a veteran like Brisebois screw up and do a little piroutte or make an angry face.

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10-26-2008, 03:22 PM
  #109
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I thought with the way breezer was playing, and the score the way it was, that it was a perfect environment to start hearing the boo birds getting on brisebois. It didnt quite materialize but I think it was really close to happening.

If breezer is dressed next game, I'm convinced he has dirty pics of carbo at his disposal. Bouillon is back, and O'Byrne cant be any worse that breezer... no excuses to play him at this point.

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10-26-2008, 03:33 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
I thought with the way breezer was playing, and the score the way it was, that it was a perfect environment to start hearing the boo birds getting on brisebois. It didnt quite materialize but I think it was really close to happening.

Well where I was sitting the boos were definitely getting started on him. He even got boo'd when they announced his assist.

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10-26-2008, 03:40 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Vicious View Post
Well where I was sitting the boos were definitely getting started on him. He even got boo'd when they announced his assist.
it just wasn;t enough to make it blatantly obvious on TV. Its not that I boo players on favorite team, I'm just a little surprised it didnt happen.

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10-26-2008, 03:40 PM
  #112
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He will keep playing, he's Carbo's buddy. Until he prooves that he can **** up as bad as Rhino he will play....Oh Wait !!!!

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10-26-2008, 03:53 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
But thankfully, the team is run by professionals and not the people here that illustrate on a game in and game out basis that their knowledge of the game, coaching systems and strategies to combat other coaching systems is minimal at best.

I'll take Guy Carbonneau's picks to ice a lineup over anybody that posts here and I don't have to hesitate to answer.

These message boards were literally full of praise for the play of Ryan O'Byrne this seasons despite the fact he was struggling each game. There's a large consensus of people here that simply "decide" they like a player or for that matter "decide" they dislike a player and once that's done, amazingly, actual on-ice play no longer factors into their thoughts.

Case in point - Brisebois in last years playoffs or O'Byrne this year to start the season. In both cases I was amazed to find people commenting on their play in the games as if they'd not just watched the game I saw. (And, seemingly, Guy Carbonneau saw.)



You're crazy.

and who put you way up there on that big white horse?

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10-26-2008, 03:59 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
And what gets my goat - not yours but mine - is when some posters mention he brings a veteran presence to our blueline. I'd rather have O'Bryne in there and screw up then a veteran like Brisebois screw up and do a little piroutte or make an angry face.
My goat is longer

anyway, is it good to have a veteran presence that can not play his position properly? I mean what kind of mesage is being sent to our youngsters. Hey ryan, you better not make a boo boo or we will sit you down and bring in grandpa who doesn't know how to check or defend his net. Cause he is a vet for crying out loud.

Tell me Ryan's game would not have been more effective vs Getzlaf and perry than Brisebois. You can't cause it would be wrong.

your message has been sent Carbo. Ryan will be better he promises.

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Old
10-26-2008, 03:59 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Not The One View Post
[SIZE="4"]Jeeeeeeeeezus, Brisebois was on the ice for the first and second ducks goals, and for the habs' second and fourth goals. He was hardly the deciding factor for the game.
This is the smartest post in the thread. Brisebois certainly didn't help us win last night, but he wasn't the only reason we lost.

I don't see what more you can ask for from a #7 defenseman. He's +2 on the season and didn't cost his team a goal until his 7th game into the year (On the first goal last night he screened Halak). If he can play 40 games this year and be a +5 on the year with 7-12 points.. I don't we can complain too much.

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10-26-2008, 04:02 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
This is the smartest post in the thread. Brisebois certainly didn't help us win last night, but he wasn't the only reason we lost.

I don't see what more you can ask for from a #7 defenseman. He's +2 on the season and didn't cost his team a goal until his 7th game into the year (On the first goal last night he screened Halak). If he can play 40 games this year and be a +5 on the year with 7-12 points.. I don't we can complain too much.
ok so just like when your in the penalty box you don't get a minus

come now, even you know that brisebois numbers so far are misleading.

but in all fairness, Markov, komi, and brisebois had terrible games vs the ducks. Not just brisebois.

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10-26-2008, 04:16 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Toro View Post
ok so just like when your in the penalty box you don't get a minus

come now, even you know that brisebois numbers so far are misleading.

but in all fairness, Markov, komi, and brisebois had terrible games vs the ducks. Not just brisebois.
They didn't score when he was in the penalty box, although I agree that that should be a minus for the player in the penalty box (none of the other four though).

Stats are misleading, I agree. But if your 7th defenseman can be on the ice for more goals scored than scored against.. then he's doing his job.

Last night was the first time that Brisebois was on the ice for a goal against this season.. and while that doesn't describe if he's playing good or not, it describes that no damage has been done with him on the ice until last night.

If my #7 defenseman can finish the season as a + player (the same with my 13th and 14th forwards), then I'm a happy camper.

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Old
10-26-2008, 04:20 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by GoHabsGo247 View Post
Brisebois straight up for Pavel Kubina.

We get the cup, they get Tavares. Everyone wins.
I'd do it and I'm sure Toronto fans are getting mad at the team for winning games. haha

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10-26-2008, 04:37 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Not The One View Post
Bouc émissaire

Jeeeeeeeeezus, Brisebois was on the ice for the first and second ducks goals, and for the habs' second and fourth goals. He was hardly the deciding factor for the game.

Let's just say it was more obvious yesterday against a strong physical team. He couldn't hide because the moment he would turn left to prevent somebody checking him, there was another monster on the right. It was like this all night.

It showed two types of guys with similar skills: Breezer crumbled while Bouillon shined.

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call me crazy but i was very impressed with alex henry in preseason and would like for him to get a chance....he may not do wel but right now i think i would prefer him over obyrne and defs breezer
Carbo doesn't like fighting.

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10-26-2008, 07:04 PM
  #120
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Carbo doesn't like fighting.
Bet he would have liked to seen some last year against Philly!

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Old
10-26-2008, 07:04 PM
  #121
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and who put you way up there on that big white horse?
He does have a good point though.

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Old
10-26-2008, 07:05 PM
  #122
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Carbo is loyal to this guy. I always wonder what the other players think about that. Good or bad?

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Old
10-26-2008, 07:18 PM
  #123
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He's straight up terrible.. Pressbox please.

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Old
10-26-2008, 07:44 PM
  #124
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and who put you way up there on that big white horse?
I got here all by myself.

Kinda like I make up my own mind about opinions about players as opposed to the usual 'piling on' style around here.

To each their own.

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10-26-2008, 08:39 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
This is the smartest post in the thread. Brisebois certainly didn't help us win last night, but he wasn't the only reason we lost.

I don't see what more you can ask for from a #7 defenseman. He's +2 on the season and didn't cost his team a goal until his 7th game into the year (On the first goal last night he screened Halak). If he can play 40 games this year and be a +5 on the year with 7-12 points.. I don't we can complain too much.
I don't mind his being a bystander on Habs goals but it upsets me if he's a bystander when opposing forwards approach the net. The big forwards on Anaheim brushed him aside as though he were a fly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
They didn't score when he was in the penalty box, although I agree that that should be a minus for the player in the penalty box (none of the other four though).

Stats are misleading, I agree. But if your 7th defenseman can be on the ice for more goals scored than scored against.. then he's doing his job.

Last night was the first time that Brisebois was on the ice for a goal against this season.. and while that doesn't describe if he's playing good or not, it describes that no damage has been done with him on the ice until last night.

If my #7 defenseman can finish the season as a + player (the same with my 13th and 14th forwards), then I'm a happy camper.
I've thought about giving a minus to the player in the penalty box but I realized that wouldn't necessarily be fair either. Suppose an opposing player is on a breakaway and a Hab can't quite catch up to him but hooks him. There's no penalty shot but the Hab sits in the box even though it's not his fault there was a breakaway. The opponents score on the resulting power play. Should that defender be singled out for a minus any more than a player who loses the puck in the offensive zone through a giveaway at the blue line?


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