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Heatley to be indicted? (Speculation)

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Old
07-02-2004, 10:24 PM
  #26
ObeySteve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy
But now they're going to indict him and the ONLY reason for the announcement now as opposed to months ago, is Tood Bertuzzi. The Atlanta DA office is trying to prop themselves up on the same pedestal as their Vancouver counterparts; they wrongly perceive that if they don't indict Heatley, they will be seen as "soft" or hold a "double-standard". What a bunch of @^#% cr@p!
What kind of idiot are you, honestly? Where do you get this crap from?

He's being charged now because there's usually a couple month wait before the formal charging of anyone. Take a look at the Kobe trial.

This has nothing to do with the Bertuzzi incident.

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Old
07-03-2004, 12:45 AM
  #27
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As a moderator of this board, I'm asking that anyone who starts a thread please adhere to facts and refrain from posting hyperbolic, tabloid-like thread titles. That is, don't post misleading headlines for the sake of getting attention.

I changed this one.

Thanks.

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Old
07-03-2004, 02:12 AM
  #28
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It's all a conspiracy.

They want Heatley off Team Canada.





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Old
07-04-2004, 05:26 PM
  #29
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[Dany Heatley should be in jail and never allowed too drive again.

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07-04-2004, 05:30 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisher


Just the thought of knowing he made the mistake that ended a friend's life is more punishment than Dany deserves.
You do realize had there been another car in the area where Heatley was grossly overspeeding he may have killed others don't you?It doesn't matter what the Snyder family wants, why should Dany Heatley be treated any differently than a normal person that committed the same crime.

He belongs in jail.

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07-04-2004, 06:52 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyKiller
[Dany Heatley should be in jail and never allowed too drive again.
So youve never made a mistake in your life? Hypocrite. Im glad people like you arent put in charge of the courts.

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07-04-2004, 07:27 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierX
So youve never made a mistake in your life? Hypocrite. Im glad people like you arent put in charge of the courts.
Has one of those mistakes ever killed a man though, something tells me not.

I am glad you are actually not in charge of the courts for you seem to be all about making excuses where there should be none. He was reckless, and there is no doubt about that, but come on people make mistakes and there is no way around that, however people also have to accept the responsibility for their mistakes. If he wasn't a hockey player he wouldn't be charged.

But what is this with the victims family should have a say. Why? Let us say that the Snieders want Heatley to go to jail, does that mean that he automatically should go. There is a reason the wishes of the victims family are not followed by law and that is it.

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07-04-2004, 07:47 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
As a moderator of this board, I'm asking that anyone who starts a thread please adhere to facts and refrain from posting hyperbolic, tabloid-like thread titles. That is, don't post misleading headlines for the sake of getting attention.

I changed this one.

Thanks.
Probably would have been better to say "Heatley's case going before grand jury". There's no doubt that will happen; next week sometime, two weeks at the outside.
I didn't think it was tabloid-like from the title, as cases that go before a grand jury normally get a bill of indictment. What charges the grand jury decides to bill to him is another debate. A slight mis-step in the title given, not much more than that.

I had heard about it Monday or Tuesday on a smaller board mostly dedicated to the Thrashers. The source of the news was 100% correct and (at the very least) as reliable as any media outlet. But without a link that's needed here, I would have been shot down in a second so I even didn't bother mentioning it. I was happy to let the other jackals pounce when the story hit the papers.

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Old
07-04-2004, 08:00 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Smart
Has one of those mistakes ever killed a man though, something tells me not.

I am glad you are actually not in charge of the courts for you seem to be all about making excuses where there should be none. He was reckless, and there is no doubt about that, but come on people make mistakes and there is no way around that, however people also have to accept the responsibility for their mistakes. If he wasn't a hockey player he wouldn't be charged.

But what is this with the victims family should have a say. Why? Let us say that the Snieders want Heatley to go to jail, does that mean that he automatically should go. There is a reason the wishes of the victims family are not followed by law and that is it.
Had the Snyders' wanted him to serve time, the case against him would have been much stronger. They would have an easier time going for the more serious charges. The family's wishes don't dictate the laws that must be applied, but they do have a role in the outcome. Of that there is isn't much doubt or much to debate.

Even with their support, Heatley will still have to face up to the charges that will be brought against him. No doubt on that. Now, it's up for the courts to decide what that punishment will be. I daresay they are better suited to figure that out than we are, tying in every relevant factor to their decisions. We are merely spectators.

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Old
07-04-2004, 08:08 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Smart
however people also have to accept the responsibility for their mistakes. If he wasn't a hockey player he wouldn't be charged.
Hes already been punished, with the guilt he has to carry on his shoulders. Also, wasnt he injured physically in the crash as well? I am not saying hes clean and should walk without punishment as your implying. But to say the should be sent to prison and never allowed to drive for the rest of his life is rediculous.

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07-04-2004, 08:42 PM
  #36
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It's not uncommon for these types of cases to end in little or no jail time regardless if the person is well known or not. It's a lot more common to see jail time if the person killed is just some random bystander (i.e. not a passanger). Regardless of if he deserves tons of jail time and his liscene revoked forever, it shouldn't happen.

A lot of people seem to be worried that he'll get off easy because he's an athlete. It seems to work both ways though. A lot of you seem concerned with giving him a stricter sentance than a repeat offender would ever get.

The prosecution will be trying to prove that Heatley was driving recklessly (which is different from speeding-speeding gets you second degree and a possible jail sentance of up to 12 months).

Also, the police never released an official statment saying how fast Heatley was driving at the time. One officer did estimate it at around 80 mph, but that is different from an official statment. Actually I'm not positive it was a police officer. In one of my math classes we actually learned how to estimate the speed using skid marks, but since it's an eyeball estimate it may not always be correct in all cases. Probably is, but unless the details of how the number was gotten are explained furthur, it's worthless.

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Old
07-05-2004, 01:42 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierX
So youve never made a mistake in your life? Hypocrite. Im glad people like you arent put in charge of the courts.
If I had killed someone because of MY reckless driving I'd be in jail and up for vehicular manslaughter. Why should Dany Heatley be treated any differently?Would you feel safe in a car with him?

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Old
07-05-2004, 01:45 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierX
Hes already been punished, with the guilt he has to carry on his shoulders. Also, wasnt he injured physically in the crash as well? I am not saying hes clean and should walk without punishment as your implying. But to say the should be sent to prison and never allowed to drive for the rest of his life is rediculous.
So if I murder someone and feel guilty for it I shouldn't go to jail?

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07-05-2004, 02:18 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyKiller
If I had killed someone because of MY reckless driving I'd be in jail and up for vehicular manslaughter. Why should Dany Heatley be treated any differently?Would you feel safe in a car with him?
No, you wouldn't be in jail--you'd be going through the same process that Heatley is going through. The US Court system is and always has been criticized for being too slow, that's the case with Heatley "not being in jail." Never fear though, IMO he'll likely be indicted and charged making your "above the law" opinion invalid.

Saying he should never drive again is extremely harsh. Look at all the elderly who are still allowed to drive despite, in some cases, "accidentally" driving through farmers markets killing multiple pedestrians. Now, should Heatley have his license suspended? Absolutely--you can get a 6 month suspension on your license for having a DUI and not causing an accident. Losing his license for a period time, I'm guessing, is pretty much a shoe in at this point.

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Old
07-05-2004, 02:45 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyKiller
Would you feel safe in a car with him?
Yes. Snyder was having fun with heatly driving around fast in his Ferrari, im sure Dany will never be that careless again.

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Old
07-05-2004, 03:20 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cw7
Had the Snyders' wanted him to serve time, the case against him would have been much stronger. They would have an easier time going for the more serious charges. The family's wishes don't dictate the laws that must be applied, but they do have a role in the outcome. Of that there is isn't much doubt or much to debate.

Even with their support, Heatley will still have to face up to the charges that will be brought against him. No doubt on that. Now, it's up for the courts to decide what that punishment will be. I daresay they are better suited to figure that out than we are, tying in every relevant factor to their decisions. We are merely spectators.
I just want to make a small correction here. By use of the word "outcome" it sounds to me like you mean guilty/not guilty. I'm sure that's not what you meant, but I wanted to clarify for those who don't live in the U.S. and thus don't know the process of our courts

Had the Snyders wanted him to serve time, then it's possible that, if Heatley is found guilty, their remarks would weigh in on his sentencing. It would not weigh in against the case itself.

In the courts, the prosecution presents evidence and has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, before a jury of peers, that Heatley engaged in reckless driving and that his reckless driving was a direct result of Snyder's death. What the Snyder family says has little bearing on whether or not he drove recklessly/had killed Snyder as a result of his reckless driving.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm nitpicking on these details here; I know nothing about courts outside of the U.S. and so I am trying to paint a very vivid picture here as to what's being brought up against him, because I would like the same courtesy given to me if I ever needed to understand another country's court system/laws.

I'll say it again: the Snyder family, if they have any say, MAY have an influence on the sentencing (how much time served) if he's found guilty. They won't (or rather, shouldn't) have any impact on whether or not he's indicted or found guilty/not guilty. That process of the courts is to be entirely neutral.

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Old
07-05-2004, 03:55 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King'sPawn
I just want to make a small correction here. By use of the word "outcome" it sounds to me like you mean guilty/not guilty. I'm sure that's not what you meant, but I wanted to clarify for those who don't live in the U.S. and thus don't know the process of our courts
Wrong choice of words, my bad.

Quote:
Had the Snyders wanted him to serve time, then it's possible that, if Heatley is found guilty, their remarks would weigh in on his sentencing. It would not weigh in against the case itself.

In the courts, the prosecution presents evidence and has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, before a jury of peers, that Heatley engaged in reckless driving and that his reckless driving was a direct result of Snyder's death. What the Snyder family says has little bearing on whether or not he drove recklessly/had killed Snyder as a result of his reckless driving.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm nitpicking on these details here; I know nothing about courts outside of the U.S. and so I am trying to paint a very vivid picture here as to what's being brought up against him, because I would like the same courtesy given to me if I ever needed to understand another country's court system/laws.

I'll say it again: the Snyder family, if they have any say, MAY have an influence on the sentencing (how much time served) if he's found guilty. They won't (or rather, shouldn't) have any impact on whether or not he's indicted or found guilty/not guilty. That process of the courts is to be entirely neutral.
The feelings of the family are not supposed to carry any weight in a trial, if it goes that far in this case. I agree that a trial should always be about the facts. But experienced trial lawyers know that emotions can and often do play a part with the jury, even if they are fiercely instructed not to consider them. Just part of being human. If they go to trial, the assistant DA(s) handling the case will try to select a jury that is the least likely to consider those emotions. How easy or hard that would be is beyond me. What the Snyders' have already expressed isn't a matter that deserves consideration at a trial, by law. But the law is tried and handled by people, hard to completely remove that emotional component.

Until there is an actual bill of indictment outlining the charges against him, it's very tough to say how any of this will play out. We're not even sure of what the evidence is at this point, everyone is still going by the preliminary reports given shortly after the accident. They haven't and most likely won't tell the general public the results of their investigation until it comes out at a trial, assuming it goes that far. We're still really in the dark about all of this.

By the way, it's good that you're nitpicking. I should have been more attentive to that and made a bigger effort to include more details. Well taken point.

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07-05-2004, 06:13 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyKiller
If I had killed someone because of MY reckless driving I'd be in jail and up for vehicular manslaughter. Why should Dany Heatley be treated any differently?Would you feel safe in a car with him?
If you were in Dany Heatley's exact situation, there's a good possibility you would have had the charges dropped unless the prosecution has a ton of evidence (factual evidence that isn't based on speculation) we haven't seen. If charged you most likely would get 2nd degree vehicular manslaughter(misdemeanor). Max penelty one year in jail, but it isn't necessary.

So far all we've seen is Dany's broken in half car (which can happen even if the driver isn't speeding-note I'm not saying that he wasn't speeding but that it isn't the greatest piece of evidence in the world) and Dan Snyder's death certificate, which is significant, but without knowing the events leading up to that makes it hard on the prosecution. Maybe they have some more stuff, but I doubt it will be enough to charge him with the first degree. And first degree vehicular homicide is normally used for DUIs (alcohol and drug related). This is one of those cases where it really would have helped if there was a witness.

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07-05-2004, 10:42 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacky
If you were in Dany Heatley's exact situation, there's a good possibility you would have had the charges dropped unless the prosecution has a ton of evidence (factual evidence that isn't based on speculation) we haven't seen. If charged you most likely would get 2nd degree vehicular manslaughter(misdemeanor). Max penelty one year in jail, but it isn't necessary.

So far all we've seen is Dany's broken in half car (which can happen even if the driver isn't speeding-note I'm not saying that he wasn't speeding but that it isn't the greatest piece of evidence in the world) and Dan Snyder's death certificate, which is significant, but without knowing the events leading up to that makes it hard on the prosecution. Maybe they have some more stuff, but I doubt it will be enough to charge him with the first degree. And first degree vehicular homicide is normally used for DUIs (alcohol and drug related). This is one of those cases where it really would have helped if there was a witness.
How can you say that . Your speculating on the fact that there is no such evidence. I can just as easily say that if you were in Dany Heatley's exact situation, there's a good possibility you would have already been charged .

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07-05-2004, 10:46 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Sammy
How can you say that . Your speculating on the fact that there is no such evidence. I can just as easily say that if you were in Dany Heatley's exact situation, there's a good possibility you would have already been charged .
I said unless they can come up with more evidence than they've given the media. Which they should be able to, but since we don't know that we can't speculate on evidence we haven't been shown. And yes there is a possiblity that I would have been charged, but not unless there is more evidence.

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07-05-2004, 10:44 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Ensane
No, you wouldn't be in jail--you'd be going through the same process that Heatley is going through. The US Court system is and always has been criticized for being too slow, that's the case with Heatley "not being in jail." Never fear though, IMO he'll likely be indicted and charged making your "above the law" opinion invalid.

Saying he should never drive again is extremely harsh. Look at all the elderly who are still allowed to drive despite, in some cases, "accidentally" driving through farmers markets killing multiple pedestrians. Now, should Heatley have his license suspended? Absolutely--you can get a 6 month suspension on your license for having a DUI and not causing an accident. Losing his license for a period time, I'm guessing, is pretty much a shoe in at this point.
lol i never said the ederly should drive, infact it's way too easy to get a liscense in america. People who can't do basic addition get approved.

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07-05-2004, 11:23 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacky
If you were in Dany Heatley's exact situation, there's a good possibility you would have had the charges dropped unless the prosecution has a ton of evidence (factual evidence that isn't based on speculation) we haven't seen. If charged you most likely would get 2nd degree vehicular manslaughter(misdemeanor). Max penelty one year in jail, but it isn't necessary.

So far all we've seen is Dany's broken in half car (which can happen even if the driver isn't speeding-note I'm not saying that he wasn't speeding but that it isn't the greatest piece of evidence in the world) and Dan Snyder's death certificate, which is significant, but without knowing the events leading up to that makes it hard on the prosecution. Maybe they have some more stuff, but I doubt it will be enough to charge him with the first degree. And first degree vehicular homicide is normally used for DUIs (alcohol and drug related). This is one of those cases where it really would have helped if there was a witness.
So theres no evidence for wreckless driving killing someone?

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Old
07-06-2004, 01:10 AM
  #48
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Lets face it, he killed someone. Whether he intended to or not is irrelevant, right? right.

I forgive him, but I'm not in the jury so...

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07-06-2004, 02:40 AM
  #49
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Heatley killed someone. End of story. The general feeling I'm getting is that Heatley is an innocent man whereas Bertuzzi is guilty and it's nothing but disgraceful.

Bertuzzi was playing a violent game and took said violence too far. Is this a problem in modern society? Yes. But I for one feel that drunk driving is a far bigger malady than hockey violence to my personal well being. I don't think anyone should be punished for the sake of making an example, but if that's what's to happen, let's lock Heatley up and throw away the key.

Here's a quick run down of facts - no speculation, just facts.

Todd Bertuzzi attacked Steve Moore from behind - an altercation not approved by the NHL but understood as condoned. Steve Moore received non-fatal injuries and in fact looks likely to play again as soon as this upcoming season.

Dany Heatley drove wrecklessly - over double the speed limit according to reports - which resulted in the death of Dan Snyder.

I don't think the guy's a bad player but he's all but a murderer. To let him go because he's in the NHL is to tell the world drunk driving is tolerable or even acceptable, I don't care who has or has not forgiven him.

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07-06-2004, 02:52 AM
  #50
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Yah but it wasnt drunk driving. Still a very indictable case, double speed limit, ferrari young and killed the passenger. Dought he'll spend time, but they cant let him go scott free.

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