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Old
07-05-2004, 06:02 PM
  #1
Bob A Booey
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Los Angeles Kings and the future of Hockey

I dont post much but I read here every single day...if not multiple times a day and I just wanted to say a few things.

I have been a Kings fan for a long time. I have stuck with them throughout the bad times and the worst of times. I understand that the future of hockey is on hold until the CBA gets worked out but I still cant wait for hockey to start again next season. I am very excited about the possiblity of some of the UFA's that have been mentioned to come to L.A. but like every year this time (as a Kings fan) I know not to get my hopes up and am prepared for a long, boring off-season. Sure I would love to see DT sign such players like Demitra, Palffy, Murray and of course Allison. I feel that he owes this team and us fans something.

How is Tim Liewieke doing these days??? I havent heard his name mentioned much. I understand that we want to cut some payroll but I also understand that he is a multi-millionaire real-estate tycoon. Do you guys think that he will shell out a few coins this year? I dont mind given the youngsters a chance but I also want to win now. I know we arent considered contenders (by the experts) now....but isnt that what they said about the Flames and the Ducks last year?

I am frustrated by the last few years without a doubt....but I will always be a Kings fan. I live in MD now (im in the Military) and I went to a few Caps games just to see some hockey but I sure do miss my boys in the Purple and Black!

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE......lets get the CBA resolved.....sign at least one #1 Center and a Winger and lets win some games next year!

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07-05-2004, 07:11 PM
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80% of success is showing up- Woody Allen


Show up Kings, management and players. God knows we fans have been showing up.

I'm a fan too and there's a lot to root for with this team. Take only half the money we're not paying to the "JAZ" and get one or two players one of which has to be a center capable of first line duties and a another working class guy like Klatt and this team would probably be better than the vast majority of sourpusses around expound. Free agency is the only acceptable way to do this because you don't deplete assets. One way or the other it is certainly time for Frolov and company to step up.

I'll tell you the phrase that really is starting to grind on me, "Sidney Crosby". I could barely root for a guy named Wayne, I sure can't root for a "Sidney". What is that a Jerry Lewis character? Even with another 400 man games lost there will be no "sweepstakes". Forget about it boys!

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07-05-2004, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breakaway
I dont post much but I read here every single day...if not multiple times a day and I just wanted to say a few things.

I have been a Kings fan for a long time. I have stuck with them throughout the bad times and the worst of times. I understand that the future of hockey is on hold until the CBA gets worked out but I still cant wait for hockey to start again next season. I am very excited about the possiblity of some of the UFA's that have been mentioned to come to L.A. but like every year this time (as a Kings fan) I know not to get my hopes up and am prepared for a long, boring off-season. Sure I would love to see DT sign such players like Demitra, Palffy, Murray and of course Allison. I feel that he owes this team and us fans something.

How is Tim Liewieke doing these days??? I havent heard his name mentioned much. I understand that we want to cut some payroll but I also understand that he is a multi-millionaire real-estate tycoon. Do you guys think that he will shell out a few coins this year? I dont mind given the youngsters a chance but I also want to win now. I know we arent considered contenders (by the experts) now....but isnt that what they said about the Flames and the Ducks last year?

I am frustrated by the last few years without a doubt....but I will always be a Kings fan. I live in MD now (im in the Military) and I went to a few Caps games just to see some hockey but I sure do miss my boys in the Purple and Black!

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE......lets get the CBA resolved.....sign at least one #1 Center and a Winger and lets win some games next year!
given your first hand experience with the free-spending Capitals melt-down, I would think you'd want the kings to adopt a more intelligent approach then just spending money on a bunch of high priced free agents. it didn't work in Washington and it wouldn't work in LA.

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07-05-2004, 11:49 PM
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Bob A Booey
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Never said I was a Caps fan and I dont agree with spending money aimlessly. I think one or two players would definietly help us now and in the future. "F" the Caps

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07-06-2004, 12:39 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breakaway
Never said I was a Caps fan and I dont agree with spending money aimlessly. I think one or two players would definietly help us now and in the future. "F" the Caps
never said you were a Caps fan...just observed that you had a chance to watch them spend money recklessly then self-destruct. IMO, the kings are best served by saving money for the next year or two and then start spending in 2006 when guys like Tukonen, Brown, Pushkarov, Tambellini, Grebeshkov, and anyone drafted high in 2005 will be ready to contribute. in addition, the 2005 draft is shaping up to be extremely strong led, of course, by Crosby. the kings should be trying to stockpile as many picks in the top 2-3 rounds as possible. spending money on big name free agents this year is money wasted unless your goal is to finish .500. short-term pain = long-term gain...

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Old
07-06-2004, 01:38 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guzmaniac
80% of success is showing up- Woody Allen


Show up Kings, management and players. God knows we fans have been showing up.

I'm a fan too and there's a lot to root for with this team. Take only half the money we're not paying to the "JAZ" and get one or two players one of which has to be a center capable of first line duties and a another working class guy like Klatt and this team would probably be better than the vast majority of sourpusses around expound. Free agency is the only acceptable way to do this because you don't deplete assets. One way or the other it is certainly time for Frolov and company to step up.

I'll tell you the phrase that really is starting to grind on me, "Sidney Crosby". I could barely root for a guy named Wayne, I sure can't root for a "Sidney". What is that a Jerry Lewis character? Even with another 400 man games lost there will be no "sweepstakes". Forget about it boys!
I'm tired of the mediocrity Guz. I'm tired of just missing the playoffs. I'm tired of losing in the first round. I'm tired of a 40 million dollar payroll that is filled with slugs. I'm tired of not really having a shot(without being a total Cinderella)

I think we can all agree that we want to win, it's just that we have different visions of how this can be accomplished. Making a minor splash into the free agent market is just going to keep us mediocre.

Look around the league, and how all of the best teams were built. They were built from within; with a solid core. You might say "Yeah, but that's what we are doing" I would respond to that by saying: Yes, but in an incorrect fashion.

When you look at the Avs, Devils, Red Wings, Stars and Lightning, they all spent a number of years picking from the cellar. They weren't drafting in the teens. Yes, they have done a great job of drafting since, but all of those franchises were built on a strong foundation that was based on early picks.

We've done well drafting, I don't deny that, but it's hit or miss. Is Frolov as good as Kovalchuk? Is Brown as good as Fleury? Will anyone that we ever draft that late have the talent as the number one? In order to minimize the time it takes to acquire franchise players it is essential to draft in at least the top five, if not the top two.

The way we have been going about things has been all wrong. It's too hit or miss. We have been just competitive enough since we started our movement to keep from picking any "franchise" players; upon whose backs we can truly build

That's what I want; a strong foundation. I want to be a cup contender EVERY year. I don't just want a cup run, or a run every dozen years. I want to be a successful franchise!

So when I say Sid-ney Cros-by, I'm talking about the future. And the future is now. There is no better time to make the move.
.

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07-06-2004, 02:27 AM
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Well if anybody likes it or not, this team will stay mediocre. But look at the Calgary Flames. Everybody thought they were just a "mediocre" team and they went to the Stanley Cup Finals. Its been proven that if you have the will, but not that much talent, that you will be just fine.

Last year, we were praising the Kings for their hard work and determination. In my mind we had everything Calgary had. Maybe we were missing a goaltender. But to me thats not an excuse. We had Roman Cechmanek, and he's a fine goaltender. Look line vs. line between LA and Calgary. We match-up pretty well. They might have a slight edge.

But wheres our Jarome Iginla? Ziggy Palffy got hurt, and is gone. Jason Allison, Adam Deadmarsh got hurt, and are gone. Anson Carter sucks, and Straka got hurt, and lost it. Dont get me wrong being "mediocre" doesn't gurantee a spot in the Finals, but the will that the Kings have, and the work that they are willing to put in to each and every game, can get us past the 1st round, and possibly further.

I don't want to see L.A. rebuild. To me we need a big superstar.. Willie's suggestion is good, that would be great to have Thornton here. All those good teams, like Detroit, Colorado, Tampa Bay they got leaders. Boston has a leader. Detroit has Yzmerman, Avs got Sakic, TB has Lecavlier, Calgary has Iginla, Boston has Thornton. We have.. ?? Who? Luc? Certainly he won't lead us. Philly has Roenick, San Jose has Marleau, Toronto has Sundin. These guys all produce, and lead by example. Matty is a leader, but he can't "carry" the Kings. Palffy isn't a leader, he produces, but only when he's playing.

The Kings need a leader, and the Kings need somebody that can carry them for a whole season. And trust me when I say Demitra isn't it. Who is it?

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07-06-2004, 02:52 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire
So when I say Sid-ney Cros-by, I'm talking about the future. And the future is now. There is no better time to make the move.
.
i'm sorry, but i think i'm missing your point. wat move is it that you are saying we should be making in order to attain sidney crosby? is it throwing the season or trading everything we got to get the #1 pick once the draft order is settled?

cause i would say no to both of those options

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07-06-2004, 03:35 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiesAreLikeWins 2 Us
Well if anybody likes it or not, this team will stay mediocre. But look at the Calgary Flames. Everybody thought they were just a "mediocre" team and they went to the Stanley Cup Finals. Its been proven that if you have the will, but not that much talent, that you will be just fine.

Last year, we were praising the Kings for their hard work and determination. In my mind we had everything Calgary had. Maybe we were missing a goaltender. But to me thats not an excuse. We had Roman Cechmanek, and he's a fine goaltender. Look line vs. line between LA and Calgary. We match-up pretty well. They might have a slight edge.

But wheres our Jarome Iginla? Ziggy Palffy got hurt, and is gone. Jason Allison, Adam Deadmarsh got hurt, and are gone. Anson Carter sucks, and Straka got hurt, and lost it. Dont get me wrong being "mediocre" doesn't gurantee a spot in the Finals, but the will that the Kings have, and the work that they are willing to put in to each and every game, can get us past the 1st round, and possibly further.

I don't want to see L.A. rebuild. To me we need a big superstar.. Willie's suggestion is good, that would be great to have Thornton here. All those good teams, like Detroit, Colorado, Tampa Bay they got leaders. Boston has a leader. Detroit has Yzmerman, Avs got Sakic, TB has Lecavlier, Calgary has Iginla, Boston has Thornton. We have.. ?? Who? Luc? Certainly he won't lead us. Philly has Roenick, San Jose has Marleau, Toronto has Sundin. These guys all produce, and lead by example. Matty is a leader, but he can't "carry" the Kings. Palffy isn't a leader, he produces, but only when he's playing.

The Kings need a leader, and the Kings need somebody that can carry them for a whole season. And trust me when I say Demitra isn't it. Who is it?
And Calgary lost! And the Ducks the year before that! Whoop-pa-dee-doo! We've got a consolation banner hanging in the rafters, and everytime I see it I want to shoot Patrick Roy.

Thornton would be great, but what is he going to cost us. Frolov, Brown, Gleason, Grebs, Cammy, Tukonen, at least two of those guys would have to go the other way, if not more. How much are you willing to give up? And how much will it gut the future of this team?

Trust me as good as Thornon is, he can't do it alone. And we all know that we are not going to spend big buck in the FA market. So where does that leave us? With Thornton and a couple of mid level prospects for a future?

So then what happens? Management, not willing to spend money, but wanting to build around our "franchise" center start spending all of our draft picks in order to bring in talent. Oh my God! We're right back in the 70's and 80's again. That worked out well didn't it? I'll jump off a building if we see another Ray Bourque slip away for some fix-a-hole.

The fact is, any of those teams that won the Cup had a lot more than one player. Yzerman had Fedorov(damn good scouting drafting a player that might've never played in the NHL due to the cold war). Sakic has Forsberg(Who was obtained for the number 1 overall, plus a boatload of talent that made that team). The Devils were built on the back of Muller(#2)Shanahan(#2) and Niedermeyer(#3)....Do you see where I'm going with this?

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07-06-2004, 03:41 AM
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The Kings have guys to work with. Frolov (who was as good as Fedorov last year), Robitaille, Klatt, Avery.. We have a pretty good team, that could squeeze into the playoffs. With Thornton who knows where we could go. I think one of the reasons Calgary, and Anaheim lost was beacuse they don't have the will, the heart, and the determination that the Kings do. Who did Iginla have? Conroy? He's good, but Thornton is as good as Iginla, and he has Frolov who is better than Conroy in my mind.

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07-06-2004, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur
i'm sorry, but i think i'm missing your point. wat move is it that you are saying we should be making in order to attain sidney crosby? is it throwing the season or trading everything we got to get the #1 pick once the draft order is settled?

cause i would say no to both of those options
Leave things the way they are now. No need to make any moves, we'll be down there fighting for top five. Then at the trade deadline, ship out Matty, Miller, and any player that we can get something substatial for. Mass the picks (because 2005 is another very deep draft) and pospects. Rinse repeat for the next few seasons. Challenge for the playoffs in 2008. Stanley Cup by 2010

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07-06-2004, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiesAreLikeWins 2 Us
The Kings have guys to work with. Frolov (who was as good as Fedorov last year), Robitaille, Klatt, Avery.. We have a pretty good team, that could squeeze into the playoffs. With Thornton who knows where we could go. I think one of the reasons Calgary, and Anaheim lost was beacuse they don't have the will, the heart, and the determination that the Kings do. Who did Iginla have? Conroy? He's good, but Thornton is as good as Iginla, and he has Frolov who is better than Conroy in my mind.
Will we have Frolov though?

Calgary will not repeat last years success. Make the playoffs? Yes. Go deep. No. They were a Bertuzzi away of not even getting past the first round. Face it they were a Cinderella just as the Ducks were the year before. And the Hurricanes before that.

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07-06-2004, 03:48 AM
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Calgary out-played Vancouver in the 1st round who knows what would have happened if Bertuzzi was there. Like I said I think the one thing that could make the Kings different from any of the cinderella teams is our heart, and hard work. I don't think that if we were to get Thornton, Frolov would be gone. If so we would still have Robitaille, Klatt, Army, Belanger?..

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07-06-2004, 04:05 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiesAreLikeWins 2 Us
Calgary out-played Vancouver in the 1st round who knows what would have happened if Bertuzzi was there. Like I said I think the one thing that could make the Kings different from any of the cinderella teams is our heart, and hard work. I don't think that if we were to get Thornton, Frolov would be gone. If so we would still have Robitaille, Klatt, Army, Belanger?..
Heart? You know Lappy signed in Colorado, right?

1. We are nowhere near as tough as Calgary is top to bottom. We would get eaten alive in the playoffs because of that.

2. Are you trying to say that the Flames didn't play with heart? Or the Ducks the year before? Those two teams gave two of the most ball out performances I have seen. What happened though? They lost. Talent beats heart 9 times out of ten.

2. Robitaille, Klatt, Army, Belanger. There is a such a slim chance(and I'm talking Vegas superlongshot) those four plus Thornton can get us deep into the playoffs.

What we saw last year, with the Kings was overachieving(God love em. I enjoyed every minute of it too! ). Pure and simple. The team that you saw at the end of the year(11 game losing streak) is the "real" team. They just ran out of gas.

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07-06-2004, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire
Heart? You know Lappy signed in Colorado, right?

1. We are nowhere near as tough as Calgary is top to bottom. We would get eaten alive in the playoffs because of that.

2. Are you trying to say that the Flames didn't play with heart? Or the Ducks the year before? Those two teams gave two of the most ball out performances I have seen. What happened though? They lost. Talent beats heart 9 times out of ten.

2. Robitaille, Klatt, Army, Belanger. There is a such a slim chance(and I'm talking Vegas superlongshot) those four plus Thornton can get us deep into the playoffs.

What we saw last year, with the Kings was overachieving(God love em. I enjoyed every minute of it too! ). Pure and simple. The team that you saw at the end of the year(11 game losing streak) is the "real" team. They just ran out of gas.
1. Lappy was a big part of our heart, but every single player on the team played with heart.

2. No, Im not trying to say that the Flames didn't have heart, Im just saying that the Kings have MORE than them, which can get them over the hump. (IF we are a cinderella team)

3. You left out Frolov. Getting deep in the playoffs with Thornton is a long shot, but thats what everybody said about Calgary, Carolina, and Anaheim. So Ill take that longshot. Stop here.. I know what your thinking about posting.. "they all lost", but again the Kings have more heart, and work that much harder than all of them.

If I was a d*ck I would tell you to learn how to count, but this isn't an intense argument, and im not mad. (Notice how you went 1-2-2 it your number listing.)

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