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PGT: Habs win 3-2 in shootout vs Carolina

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Old
10-29-2008, 10:29 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Ross MacLochness View Post
Did I suggest that? No.

But if our 5-on-3's and 4-on-3's continue to fire blanks like they have been, then yes there should be a change. Just like everything else in hockey, if something doesn't work, you make changes. Nothing should ever be set in stone and Lang shouldn't be guaranteed all prime 5-on-3 time just because he's a Righty.

Koivu always looks amazing at the start of the year. He will go though his share of offensive slumps this year.

And to me Tanguay has been unimpressive at the point. He might be better up front. I also don't like having A Kostitsyn's skill and shot sitting on the bench on a 5-on-3.

I personally would give this a chance one time.

Tanguay-Koivu-Kovalev
Markov- AK46

Maybe a couple goals on a 5-on-3 might be what wakes guys like Plekanec up. Wouldn't that be a good thing? having more players playing to their potential? The guy put up 30 goals and 70 points last year. He has the skills.
Tanguay is the guy having the most goals/points on the PP, yet you find he's unimpressive? The problem is not where the passes come from, it's the players up front who just can't buy a goal...

The power play is NOT struggling... We're making great things. Markov still has to adjust to the shooter role, etc etc...

Anyway, I don't even know why we're debating, Carbonneau is not going to change anything anytimes soon on the PP. The puck is circulating too well... Take two Kovalev posts and count them as goals, it's a totally different story.

It would be clueless to start everything once again from scrap, and to ask the players to build a chemestry with a brand new dynamic. We have to keep things stable if we want them to grow a chemestry or else, we're going to go back at the starting point.

Forgot to say/write : Pleks has to work harder if he wants to get things going. Sorry, but he is not getting his hands dirty at all at the moment... I know it's not his type of game, but he hasn't been playing like a guy who wants to get out of its slump in the last game.

Nothing against Plekanec, but he has to make it work himself. He gets quality minutes on the 5 on 4 and on ES, we can't afford to give our slumping players time on the 5 on 3 just to help them with their confidence... You put your best elements in these situations.

I agree with a point though, AK46 would be a great addition to the 5 on 3.

I'd go with :

AK46 - Koivu - Kovalev
Tanguay - Markov

We agree on some points, but I'd let things as they are as far as Tanguay - Markov are concerned.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 10-29-2008 at 10:41 PM.
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10-29-2008, 10:39 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by HamrlikTheStud View Post
Forgot to say/write : Pleks has to work harder if he wants to get things going. Sorry, but he is not getting his hands dirty at all at the moment... I know it's not his type of game, but he hasn't been playing like a guy who wants to get out of its slump in the last game.

Nothing against Plekanec, but he has to make it work himself. He gets quality minutes on the 5 on 4 and on ES, we can't afford to give our slumping players time on the 5 on 3 just to help them with their confidence... You put your best elements in these situations.

I agree with a point though, AK46 would be a great addition to the 5 on 3.

I'd go with :

AK46 - Koivu - Kovalev
Tanguay - Markov

We agree on some points, but I'd let things as they are as far as Tanguay - Markov are concerned.
Lang is out there as he can take the draw and is RH shooter who should be able to get tap ins at the left side of the net.

Also it is important to have two centres on the ice for 5 on 3s. A 5 on 3 can often be very short, that means winning the offensive zone faceoff can be critical... A lost faceoff/icing can mean a loss of 20 seconds. Most 5 on 3s last less than a minute. With 2 centres if Lang is kicked out, Koivu can go in the circle, or vice versa.

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10-29-2008, 10:41 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Lang is out there as he can take the draw and is RH shooter who should be able to get tap ins at the left side of the net.

Also it is important to have two centres on the ice for 5 on 3s. A 5 on 3 can often be very short, that means winning the offensive zone faceoff can be critical... A lost faceoff/icing can mean a loss of 20 seconds. Most 5 on 3s last less than a minute. With 2 centres if Lang is kicked out, Koivu can go in the circle, or vice versa.
Well... Koivu can be disciplined... he's great in the faceoff circle...

And it's not like Kovalev and Tanguay never experienced faceoffs either (both player C at one point in their career), but I get your point.

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10-29-2008, 10:46 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by HamrlikTheStud View Post
Well... Koivu can be disciplined... he's great in the faceoff circle...

And it's not like Kovalev and Tanguay never experienced faceoffs either (both player C at one point in their career), but I get your point.
The RH centre on the 5 on 3 is obviously something Carbo likes... how many times did Smoke play the 5 on 3.

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10-29-2008, 10:47 PM
  #155
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If the PP stays in the bottom half of the league and the 5-on-3's continue to fire blanks for the next 5-10 games, you gotta switch it up, that's all I'm saying. A team with our skill shouldn't be wasting away 5-on-3 chances. It seems stupid to say now because of our record, but in the playoffs if you don't take advantage of those opportunities, you get nowhere.

As for Tanguay, I just don't think he's a point man. I'm not saying take him off the PP, just play him up. He hasn't been brutal, just not impressive back there. And Markov isn't a trigger man.

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10-29-2008, 11:05 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=2540...=topStory_main

Kovalev says the team is still hesitating too much and hasn't found the free-flowing style that helped the Canadiens finish first in the Eastern Conference standings last season.

He says the fact the team is winning is a testament to the personnel on board.

"That tells you we have a lot of skill," Kovalev said. "With all the hesitation and the way we're playing we still find a way to win the games.


"It's not going to be easy to win every game like that, so we have to find a way to play the game we finished with last season. We have to take the hesitation out of our game and be confident with what we're doing on the ice."

I like his comments...

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10-30-2008, 10:37 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
I love Gorges...
As for O'B vs Brisebois... I'd rather watch a young kid make mistakes and maybe learn, then see the same old mistakes from the vet breezy.
Fair enough, but in that case I'd be more comfortable with O'Byrne playing 8-12 minutes a game than the 16+ he was playing earlier in the season. It was also my way of finding a more constructive way of saying, "Imagine if Brisebois had played as poorly as O'Byrne had, look at the lack of criticism..."

I think at this point you have to consider him the no.6 and seriously consider going with Hamrlik-Gorges as our no.2 pairing. Josh Gorges is playing such good hockey and the guy has proven he can play 20+ minutes a night, why not give him more responsibility? Give him a solid partner like Hamrlik and I think you're looking at a very solid no.2 pairing.

I don't think anyone sees O'Byrne continuing to get the 6th most ES time on this team. With Gorges in the top 4 and Bouillon getting a little more PK time, you can give O'Byrne 10-11 mins of ES time and 1-2 mins of PK time. Have him go against 3rd and 4th liners and not be asked to play any kind of shutdown role. Just get him icetime so he can get his confidence up.

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10-30-2008, 11:37 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Quiet Robert View Post
Fair enough, but in that case I'd be more comfortable with O'Byrne playing 8-12 minutes a game than the 16+ he was playing earlier in the season. It was also my way of finding a more constructive way of saying, "Imagine if Brisebois had played as poorly as O'Byrne had, look at the lack of criticism..."

I think at this point you have to consider him the no.6 and seriously consider going with Hamrlik-Gorges as our no.2 pairing. Josh Gorges is playing such good hockey and the guy has proven he can play 20+ minutes a night, why not give him more responsibility? Give him a solid partner like Hamrlik and I think you're looking at a very solid no.2 pairing.

I don't think anyone sees O'Byrne continuing to get the 6th most ES time on this team. With Gorges in the top 4 and Bouillon getting a little more PK time, you can give O'Byrne 10-11 mins of ES time and 1-2 mins of PK time. Have him go against 3rd and 4th liners and not be asked to play any kind of shutdown role. Just get him icetime so he can get his confidence up.
Josh Gorges already plays the 4th most minutes out of the defencemen. He plays more PK time than O'Byrne... and he is the guy they put out with Hammer at the end of the game in close games.

When we are even strength Carbo seems to put the biggest liability with Hammer. So we end up with a very strong number 1 pair (markov-Komi) and our 2nd/3rd pairs are even. When the bench is shortened Gorges gets the icetime.

Just cause O'B plays with Hammer does not mean he is our number 4 D... he is our number 6

We line up like this

Number 1 D - Number 2/3 (the debate Komi vs Hammer who is better??)
number 2/3 - Number 6
number 5 - number 4

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10-30-2008, 12:48 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Josh Gorges already plays the 4th most minutes out of the defencemen. He plays more PK time than O'Byrne... and he is the guy they put out with Hammer at the end of the game in close games.

When we are even strength Carbo seems to put the biggest liability with Hammer. So we end up with a very strong number 1 pair (markov-Komi) and our 2nd/3rd pairs are even. When the bench is shortened Gorges gets the icetime.

Just cause O'B plays with Hammer does not mean he is our number 4 D... he is our number 6

We line up like this

Number 1 D - Number 2/3 (the debate Komi vs Hammer who is better??)
number 2/3 - Number 6
number 5 - number 4
As far as icetime, I was referring to my desire to see the ES pairing of Hamrlik-O'Byrne be replaced by Hamrlik-Gorges for a few games. Also, as Bouillon gets to 100% gameshape, I imagine he will pass O'Byrne as well in PK time and indeed could even surpass Gorges.

My problem with putting O'Byrne with Hamrlik at ES is that it hinders Hamrlik's effectiveness (considering the way O'Byrne is playing these days.) If he continues to play this way, it puts our 2nd pairing at a disadvantage against the opposition's 1st or 2nd line.

I understand why Carbo balances the 2nd and 3rd pairings the way he does, I'm just arguing that we should look at a Hamrlik-Gorges 2nd pairing for a few games and see how that works out. (Granted this would force Carbo to match pairings a lot more than he does, so for that reason I don't really see it happening.)

But right now O'Byrne is really struggling at ES, even with just 13mins a game. However, a Hamrlik-Gorges ES pairing could easily play 16-17 mins of ES time per game and be effective in most matchups.

As I said, I understand the desire to balance, as a Bouillon-Brisebois/O'Byrne pairing may not be the steadiest, and puck moving could be a problem, but I still think that playing strength with strength would be worth a shot.

That said, I think O'Byrne's problem is largely confidence because I didn't see him struggle like this in the preseason. If he regains his confidence and plays a smart simple play, the Hamrlik-O'Byrne pairing should be successful. (I'd still like to see more of Gorges though , I just really like the way he's played for us.)

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10-30-2008, 01:16 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Josh Gorges already plays the 4th most minutes out of the defencemen. He plays more PK time than O'Byrne... and he is the guy they put out with Hammer at the end of the game in close games.

When we are even strength Carbo seems to put the biggest liability with Hammer. So we end up with a very strong number 1 pair (markov-Komi) and our 2nd/3rd pairs are even. When the bench is shortened Gorges gets the icetime.

Just cause O'B plays with Hammer does not mean he is our number 4 D... he is our number 6

We line up like this

Number 1 D - Number 2/3 (the debate Komi vs Hammer who is better??)
number 2/3 - Number 6
number 5 - number 4

I don't know, but to me, this is not even a debate... especially this year.

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10-30-2008, 01:17 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Quiet Robert View Post
My problem with putting O'Byrne with Hamrlik at ES is that it hinders Hamrlik's effectiveness (considering the way O'Byrne is playing these days.) If he continues to play this way, it puts our 2nd pairing at a disadvantage against the opposition's 1st or 2nd line.

I understand why Carbo balances the 2nd and 3rd pairings the way he does, I'm just arguing that we should look at a Hamrlik-Gorges 2nd pairing for a few games and see how that works out. (Granted this would force Carbo to match pairings a lot more than he does, so for that reason I don't really see it happening.)

But right now O'Byrne is really struggling at ES, even with just 13mins a game. However, a Hamrlik-Gorges ES pairing could easily play 16-17 mins of ES time per game and be effective in most matchups.

As I said, I understand the desire to balance, as a Bouillon-Brisebois/O'Byrne pairing may not be the steadiest, and puck moving could be a problem, but I still think that playing strength with strength would be worth a shot.

That said, I think O'Byrne's problem is largely confidence because I didn't see him struggle like this in the preseason. If he regains his confidence and plays a smart simple play, the Hamrlik-O'Byrne pairing should be successful. (I'd still like to see more of Gorges though , I just really like the way he's played for us.)
As for linematching... we just started a road trip.... linematching is much harder on the road... so I wouldn't try this till at least the next home game.

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