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Sometimes I just don't understand Renney...

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Old
10-30-2008, 11:57 PM
  #26
Kind of Blue
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
...I see a team that goes all out, we have so many players that play their tails off (Dubi, Cally, Dawes, Drury, Zherdev, etc etc)....We have a team that bust their ass...
And you wouldn't say Renney is the one who gets them to do that, night in and night out?

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I like Renney but Sather deserves more credit for putting together a team that is WILLING to work their ass off
I guess therein lies the difference in our viewpoints. Its seems you believe all our players are innately hardworking, and will be hardworking under any and all circumstances.

Of course the players have a certain work rate otherwise they wouldn't be in the league, but I believe its the coach, system, and culture that gets a group of players to either go above and beyond every day, every year (see Rangers) or go through the motions some or even most of the time (see alot of other teams around the league).

Sather buys the groceries, and he buys well, but ultimately its Renney who is in the kitchen every night.


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10-31-2008, 12:02 AM
  #27
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I see one positive in playing Fritche over Prucha and not to mention Sjostrom deserves to be put on a third line over Fritche as well. Anyway. Maybe with the Rangers tremendous kick start to the 09' season they want to show case some of these guys and see if any scouts sitting in the stands would be interested. I shouldn't just refer only to looking at Fritche. Not fair. Most guys on the team, except for the untouchables. And that's not many.

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10-31-2008, 12:17 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by greek fan View Post
And you wouldn't say Renney is the one who gets them to do that, night in and night out?


I guess therein lies the difference in our viewpoints. Its seems you believe all our players are innately hardworking, and will be hardworking under any and all circumstances.

Of course the players have a certain work rate otherwise they wouldn't be in the league, but I believe its the coach, system, and culture that gets a group of players to either go above and beyond every day, every year (see Rangers) or go through the motions some or even most of the time (see alot of other teams around the league).

Sather buys the groceries, and he buys well, but ultimately its Renney who is in the kitchen every night.

Nope. Those players have played that style their whole careers..way back in Juniors...reason why they were drafted or traded to us.

They haven't changed the style they play much since coming to the Rangers, they have always been hard workers.

At the moment I cant think of a lazy player that Renney turned around...When he gets Nazzy busting his ass every shift we can talk..but Nazzy floats around ...love that he is still scoring points..but hes a floater, and Renney is not changing that.

You can make an argument for Jagr..but he just wanted to be in a big city..he had the skill. Same can be said for Nik.

Ill say it once, ill say it 200x times...Sather for the past few years has put together a team that bust their ass off every night and know how to win.

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10-31-2008, 12:32 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
Nope. Those players have played that style their whole careers..way back in Juniors...reason why they were drafted or traded to us.

They haven't changed the style they play much since coming to the Rangers, they have always been hard workers.

At the moment I cant think of a lazy player that Renney turned around...When he gets Nazzy busting his ass every shift we can talk..but Nazzy floats around ...love that he is still scoring points..but hes a floater, and Renney is not changing that.

You can make an argument for Jagr..but he just wanted to be in a big city..he had the skill. Same can be said for Nik.

Ill say it once, ill say it 200x times...Sather for the past few years has put together a team that bust their ass off every night and know how to win.
I don't think I have to show that Renney "changed" certain people to prove my point. Regardless of what they were considered to be in the past, I still believe players/a team can go one way or the other depending on the coach and the environment, and when a team is collectively and consistently hardworking, and over a long period of time, that's a reflection on the coach. (I don't want to continually harp on work ethic like that's the only significant intangible at play, but that's where our conversation took us so I'm just finishing the point)

We can agree to disagree, that's fine.

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10-31-2008, 12:38 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by greek fan View Post
I don't think I have to show that Renney "changed" certain people to prove my point. Regardless of what they were considered to be in the past, I still believe players/a team can go one way or the other depending on the coach and the environment, and when a team is collectively and consistently hardworking, and over a long period of time, that's a reflection on the coach. (I don't want to continually harp on work ethic like that's the only significant intangible at play, but that's where our conversation took us so I'm just finishing the point)

We can agree to disagree, that's fine.
Indeed...thats what the message board is about

I say Glen is the genius behind it all, other says its Renney..as long as we are getting the W's in the end..who really cares!

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10-31-2008, 12:57 AM
  #31
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To me, Renney's main strength is his ability to handle different personalities at every level of the organization. To whoever said that Renney and Jagr's relationship went down the tubes after Nylander was traded... haven't you been reading Weinman and Zipay's reports about Jagr and Renney regularly talking on the phone between continents? Or Jagr and Pelino going out to dinner with Cherepanov when Pelino went to visit Russia? How about the rumors that Omsk hired Calgary assistant coach Wayne Fleming based off heavy recommendations by Jagr AND Renney? I think Renney will go down as the only coach in history to have had a friendly relationship with JJ during and after his time with a team.

Renney worked well with Avery during his time here. Let's not forget that when Avery came over NO ONE expected him to be as valuable a player as he turned out to be. Remember how Nik Zherdev never knew how to play defense? Completely lacked work ethic? Well a couple of weeks into the season and it looks like Renney has been all over that problem.

Renney's weakness, as has been repeatedly pointed out, does seem to be his ability to make in game adjustments. It also seems the Rangers always seem a little perplexed when they face aggressive forechecking. But obviously that hasn't been too much of a problem yet this year so I think we can let that slide.

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10-31-2008, 01:02 AM
  #32
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10-31-2008, 05:31 AM
  #33
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the team is successful and so there cannot be any argument that his choices of players, lines and game plan are the right ones. You will never hear from a coach
the words: we play very well, as well as we can hope to....

He is obviously the right man for this franchise and I hope it lasts a long time.

keeping all fingers crossed!

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10-31-2008, 07:25 AM
  #34
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I am one of the biggest Renney supporters out there. After seeing the last two games, I do not think we should begrudge the fans their right to complain about the continueingly embarrassing powerplay.

Shorthanded goals are disgraceful and the Rangers are leading the league in these. SHG more then anything are an indication of how bad the powerplay is. Perry Pearn is the powerplay coach. More then time to hold his feet to the fire.

October is over. The Rangers have played 13 games. That's more then enough time to figure out who is on what line. The two best lines are Voros Dubinsky Zherdev on offense and Sjostrom Betts and Orr checking. Leave it alone.

Put Prucha with Gomez and Callahan and make a decision about who to play with Naslund and Drury )Fritsche or Dawes. Don't bother numbering the top three lines. Split the ice time equally over the three lines and let the cream rise to the top.

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10-31-2008, 07:43 AM
  #35
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I know what your saying but you can't ride one line for the entire season. He was just trying to get Naslund and Drury going which in the long run would benefit the team.
EXACTLY....its not so much that he is breaking it up to hurt the team its that he is trying to get some offense out of drury, nasy by throwing z on a line with them and look what happened last nite granted once the dubi z and voros line was sent out together they registered 2 goals....Renney is a great coach and i believe he knows what hes doing he has a reason behind what hes doing not just blindly shuffling lines

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10-31-2008, 08:20 AM
  #36
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I dont mind Renney's constant tinkering, because you know what? ITS WORKING. When things are working and the team is winning, I just dont understand why people feel the need to complain about it.

Zherdev is moving up and down the lineup because he is out most potent offensive weapon right now, while the majority of our other forwards are struggling.

The major problem is that Dawes-Gomez-Callahan line. Gomez's playmaking ability is being completely wasted with those two...its time to reunite him with Naslund.

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10-31-2008, 08:36 AM
  #37
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3 years and running, I'll say it again. Renney is a GREAT coach and is the WORST bench coach in the league. Everything he does until the puck drops is why we are the team we are. (off to a great start/playoffs 3 yrs in a row) Everything he does once the puck drops is why we haven't gotten past the 2nd round.

Breaking up chemistry, repeating bad ideas that don't work, over playing guys who dont deserve it and not fixing the PP. Thats what he needs to fix and this team contends for the cup. The problem is Renney doesn't seem to learn. This PP hasn't ever worked, EVER. He used Jagr as an excuse but now he has no excuse. Pern needs to be fired.

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10-31-2008, 08:46 AM
  #38
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3 years and running, I'll say it again. Renney is a GREAT coach and is the WORST bench coach in the league. Everything he does until the puck drops is why we are the team we are. (off to a great start/playoffs 3 yrs in a row) Everything he does once the puck drops is why we haven't gotten past the 2nd round.

Breaking up chemistry, repeating bad ideas that don't work, over playing guys who dont deserve it and not fixing the PP. Thats what he needs to fix and this team contends for the cup. The problem is Renney doesn't seem to learn. This PP hasn't ever worked, EVER. He used Jagr as an excuse but now he has no excuse. Pern needs to be fired.
How could he be the worst bench coach in the league, yet still be a good powerplay away from contending for a cup? Thats a little strong.

Whether its liked or not, his tinkering with the lines works...and has worked for 3 + years. Im not saying hes a great bench coach, or even top 10, but he is certainly not the worst.

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10-31-2008, 08:59 AM
  #39
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How could he be the worst bench coach in the league, yet still be a good powerplay away from contending for a cup? Thats a little strong.
Especially since Renney does not run the PP.

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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Whether its liked or not, his tinkering with the lines works...and has worked for 3 + years. Im not saying hes a great bench coach, or even top 10, but he is certainly not the worst.
I also think the Rangers two second round exits had more to do with talent then being out-coached.

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10-31-2008, 09:16 AM
  #40
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Especially since Renney does not run the PP.



I also think the Rangers two second round exits had more to do with talent then being out-coached.
I completely agree. The talent level has progressed over the last 3 years from being a complete two-trick pony in Jagr and Lundqvist to a bit of a more well-rounded attack...but this is still a team that relied HEAVILY on two players up until last season. With that said, its not like its an easy thing to make it to the conference finals, and I dont think its fair to assume that Renney had enough talent where a conference finals berth was to be expected.

This year, the goaltending is still there and now we have a Stanley Cup caliber defense. Its up to Renney to coax as much as he can out of the forwards, which is a group thats high on depth and a little short on talent.

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10-31-2008, 09:23 AM
  #41
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I completely agree. The talent level has progressed over the last 3 years from being a complete two-trick pony in Jagr and Lundqvist to a bit of a more well-rounded attack...but this is still a team that relied HEAVILY on two players up until last season. With that said, its not like its an easy thing to make it to the conference finals, and I dont think its fair to assume that Renney had enough talent where a conference finals berth was to be expected.

This year, the goaltending is still there and now we have a Stanley Cup caliber defense. Its up to Renney to coax as much as he can out of the forwards, which is a group thats high on depth and a little short on talent.
It's more than that. The previous two seasons the team leaned on Jagr and Shanny to carry to the offensive load - with even more older guys like Straka and Nylander to be large contributors on offense as well.

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10-31-2008, 09:28 AM
  #42
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Singn'...

Renney's the head coach - he is responsible for the PP. I don't buy into the notion he doesn't run it. If it's not working, either he speaks to his coach about ways to improve it, because as coach you have a vision and your assistants should follow that vision, or, as coach, you bring in an assistant you feel will do a better job and be on the same page as you.

As for the second round exits...I actually totally disagree that the lack of talent is what ultimately did the Rangers in. If you're going to give credit to coaches for wins, then credit them for losses. He had Jagr, who was doing quite well. He had Gomez, who as a Devil, was more productive in the playoffs than as a Ranger, and an improvement, presumably by superior coaching, may've been a difference maker in a game or two which may've been a difference maker in a series. He had Drury, who under Ruff figured out a way to score goals at a higher clip than under Renney. He had Lundqvist, who is quite a good goaltender, and did play well enough for the Rangers to win one more game than they did against the Pens. Maybe Renney had the pieces but couldn't put them together. Again, if he's going to get credit for getting them to the second round, then he deserves criticism for not getting them past the second round.

And I'll bring back Ron Low...yes, everybody hated Ron Low and thought he sucked. Everyone, including Oilers fans talked about how the Oiler won despite him being the coach (and he did coach a team that ovreachieved to get to the second round twice - a similar accomplishment to Renney, who everybody believes is coach of the year). And everyone remembers the teams Low coached - they were bad - but everyone probably remembers when a top line was going, and goaltending wasn't letting in soft goals (something that's tough to coach), the team was actually in a playoff spot.

Determining who a good coach is vs. a bad coach is like a popularity contest. If people agree with what a coach has to say more than they disagree, and if that coach's team wins, he's a good coach. If they agree with that coach very often and his team loses, it's because his team failed him. I really don't understand how we can have it both ways.

I happen to like Renney. I happen to think he knows exactly what's going in his team and exactly what's wrong. However, I often dispute that he doesn't know how to correct problems and assess in-game situations and this is what kept the Rangers from going past the second round when they had some decent teams, and is what separates a good coach from being a great coach.

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10-31-2008, 09:33 AM
  #43
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Bleed Ranger...

I think this team is also relying on a few players too at the moment. Lundqvist has been leaned on heavily and he has come up big. The bottom six, whoever they may be, seem to be producing as they did in the past and the top six seem to be producing in the past. And Renney's relying on Gomez a lot, who's not really contributing based on his reliance (23 minutes per night? 3 minutes more than his 20 last season; 4+ more than his prior two seasons with the Devils and 7 more than the two seasons prior to that).

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10-31-2008, 09:33 AM
  #44
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What are we going to do? We were 25th on offense last season. With all the line juggling you can think of. What are we going to come with that's going to raise that stat significantly. I said to go with the Gomez, Naslund, and Drury line. If Drury can't score playing with these two guys who can really move the puck than I'm not sure he should be making 7mil a year. This is a team that's going to have to win on team defense and Lundqvuist. Why will the Playstation line break down and implode? If it does. That's what we're paying Gomez, Naslund and Drury the big bucks for.
I don't want Renney to juggle lines throughout the entire year, so I'm not too upset that he's doing it now. I'm hoping that he's getting it out of the way so the team can build more line chemistry for the rest of the season.

I wasn't saying that the Playstation line is certain to break down, I was simply saying that you can't rely on one line to carry your offense. We tried that with Straka, Nylander and Jagr and it didn't work. What Renney is trying to do right now is jumpstart some of the struggling players. How do you do that? Put some of your solid players on their line and see what happens. Prucha got time with Dubinsky, who has probably been our best forward thus far. Drury and Naslund got time with Zherdev who has been great and they've been improving because of it.

I'd love to sit here and tell you what's going to work, but I really have no idea. I still don't like Dawes on the wing with Gomez, but everyone tells me they have chemistry. I don't particularly like Naslund on a line with nobody to set him up either.

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10-31-2008, 09:53 AM
  #45
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Well just say we have the play station line. That's one line (maybe our top line without the biggest contracts on it). If we can't get a second line going that consists of Gomez, in between Naslund and Drury than I give up. I don't understand. Jagr was able to play with Nylander and Dubinsky but not with Gomez. And now Drury can't play on the rw next to Gomez (one of the best assist men in the game. Naslund for that matter too, is a good all around scorer). Solid assist guy and goal scorer. Drury has got be lifting their games as welll. This should be automatic. The playstation line and Gomez, Drury and Naslund line. Renney had them together and must keep them together. If Drury is making 35 million for 5 years and can't score on a line like that then there is seriously something wrong here. As far as the third line. I liked the way Korpokoski looked centering Cally and Prucha during the pre season. They were a relentless, quick, excellent forechecking line. Of course that line was broken up A SAP. The bottom line though is winning. And so far that's what we have been doing.

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10-31-2008, 09:58 AM
  #46
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Well just say we have the play station line. That's one line (maybe our top line without the biggest contracts on it). If we can't get a second line going that consists of Gomez, in between Naslund and Drury than I give up. I don't understand. Jagr was able to play with Nylander and Dubinsky but not with Gomez. And now Drury can't play on the rw next to Gomez (one of the best assist men in the game. Naslund for that matter too, is a good all around scorer). This should be automatic. The playstation line and Gomez, Drury and Naslund line. Renney had them together and must keep them together. If Drury is making 35 million for 5 years and can't score on a line like that then there is seriously something wrong here. As far as the third line. I liked the way Korpokoski looked centering Cally and Prucha during the pre season. They were a relentless, quickm and excellent forechecking line. Of course that line was broken up A SAP. The bottom line though is winning. And so far that's what we have been doing.
The real problem they are facing is that Gomez is a lot like JAgr in that he has to play with certain line mates. He is not plug and play like Dubi is. And he is too old and set in his ways to change his play style to compliment his wingers. Gomez will be traded by next season anyways.

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10-31-2008, 10:02 AM
  #47
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Yeah in a game or two everyone who loves Renney here will be screaming just like me when we fail on another 5 on 3 or a crucial 3rd period power play, and it's going to be the same old same old.

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10-31-2008, 10:05 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Renney's the head coach - he is responsible for the PP. I don't buy into the notion he doesn't run it. If it's not working, either he speaks to his coach about ways to improve it, because as coach you have a vision and your assistants should follow that vision, or, as coach, you bring in an assistant you feel will do a better job and be on the same page as you.

As for the second round exits...I actually totally disagree that the lack of talent is what ultimately did the Rangers in. If you're going to give credit to coaches for wins, then credit them for losses. He had Jagr, who was doing quite well. He had Gomez, who as a Devil, was more productive in the playoffs than as a Ranger, and an improvement, presumably by superior coaching, may've been a difference maker in a game or two which may've been a difference maker in a series. He had Drury, who under Ruff figured out a way to score goals at a higher clip than under Renney. He had Lundqvist, who is quite a good goaltender, and did play well enough for the Rangers to win one more game than they did against the Pens. Maybe Renney had the pieces but couldn't put them together. Again, if he's going to get credit for getting them to the second round, then he deserves criticism for not getting them past the second round.

And I'll bring back Ron Low...yes, everybody hated Ron Low and thought he sucked. Everyone, including Oilers fans talked about how the Oiler won despite him being the coach (and he did coach a team that ovreachieved to get to the second round twice - a similar accomplishment to Renney, who everybody believes is coach of the year). And everyone remembers the teams Low coached - they were bad - but everyone probably remembers when a top line was going, and goaltending wasn't letting in soft goals (something that's tough to coach), the team was actually in a playoff spot.

Determining who a good coach is vs. a bad coach is like a popularity contest. If people agree with what a coach has to say more than they disagree, and if that coach's team wins, he's a good coach. If they agree with that coach very often and his team loses, it's because his team failed him. I really don't understand how we can have it both ways.

I happen to like Renney. I happen to think he knows exactly what's going in his team and exactly what's wrong. However, I often dispute that he doesn't know how to correct problems and assess in-game situations and this is what kept the Rangers from going past the second round when they had some decent teams, and is what separates a good coach from being a great coach.
One question, who did Renney have on the ice when Drury scored for Buffalo to tie it? Wasn't it Jagr, Nylander and Isbister? They had to ice it and couldn't get off. I'm sorry but those 3 should not be out there at that time.

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10-31-2008, 10:05 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Renney's the head coach - he is responsible for the PP. I don't buy into the notion he doesn't run it. If it's not working, either he speaks to his coach about ways to improve it, because as coach you have a vision and your assistants should follow that vision, or, as coach, you bring in an assistant you feel will do a better job and be on the same page as you.
Renney has been content letting his assistants run it. I think he likes the coaching staff and feels the PP will right itself.

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As for the second round exits...I actually totally disagree that the lack of talent is what ultimately did the Rangers in. If you're going to give credit to coaches for wins, then credit them for losses. He had Jagr, who was doing quite well. He had Gomez, who as a Devil, was more productive in the playoffs than as a Ranger, and an improvement, presumably by superior coaching, may've been a difference maker in a game or two which may've been a difference maker in a series. He had Drury, who under Ruff figured out a way to score goals at a higher clip than under Renney. He had Lundqvist, who is quite a good goaltender, and did play well enough for the Rangers to win one more game than they did against the Pens. Maybe Renney had the pieces but couldn't put them together. Again, if he's going to get credit for getting them to the second round, then he deserves criticism for not getting them past the second round.
Lack of talent might not be the right word. Less talent is probably better. And they certainly were older than the Sabres and Pens. No coach, no matter how good, could take years off of Jagr and Shanahan.

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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
And I'll bring back Ron Low...yes, everybody hated Ron Low and thought he sucked. Everyone, including Oilers fans talked about how the Oiler won despite him being the coach (and he did coach a team that ovreachieved to get to the second round twice - a similar accomplishment to Renney, who everybody believes is coach of the year). And everyone remembers the teams Low coached - they were bad - but everyone probably remembers when a top line was going, and goaltending wasn't letting in soft goals (something that's tough to coach), the team was actually in a playoff spot.

Determining who a good coach is vs. a bad coach is like a popularity contest. If people agree with what a coach has to say more than they disagree, and if that coach's team wins, he's a good coach. If they agree with that coach very often and his team loses, it's because his team failed him. I really don't understand how we can have it both ways.

I happen to like Renney. I happen to think he knows exactly what's going in his team and exactly what's wrong. However, I often dispute that he doesn't know how to correct problems and assess in-game situations and this is what kept the Rangers from going past the second round when they had some decent teams, and is what separates a good coach from being a great coach.
Ron Low couldn't get anyone on those Rangerr teams to play a system. Ron Low was always for a "we" when the Rangers won and a "they" for when the Rangers lost. It doesn't work that way.

For whatever reason, Renney has gets through to his players. Even Jagr managed to back check and play defense. The team takes it's cue from Renney's demeanor (for the better) unlike any NY sports team I have seen since Parcells was coaching the Giants.

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10-31-2008, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers32185 View Post
Yeah in a game or two everyone who loves Renney here will be screaming just like me when we fail on another 5 on 3 or a crucial 3rd period power play, and it's going to be the same old same old.
Not if they keep winning games.

Its the same old same old now and they're 8 games over .500 and on a three game winning streak.

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