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10-31-2008, 02:07 PM
  #326
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Originally Posted by TomPlex View Post
Like someone already mentioned, if it was a matter of supporting his family, I highly doubt that the Habs wouldn't have increased his salary to keep him here. An extra few hundred thousand is like peanuts to this team.

I wonder if Gainey offers him some more money now...


Gainey can't offer special priviledges unfortunately.

And for myself, I really do not buy the "poor kid that supports his family" story. I mean, 150k per year would be enough to support him and to send 30-40k at home which should be sufficient for his parents.

The way I know Russian culture, what I find the most interesting is the fact that the "poor, helpless" father had signed him to Dynamo before he got there. It looks to me like his parents decided for him, under some sort of pressure (most likely money) and he did not have the strenght to oppose. Unlike here, in some places parents consider they have rights over their children for a long time after 18 years.

It's sad - he was probably on the soon to get to NHL list. Either here or with another team - there is always room for a big, hard hitting D-man in the league.

There are a lot of weird things happening in Russia - you will see more.

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10-31-2008, 02:08 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by TomPlex View Post
Like someone already mentioned, if it was a matter of supporting his family, I highly doubt that the Habs wouldn't have increased his salary to keep him here. An extra few hundred thousand is like peanuts to this team.

I wonder if Gainey offers him some more money now...
He can't.

Valentenko was on a 3-year contract.. you can't re-talk contracts in the new CBA.

The only chance was for him to be called up to the NHL.

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Originally Posted by Newhabfan View Post
Gainey can't offer special priviledges unfortunately.

And for myself, I really do not buy the "poor kid that supports his family" story. I mean, 150k per year would be enough to support him and to send 30-40k at home which should be sufficient for his parents.

The way I know Russian culture, what I find the most interesting is the fact that the "poor, helpless" father had signed him to Dynamo before he got there. It looks to me like his parents decided for him, under some sort of pressure (most likely money) and he did not have the strenght to oppose. Unlike here, in some places parents consider they have rights over their children for a long time after 18 years.

It's sad - he was probably on the soon to get to NHL list. Either here or with another team - there is always room for a big, hard hitting D-man in the league.

There are a lot of weird things happening in Russia - you will see more.
You did read 150K BEFORE taxes.

So he'd probably take home considerably less.. And we have no idea what his family's lifestyle is at home..

Hopefully the talk of 2 option years is true.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 10-31-2008 at 02:49 PM.
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10-31-2008, 02:12 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
You did read 150K BEFORE taxes.

So he'd probably take home considerably less.. And we have no idea what his family's lifestyle is at home..

Hopefully the talk of 2 option years is true.
Not to mention hospital bills, if his father is indeed receiving some sort of treatment.

I see no reason to not believe this story. Call me naive. If this was a Canadian kid doing this we'd hear about how brave he was to forsake his NHL dream just to help out his family. But because it's a Russian, it all must be a big lie.

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10-31-2008, 02:14 PM
  #329
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QGD, I do wonder though if in his mind, he thought he might be closer to making it than his camp indicated ? There's no sense downgrading his potential, I just think that he might have thought he had a shot this year and was disapointed in himself.
That's another possibility. Hopefully we get to hear his thoughts on how the season started for him at some point.

Sounds though like his family is quite dependant on him, and if that is the case, he has to do the right thing by them. It sucks for those of us who wanted to watch him play hockey for a team we support, but that is nothing in the grand scheme of things. I hope he manages to achieve everything he needs to do for his family in Russia this year. Hopefully one day we see him fulfil his dream and play with the Habs. Until then, the best of luck to him.

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10-31-2008, 02:14 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Dave View Post

As for Valentenko, he started his first few games in the AHL last year poorly as well. But after about 2 months of action, he'd cut most mistakes out of his game. After about 4 months, he was rock solid at the back and helped put the odd few points on the board. He had a slight decline in play towards the end of the year, but when half the team as good as gives up once they are denied a playoff spot, it's hard to focus the blame on a 20 year old rookie who has travelled half way around the world to adapt to a new style of hockey.

I didn't see much pre-season action so I can't comment on that, I'll leave that for others to detail. By consensus, he wasn't good. But I don't see why people are getting on his case for his 4 games in the AHL this year. He wasn't at his best, there were a few mistakes present in his game, but he was hardly bad/awful. He looked like a young kid trying to get his rhythm back, but he had some positive moments that all seem to have been conveniently forgotten. Not to mention, he may well have been playing while knowing that all was not well at home.

The LD/RD arguement has some value, but I think someone earlier said it should be on a case by case basis, which seems fair to me. Seeing as we don't have the opportunity to see these guys tried out of their comfort zone unless it happens in a match, it's hard to call. But it should be considered. The style of play arguement is important though. Tank can shoot almost as well as Carle/Weber, probably harder though. He can't move the puck up ice as well as they can. He has his moments making great passes, but the other two are clearly better. But along the boards? In front of the net? Defending a 2 on 1? Making the Dogs zone a place where other teams forwards watch where they skate? I'll take Tank for those jobs any day of the year anyone can name until the other two show me something to make me change my mind. Based on this years play or lastyears. Weber is starting to look better in his own zone, but hasn't been overly tested. Carle was a mixture of average/occasionally brutal in his own zone in his first game of the year, but he needs time to get used to being back on the ice in game situations.

Team needs would likely have played a big part in who would have gotten the next call up on D. But people counting out Pavel on the basis of a few pre-season games makes no sense to me whatsoever.
QGD - I don't question your assessment of Valentenko nor Carle based on their Hamilton performance. But I think the Habs might have a different assessment on the depth chart. Subban and Weber both stayed longer and impressed at the camp, Valetenko not so much. I just question that he is the next one to be called up.

Again, we need to look at the big picture. Markov, Komi, Hamerlik, Georges and Obyrne are not going anywhere in the forseeable future. McDo, Subban, Weber are all ahead of Valentenko. That does not include Emelin, who is rumored to be coming next fall.

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10-31-2008, 02:33 PM
  #331
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According to RDS, the Habs have announced that Valentenko is suspended indefinitely.

So much for the father's cancer...

Valentenko just defected to the KHL. Period.

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10-31-2008, 02:41 PM
  #332
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Read the story it says he went back under pressure from his family who he supports in the entirety. Give the kid a break, now that i hear the real story, i feel sorry for him. His agent says he wanted to stay here and likes it here.

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10-31-2008, 02:44 PM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomPlex View Post
Like someone already mentioned, if it was a matter of supporting his family, I highly doubt that the Habs wouldn't have increased his salary to keep him here. An extra few hundred thousand is like peanuts to this team.

I wonder if Gainey offers him some more money now...
You can't renogiate an existing contract.

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10-31-2008, 02:45 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
According to RDS, the Habs have announced that Valentenko is suspended indefinitely.

So much for the father's cancer...

Valentenko just defected to the KHL. Period.
Read the ****ing story...Jesus.

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10-31-2008, 02:47 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
According to RDS, the Habs have announced that Valentenko is suspended indefinitely.

So much for the father's cancer...

Valentenko just defected to the KHL. Period.
Umm.... I fail to see how part 1 leads to a conclusion that his father doesn't have cancer.....

Wow, way to jump to conclusions....

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10-31-2008, 02:48 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
But I think the Habs might have a different assessment on the depth chart. Subban and Weber both stayed longer and impressed at the camp, Valetenko not so much. I just question that he is the next one to be called up.
Questioning the callup order is alright, when people explain their point. But seeing some other people throwing names like Carle, Belle, Subban into the discussion above Pavel makes no sense to me. Weber had a great camp and is doing ok now, so I can understand that. Carle, I've made my point about so I won't repeat that. Belle hasn't shown more than Valentenko has this year, let alone Pavels play last year. Subban may be higher on the depth chart long term, but if I start a poll to see how many people think he gets called up this year, I expect it wouldn't be worthwhile bothering. I won't argue player performances in camp, but I think some people have put too fine a point on those limited games. Guys like Subban may well have a bigger impact in the NHL than Tank, but it won't be this year. Camp was good for a look at some of these guys, but I don't think one camp out-weighs an entire season of play. At least, to me it doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
Again, we need to look at the big picture. Markov, Komi, Hamerlik, Georges and Obyrne are not going anywhere in the forseeable future. McDo, Subban, Weber are all ahead of Valentenko. That does not include Emelin, who is rumored to be coming next fall.
Perhaps people are arguing slightly different points here. In the long term, those guys highlighted could well be more important to the Habs than Tank. But in terms of callups this year (which is my main point, if I didn't make that clear before), the only guy other than Tank who has a decent shot of it is Weber IMO. McD will see no NHL time this year. Neither will Subban. Carle probably won't. Belle probably won't unless he picks his game up. Not sure what to expect long term from Henry but he has started the season fairly well. In terms of this year on the depth chart, Tank is/was very high IMO, regardless of a poor camp. Of course, now everyone bumps up a spot, but in terms of the Habs NHL depth on the blueline this year, Tank was right up there in discussion of next in line, which some people appear to be saying otherwise. Even in terms of long term depth, just because a kid had a bad camp and some others had a good one, I don't think that has (or perhaps should have) a radical effect on anyones depth chart.

I might just be misinterpreting some peoples comments, but that's what it seems to me that some people have been saying.

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10-31-2008, 02:48 PM
  #337
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"Pressure from his (mafia) family." You need to read a lot into this. Not the first time it would happen. Don't trust it when it says that he has to go back for family issues.

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10-31-2008, 02:51 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
According to RDS, the Habs have announced that Valentenko is suspended indefinitely.

So much for the father's cancer...

Valentenko just defected to the KHL. Period.
Couldn't it be just a technicality in order to not have to pay him and other things like that?

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10-31-2008, 02:53 PM
  #339
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It seems Valentenko gave an short interview explaining why he left the Bulldogs.

http://nhl.fanhouse.com/2008/10/31/v...ned-to-russia/ (translation with original russian link inside)

Quote:
Why did you decide to come back to Russia in the middle of the season?

"Honestly, I just wanted to live closer to my family. Montreal let me go without a problem, they were very considerate. Perhaps I will be back there next year."

How long is your contract with Dynamo for?

"Until the end of the season."

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10-31-2008, 02:54 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
"Pressure from his (mafia) family." You need to read a lot into this. Not the first time it would happen. Don't trust it when it says that he has to go back for family issues.
How can somebody even say such a retarded, small-minded thing? Give me a break...

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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Couldn't it be just a technicality in order to not have to pay him and other things like that?
For sure. The Habs were going to suspend Valentenko w/o pay no matter what happened. Would you (or anyone else) continue paying an employee who quit to work for another company?

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10-31-2008, 02:55 PM
  #341
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Umm.... I fail to see how part 1 leads to a conclusion that his father doesn't have cancer.....

Wow, way to jump to conclusions....
I read nowhere that is father has cancer. NOWHERE ! All that is written is that his family is counting on his salary to live better. So. a KHL salary is way more interesting than an AHL salary for sure.

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10-31-2008, 02:58 PM
  #342
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I think its fine what he did - you got to remember this is like a job. If you are offered a job that's going to pay you 2-3 more then you are earning and closer to your family you would take it . We are forgetting to us Hockey is a sport - but to hockey players that is thier job and way of earning a living.

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10-31-2008, 02:58 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by Chipchuro View Post
It seems Valentenko gave an short interview explaining why he left the Bulldogs.

http://nhl.fanhouse.com/2008/10/31/v...ned-to-russia/ (translation with original russian link inside)

How about this....that sounds like fun for the future.....

Quote:
Mikhail Golovkov, Dynamo Moscow President, has great plans for the future with Valentenko.

"We signed Pavel for three years," – Golovkov told Sovetsky Sport.

Perhaps his contract has a provision that he can go back in the NHL if Montreal offer him a first team spot?

"He is a Dynamo Moscow player from today! No excuses."
I'm personnally no expecting anything from him really. He wants to be closer to his family and let say his father died in the meantime. He'll still now want to be closer to his mother who'll be alone. And unless we can GUARANTEE him a spot with the Habs, he'll always be making more money over there than with the Dogs....

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10-31-2008, 03:02 PM
  #344
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I think its fine what he did - you got to remember this is like a job. If you are offered a job that's going to pay you 2-3 more then you are earning and closer to your family you would take it . We are forgetting to us Hockey is a sport - but to hockey players that is thier job and way of earning a living.
When you signed a contract, you respect it ! Russian players don't seem to knoiw the meaning of the word 'contract" - Yahin and Radulov are two prime examples. Samsonov just sit on his littloe fat ass as soon as he signs.

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10-31-2008, 03:17 PM
  #345
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When you signed a contract, you respect it ! Russian players don't seem to knoiw the meaning of the word 'contract" - Yahin and Radulov are two prime examples. Samsonov just sit on his littloe fat ass as soon as he signs.
Way to lump all russian players in based on the actions of a few....

Want to talk about the "french media" next... or will it be "soft europeans"

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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
I read nowhere that is father has cancer. NOWHERE ! All that is written is that his family is counting on his salary to live better. So. a KHL salary is way more interesting than an AHL salary for sure.
Then you obviously haven't read this whole thread... nor the other articles that have been written....

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10-31-2008, 03:21 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
When you signed a contract, you respect it ! Russian players don't seem to knoiw the meaning of the word 'contract" - Yahin and Radulov are two prime examples. Samsonov just sit on his littloe fat ass as soon as he signs.
If you needed to support your family.. and if your dad was sick.. and you had to give up a dream to go home to help them.. would you enjoy being called a *********?

Think about yourself in the same situation before jumping to conclusions.

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10-31-2008, 03:24 PM
  #347
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Michel Villeneuve just mentionned the story about his father having cancer...

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10-31-2008, 03:39 PM
  #348
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I don't even know what to say on this anymore.

I don't believe this story. I believe he's been targeted by the mafia.

Just like Ovechkin.

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10-31-2008, 03:46 PM
  #349
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
According to RDS, the Habs have announced that Valentenko is suspended indefinitely.

So much for the father's cancer...

Valentenko just defected to the KHL. Period.
while the word suspension is very dramatic, it's book keeping. He's under contract, he left they have to suspend him without pay. That's how it works. The moment he boarded the plane he was on the suspended list, technically last weekend I belive I read on the Dogs thread.

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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
When you signed a contract, you respect it ! Russian players don't seem to knoiw the meaning of the word 'contract" - Yahin and Radulov are two prime examples. Samsonov just sit on his littloe fat ass as soon as he signs.
Oh take off your hypocrite shirt, if Emelin left his team tomorrow, you'd cheer for him next Saturday. Do you enjoy watching Malkin ? He bolted, left a signed contract. The NHL has done this 3 or 4 times in the past months.

You do what's best for you and your family. Whatever his reaso0ns, they are his.


Regarding the Mafia talk, c'mon, anyone hear McGuire talk about how well insulated these guys are ? There aren't gangsters in mink coats waiting outside the team bus.


Honestly, I think that people tend to hear a few stories an dthink that it's par for the course. Yes there's organized crime in Russia as in North America. It has in the past been linked with blackmail plots involving athletes. It has happened here too. The perception remains that it's the wild west in Russia. Players get approached by and have ties to mob figures often mistakenly, young guys with money thinking they've made new friends.

I think a lengthy list could be made about rumoured ties that athletes have had to people on the shady side,whether it be basketball,football,baseball or hockey, though to do that would indeed be slanderous.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 10-31-2008 at 03:59 PM.
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10-31-2008, 04:08 PM
  #350
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Since hearing Oleg Petrov's story, I believe the Russian mafia is indeed omnipresent in Russian hockey. Because if they target little potatoes like Oleg Petrov, why wouldn't they target big wigs?

Anybody remembers this report on Russian hockey that showed this "influential" person holding a meeting with all those great hockey players, hell, almost ALL great Russian hockey players at ONCE?

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