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Sometimes I just don't understand Renney...

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Old
10-31-2008, 03:12 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by NYRangers3018 View Post
You make a great point and then a terrible point. If Gomez was a true No. 1 center, he wouldn't need a kovalchuk or gaborik to produce.

Again, I hate the fact that gomez is being wasted with the inept Dawes, but hey, we're 10-2-1, something is working.
strongly agree. i have no idea why dawes is playing with prucha scratched. prucha out hussles dawes by a long shot. and aside from his occasional blind passes, he gets many more chances at nabbing a point than stupid dawes who trys to be the superstar hes not with his pseudo-fancy moves. give this guy up, he needs to go. we don't need him

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10-31-2008, 03:44 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by MikeyGSpot View Post
Its all about good bounces. Last couple of years we have had horrible bounces.

Do you know what the difference between off the crossbar and in the net is? About 1/2 an inch.

That's all it takes. 1/2 an inch and you can win or lose a season. We were always on the cusp of greatness. But it took a no-nonsense coach to get the players to keep driving.

No other coach even comes close. cept Lester Patrick.
What about "Iron" Mike Keenan? Does anyone think Renney is too soft on his players?

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10-31-2008, 03:49 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
What about "Iron" Mike Keenan? Does anyone think Renney is too soft on his players?
Nope. I'd take Renney any day over Keenan. Keenan, especially during the playoffs was a disaster.

Lucky for the Rangers they had Messier.

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10-31-2008, 03:52 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Nope. I'd take Renney any day over Keenan. Keenan, especially during the playoffs was a disaster.

Lucky for the Rangers they had Messier.
Oh c'mon. Keenan was here for one season and he won a cup. Something how many coaches couldn't do before him? Mess was here a total of 10 years or so? Only 1 cup in NY and one ECF. I admit Iron Mike as a GM stinks but as a head coach just behind the bench he is a great coach, obviously not for all players but for most yeah. Even Mess gave Keenan credit after game 7, go watch.

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10-31-2008, 03:57 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by DAWESGOTPAWES View Post
yes, because just because they click well, doesnt mean they wont click better with anyone else. aaron voros is great and all, but did you really predict he would be scoring as many goals as he did? no, you probably didn't. but who did you think would? naslund right? or maybe if he was centered by gomez, a veteran playmaker. we're 10-2-1 for a reason, and a good percentage of it is attributed to the experimentation renney is taking advantage of early in the season. or maybe would you rather him start tinkering with lines upon the playoff stretch?

it's mind boggling why you're not the head coach of some team out there?
Yea well ya know what. The playstation line did work. Theres no reason Drury making 7mil a year cant find a his nitch with Gomez and Naslund. the tinkering was under way after the playstation line produced. "this is a dumb post." Useless. It's not mind boggling why you're not the head coach of some team out there. Some people just don't read posts and come back with sarcastic posts of their own. They don't even know what they're getting defensive about.

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10-31-2008, 04:05 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
Theres no reason Drury making 7mil a year cant find a his nitch with Gomez and Naslund. the tinkering was under way after the playstation line produced.
yes there is a reason. drury is a crash the net kind of center, not the playmaker naslund needs. so there is a reason why drury didnt click with naslund.

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10-31-2008, 04:48 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
As for the Prucha thing...I like Petr. I love how hard he works. I love watching him. I think he deserves to play over Fritsche. But anyone who blames Tom Renney for Petr Prucha's failing is just out of their mind. Renney is ruining his confidence? Prucha hasn't scored a freakin goal in like two years and it's Tom's fault for scratching him every couple games? Tom's supposed to say hmm well Petr you haven't scored in years but I'm not gonna ruin your confidence so get back in there! Give me a break. I appreciate the work Prucha does more than anyone but to blame his failings on Renney is just ridiculous.





Well if that was Renney's take on things Drury would be a healthy scratch in a few games as well.
The fact of the matter is that Prucha hasnt been given the chance to produce. He scored 30 goals in a season when he was getting 18 minutes of ice time with top 6 fowards along with PP time on the first unit. After taking this kid off the PP completely and reduce his time by 10 mins a game while sticking him with the likes of Betts and Hollweg last season is it really a mystery why he hasn't lit the lamp consistently?

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10-31-2008, 05:39 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by DAWESGOTPAWES View Post
yes there is a reason. drury is a crash the net kind of center, not the playmaker naslund needs. so there is a reason why drury didnt click with naslund.
I'm really trying to get us on the same page here. I'm talking about putting Drury on the RW, Gomez being the Center, and Naslund as the LW on the second line. I'm not asking Drury to set Naslund up for goals. It's more like the opposite. It's even more like having Gomez setting up Drury. What I'm saying is if you take a guy that scored 38 goals one year with Buffalo. He should be able to click with our other high priced scorer (who actually is more of an assist man) in Gomez. And then throw in Naslund, what else can Drury ask for? So if I'm the Rangers. We were lucky enough to so far find a line that can produce in the playstation line. What I'm saying is, is that our second line with two guys making a combined 77 million dollars should be able to produce and prove to Sather that he made the right moves in signing both of these guys who were brought here to help carry the load for 5 to 7 years.

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10-31-2008, 05:43 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Oh c'mon. Keenan was here for one season and he won a cup. Something how many coaches couldn't do before him? Mess was here a total of 10 years or so? Only 1 cup in NY and one ECF. I admit Iron Mike as a GM stinks but as a head coach just behind the bench he is a great coach, obviously not for all players but for most yeah. Even Mess gave Keenan credit after game 7, go watch.
Oh come on? He was lucky he won the Cup. What kind of great coach goes behinds the scenes to get his GM fired by pandering to a potential new owner group? What kind of great coach is looking for a new job while his team is in a Cup run? What kind of great coach would just attack players?

Read "Losing the Edge: The Rise and Fall of the Stanley Cup Champion New York Rangers" by Barry Meisel. You'll see the turmoil that Keenan caused — and that Messier defused. That's why the Rangers were lucky to have Messier. He was a buffer between the rest of the team and Keenan's ego/anger/disfunction. There's a reason Keenan's failed everywhere else he's been.

BTW, Keenan gave credit to Neil Smith after Game 7. We all know how that worked out — and how much he meant it.

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10-31-2008, 09:08 PM
  #85
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a great coach that goes behind the scenes to get his GM fired is one who thinks his GM isn't good. - that doesn't make him a bad coach - just a person you don't want to be around. Keenan was lucky to win the Cup? Ask Mess. First day of practice Keenan skates in and breaks the stick over the crossbar. From that day, he had everyone's attention. It was that attention and focus that was part of a winning team. Mess was a huge part of it. So was Leetch. It's odd that their success didn't come close to 1994 after Keenan left, even after decent seasons from those guys. I think Keenan was the perfect coach for that team. He isn't for every team, that's for sure, but for that team, he was. Everything came into place that season and Keenan was part of that. Heck, I remember when Kovalev was asked to name his best coaches - Keenan was tops on the list. Again, Keenan a great coach for a certain group of guys. He's not going to have great results with everyone. With the Rangers that season, he did.

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10-31-2008, 09:40 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
a great coach that goes behind the scenes to get his GM fired is one who thinks his GM isn't good. - that doesn't make him a bad coach - just a person you don't want to be around. Keenan was lucky to win the Cup? Ask Mess. First day of practice Keenan skates in and breaks the stick over the crossbar. From that day, he had everyone's attention. It was that attention and focus that was part of a winning team. Mess was a huge part of it. So was Leetch. It's odd that their success didn't come close to 1994 after Keenan left, even after decent seasons from those guys. I think Keenan was the perfect coach for that team. He isn't for every team, that's for sure, but for that team, he was. Everything came into place that season and Keenan was part of that. Heck, I remember when Kovalev was asked to name his best coaches - Keenan was tops on the list. Again, Keenan a great coach for a certain group of guys. He's not going to have great results with everyone. With the Rangers that season, he did.
Come on Fletch. A great coach does not go looking for his next job when his team is making a Cup run.

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10-31-2008, 10:53 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Come on Fletch. A great coach does not go looking for his next job when his team is making a Cup run.
No one is saying he isn't a *********, has nothing to do with his coaching ability though. Thats more of a personal problem I think, control freak which is why he never lasts in one place. Don't forget he also made it to the SCF with Chicago, it wasn't just the Rangers he did good with.

Oh thanks Singin, I didn't know about that book Loosing the Edge I am going to check it out.

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11-01-2008, 10:33 AM
  #88
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No one is saying he isn't a *********, has nothing to do with his coaching ability though. Thats more of a personal problem I think, control freak which is why he never lasts in one place. Don't forget he also made it to the SCF with Chicago, it wasn't just the Rangers he did good with.

Oh thanks Singin, I didn't know about that book Loosing the Edge I am going to check it out.
Great read. Highly recommend it.

Keenan did make it to the Cup finals twice with two different teams. Sather won Cups. Is Sather a great coach?

All I'll say is a coach who can't put the team before his own self-interest (especially during a Cup run) to me is not a great coach.

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11-01-2008, 11:43 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
a great coach that goes behind the scenes to get his GM fired is one who thinks his GM isn't good. - that doesn't make him a bad coach - just a person you don't want to be around. Keenan was lucky to win the Cup? Ask Mess. First day of practice Keenan skates in and breaks the stick over the crossbar. From that day, he had everyone's attention. It was that attention and focus that was part of a winning team. Mess was a huge part of it. So was Leetch. It's odd that their success didn't come close to 1994 after Keenan left, even after decent seasons from those guys. I think Keenan was the perfect coach for that team. He isn't for every team, that's for sure, but for that team, he was. Everything came into place that season and Keenan was part of that. Heck, I remember when Kovalev was asked to name his best coaches - Keenan was tops on the list. Again, Keenan a great coach for a certain group of guys. He's not going to have great results with everyone. With the Rangers that season, he did.
I think Keenan was lucky to win the cup just for the fact that Mario Lemieux wasn't around that year.

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11-01-2008, 08:52 PM
  #90
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Singn'...

what does looking for a job have to do with his coaching abilities? All that says is he's a bad guy, or a non-loyal guy, or he was having an internal fight with the GM he didn't think much of and figured he was geting canned at some point anyway. Regardless of the reason, it doesn't take away from his ability to coach, just as much as a bad coach who doesn't do that becomes a good coach. You can disagree about his abvility to coach, but stabbing his boss in the back and/or interviewing with other teams doesn't talk to the guy's ability to coach. I maintain he was the right guy for that team. Everything came together and he was a big part of it. Had he stayed, I think results may've been better. But that doesn't mean he would've been a good coach for other Rangers teams. Having guys who can take being challenged a respond (Mess, Richter, Graves and Leetch, in particular) are the kinds of guys who can thrive under a guy like Keenan.

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11-02-2008, 11:01 AM
  #91
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Can we stop the *** damn back up experiment versus Philly and Toronto already!?

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11-02-2008, 11:08 AM
  #92
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I think Prucha-Gomez-Callahan would work out way better. They all hustle. Trade Dawes when his stock is high along with Pissmiller.

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11-02-2008, 11:19 AM
  #93
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I think we can all agree that the power play sucks, and that Perry Pearn needs to be fired. The power play has been Pearn's job since coming back from the lockout, and it's been nothing short of craptastic since 05-06.

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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I'd rather see Renney shift the lines around now and find something that works, than have him ride the Playstation line until it breaks down and our offense implodes. If he nails some combination that brings us scoring across the board, that leaves little room to complain about his line jumbling.

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11-02-2008, 11:21 AM
  #94
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what does looking for a job have to do with his coaching abilities? All that says is he's a bad guy, or a non-loyal guy, or he was having an internal fight with the GM he didn't think much of and figured he was geting canned at some point anyway. Regardless of the reason, it doesn't take away from his ability to coach, just as much as a bad coach who doesn't do that becomes a good coach. You can disagree about his abvility to coach, but stabbing his boss in the back and/or interviewing with other teams doesn't talk to the guy's ability to coach. I maintain he was the right guy for that team. Everything came together and he was a big part of it. Had he stayed, I think results may've been better. But that doesn't mean he would've been a good coach for other Rangers teams. Having guys who can take being challenged a respond (Mess, Richter, Graves and Leetch, in particular) are the kinds of guys who can thrive under a guy like Keenan.
I think if a coach doesn't demonstrate loyalty, then his ability to coach is greatly diminished.

He might have been the right guy for the 94 Rangers but he would not have been if Messier was not there.

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11-02-2008, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I think if a coach doesn't demonstrate loyalty, then his ability to coach is greatly diminished.

He might have been the right guy for the 94 Rangers but he would not have been if Messier was not there.
Yea but I could be wrong but wasn't Messier the reason why Keenan was there in the first place. I think Messier realized that Neilson could only take this team to the second round, no matter how many Presidents trophies he won. Well anyway, Keenan made a big mistake leaving the Rangers. He hasn't done a thing since then. And to tell you the truth. The Rangers haven't either. The way things turned out at the time, maybe Keenan really did deserve the control he was looking for. I think the rise and fall of the 1994 Stanley Cup winning NY Rangers, begins and ends with Neil Smith. He made the best move by bringing in Messier to add to the core of an already good team. Then Messier left to Van. cuz of Smith too, correct? Smith then made some of the worst moves ever imaginable after the y got crushed by the Flyers in the 1997 conference finals. The team was in dire need to re build but he tried to win his way to the top with "old washed up" players making ridiculous contracts. The list goes on. If not for him, we probably could've gotten some really top notch lottery picks but because we just didn't stink enough, it never happend.

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11-03-2008, 04:41 AM
  #96
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Are you for real? I agree Gomez is not the prototypical first line center but he's been one of our best and most consistent players game after game. And you want Blair Betts to center the third line? Are you kidding me? People complain about our lack of scoring, Betts has 40 points in 271 career games! Damn man gimme some of that Halloween stuff you're smokin' today.
Yes I am for real.

Yes I think Blair Betts can play 3rd line center. He showed it on Saturday vs Leafs.
Sound defensive instincts, face off skills are key and there is no reason why we couldn't have more of those on 3rd instead of the 4th line. Betts is not scoring more
not because he can't, its because he played with like of Orr and Hollweg, Not even
Gomez would score with those guys.

Gomez is wasted as a third line center. Drury is untradeable, and Dubinsky is here to stay. I was advocating that our best trading bait is Gomez.
I am not advocating we trade him, but if we are to get a scorer of Gabby or Kovy's caliber nothing short of Gomez would do.

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11-03-2008, 04:56 AM
  #97
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Renney took a chance and broke up the lines, because only the 2nd and the 4th were working.

Result: The only line that hasn't been broken up is working (4th).

Gomez is rotting out there with Dawes at his side, give Prucha another chance. Although I am slowly getting tired of both Dawes and Prucha. How many chances are they going to need? Callahan isn't a player of the right calibre to play with Gomez, but at least he's got the speed and decent scoring touch.

Näslund and Drury needs to be broken up. They don't play well with eachother at all.

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11-03-2008, 05:38 AM
  #98
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I simply dont' understand it....that we are keep buying players who don't go well with what we have.

replacing Gomez with Nylander and now getting naslund to play with Gomez.
The player Gomez needed is standing by. Shannahan!

Gomez carries the puck through the center of ice.... he doesnt need Jagr and Naslund who would do the same.......He needs a guy who can one time and convert a decent set up pas Gomez is capable to giving.

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11-03-2008, 06:58 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
As for the Prucha thing...I like Petr. I love how hard he works. I love watching him. I think he deserves to play over Fritsche. But anyone who blames Tom Renney for Petr Prucha's failing is just out of their mind. Renney is ruining his confidence? Prucha hasn't scored a freakin goal in like two years and it's Tom's fault for scratching him every couple games? Tom's supposed to say hmm well Petr you haven't scored in years but I'm not gonna ruin your confidence so get back in there! Give me a break. I appreciate the work Prucha does more than anyone but to blame his failings on Renney is just ridiculous.
The only way he is going to get confidence back is if he plays and Renneys refuses to give him a chance.

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11-03-2008, 08:23 AM
  #100
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Singn' - I don't disagree about the Mess comment. But of course Scotty Bowman doesn't win without Yzerman, or Lidstrom, etc. Every coach needs help on the ice to win.

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