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Higgins officially back with Koivu and Tanguay (per CKAC)

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Old
10-31-2008, 04:36 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Redux91 View Post
this is the problem

guaranteed higgins plays 1 game with tanguay and koivu i call 2 goals

im sick and tired of wining these close games when we should be winning them 5-1, and you ALL know we should be, yeah yeah were 7-1 and its GREAT, but weve played bad for 60% of the games, and 3 have gone to shootouts and a couple more have been 1 goal games

we should be winning all these games by at least 2 goals , if you want to win the god damn cup, you gotta have the killer instinct, we MUST finish teams off, we MUST be ruthless, and imo, higgins with tang and capt make us VERY dangerous, so why the hell arent we trying it..

oh right.. our joke of a coach
We are among the highest scoring teams in the league.

Minnesota is no slouch team... heck Minny was 6-1-1 same record as us going into last night. They are a very good defensive squad. Still that line created chances.

I'm not seeing anything out of Higgins right now... and its not like he's playing with scrubs... Hes on an offensive line with Lang and Sergei.

As for your two goal prediction... just cause you guarantee something doesn't make it true.

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10-31-2008, 04:39 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
So you don't think that they could be playing better? They are beating teams because the Habs are a very good team with an elite offense, great defense and superstar goaltending. I realize it's early but right now we have one line carrying the team's offense. I know it's taboo to switch lines when you are winning but I don't think a little tinkering is going to send the team into chaos.
Last year we had one line carrying our offense and we finished 1st on Conference.
Andrei just got back from an injury, Plekanec has been playing much better and getting a lot of chances, it's only a matter of time for that line to start clicking again. Since we're winning, it's unnecessary to change them.
It's also not a new line, we know how dominant they can be so we can wait some more.


As for putting Higgy instead of Lats, I think it's useless to even think about it. Koivu line has been our best, and Higgy has only played 3Games..
I also feel our 3rd line would look much worse with Lats there instead of Higgins.

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10-31-2008, 06:21 PM
  #53
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Hell yes. Lats should not be on the 2nd line. That line would be sick with Tanguay, Koivu and Higgins. Lats seriously should not be there.

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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
The problem I see is that Latendresse is working out well on the Koivu line, and I donít think he works anywhere else in the lineup.
Is it possibly because the other lines aren't quiet good enough to carry Lats. I mean honestly Noone can convince me we don't have a more worthy guy in Hamilton than Lats. call up Chipchura, put him on the 3rd or 4th line and send Lats packing to Hamilton. I swear Tangs and Koivu are carrying him right now. he's not complimenting that line.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 10-31-2008 at 10:37 PM.
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10-31-2008, 06:24 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Redux91 View Post
this is the problem

guaranteed higgins plays 1 game with tanguay and koivu i call 2 goals

im sick and tired of wining these close games when we should be winning them 5-1, and you ALL know we should be, yeah yeah were 7-1 and its GREAT, but weve played bad for 60% of the games, and 3 have gone to shootouts and a couple more have been 1 goal games

we should be winning all these games by at least 2 goals , if you want to win the god damn cup, you gotta have the killer instinct, we MUST finish teams off, we MUST be ruthless, and imo, higgins with tang and capt make us VERY dangerous, so why the hell arent we trying it..

oh right.. our joke of a coach
You're right. Gainey should have hired someone who gets how hockey woreks, someone who has been around the game and knows how players at the top level react. What a moron giving this hockey neophyte the keys to the sports car.

Why do you think this team should be cruising through their games ? They have some talent, the most they've had in quite awhile. They're a pretty good team. They can compete for the top spot in their conference. They have to beat out good teams though. Blowouts ? You think they should routinely blow teams out ? Hockey doesn't work that way. Check goal differntials of the 77 Habs, 85 Oilers, consistent blowouts, no wonder I get cranky.

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10-31-2008, 06:38 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Redux91 View Post
oh right.. our joke of a coach
Sweet jesus, even a Norris Trophy nomination (and deserved win. What a joke that Awards Ceremony was) can't stop the Carbo Hate Train! It's returned! Ahhhhhh

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10-31-2008, 06:41 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by HockeyF3ind View Post
No disrespect towards Lats intended. I like the way he has been playing so far this season. But we still have not seen what a Higgins-Koivu-Tanguay line could do. I'm just curious as to how many people think that Lats is critical to that line or if Higgins couldn't fill the spot as good or possibly better. To put it simply Higgins likes to take shots, and both Koivu and Tanguay like to pass, and I feel that it might not be a bad idea to experiment with that tweak.

And FYI flamers....I'm not saying we should do this right now, since we are winning and that GAS line is performing adequately. However, I do think that if we start to falter and consequently decide to tweak the top 9 that should be the first one tried.

Thoughts?
YES! Good lord I have been saying get Lats off Koivus damn wing all season. Higgins and Koivu have real chemistry and belong on the same line with Tanguay. Put Lats on the third line or somewhere else.

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10-31-2008, 07:07 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Bloodflowers View Post
Is it possibly because the other lines aren't quiet good enough to carry Lats. I mean honestly Noone can convince me we don't have a more worthy guy in Hamilton than Lats. call up Chipchura, put him on the 3rd or 4th line and send Lats packing to Hamilton. I swear Tangs and Koivu are carrying him right now. he's not complimenting that line.
Please stop posting.

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10-31-2008, 07:24 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Please stop posting.
hahaha! Very insightful of you. Please stop posting? Are you kidding me? Can you honestly say Lats is benifiting Tanguay and Koivu? No you can't. Are they benifiting him? Sure they are. he's got some o.k. stats so far(thanks to those guys) which many of you seem to be buying into. His assists are a mini smokescreen and a week arguement for anyone who thinks he should be on the second line. Tanguay and Koivu offset what Latendress lacks at the moment. A serious forecheck and speed, the ability to finish. Anyone who watches the games on a nightly basis can see this. How does Lats fit into a 4th line role? he doesn't cause he has no work ethic whe it comes to a forecheck. he's not an energy guy or a pest so 4th line is out. What does he add to Sergie & Lang's line? Nothing but slowness. He's not the right guy on the second line so where does that leave him? In Hamilton that's where. he's had enough time to prove he's NHL calibre. Send him down and let him develope in the AHL. Give Chipchura a shot or Max. Hell rotate the three or something but it's time for Higgins to move back to the 2nd line. Lats should never have been there to begin with. You don't like that opinion, well too bad.

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10-31-2008, 07:29 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Sweet jesus, even a Norris Trophy nomination (and deserved win. What a joke that Awards Ceremony was) can't stop the Carbo Hate Train! It's returned! Ahhhhhh
It's Gainey's fault. He has a history of not thinking things through. These knee jerk decisons are going to kill the team. How could he choose Carbo without getting to know him first and judging by what he's observed. Irresponsible clown.

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10-31-2008, 08:07 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Bloodflowers View Post
hahaha! Very insightful of you. Please stop posting? Are you kidding me? Can you honestly say Lats is benifiting Tanguay and Koivu? No you can't. Are they benifiting him? Sure they are. he's got some o.k. stats so far(thanks to those guys) which many of you seem to be buying into. His assists are a mini smokescreen and a week arguement for anyone who thinks he should be on the second line. Tanguay and Koivu offset what Latendress lacks at the moment. A serious forecheck and speed, the ability to finish. Anyone who watches the games on a nightly basis can see this. How does Lats fit into a 4th line role? he doesn't cause he has no work ethic whe it comes to a forecheck. he's not an energy guy or a pest so 4th line is out. What does he add to Sergie & Lang's line? Nothing but slowness. He's not the right guy on the second line so where does that leave him? In Hamilton that's where. he's had enough time to prove he's NHL calibre. Send him down and let him develope in the AHL. Give Chipchura a shot or Max. Hell rotate the three or something but it's time for Higgins to move back to the 2nd line. Lats should never have been there to begin with. You don't like that opinion, well too bad.
You are obviously blinded by your hate towards Lats.
While he's not perfect and needs to work on his puck reception he helps the line quite often. Yesterday for example, his body check led directly to our first goal. He also made some nifty passes in his 9 minutes of play.

Suggesting that he should be in Hamilton directly from the 1st/2nd line in the big club is ridiculous. Especially after a start of 7 pts in 9 games.

The only thing I don't like from Lats is his ability to receive the puck. It's somewhat deficient but I'm sure he will improve this aspect once he gains more confidence.

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10-31-2008, 08:19 PM
  #61
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Can't help but notice Koivu and Tanguay creating alot of great scoring chances and Lats creating alot of great turnovers. Lats has had a pretty pass or two this year but he isn't keeping pace with that line at all. Higgins should get a shot considering his ability to finish.

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10-31-2008, 08:19 PM
  #62
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Change one thing, change everything. It's called the Butterfly Effect. (not a bad movie BTW)

Seriously, leave well enough alone until they need help.

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10-31-2008, 08:23 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by zx81 View Post
You are obviously blinded by your hate towards Lats.
While he's not perfect and needs to work on his puck reception he helps the line quite often. Yesterday for example, his body check led directly to our first goal. He also made some nifty passes in his 9 minutes of play.

Suggesting that he should be in Hamilton directly from the 1st/2nd line in the big club is ridiculous. Especially after a start of 7 pts in 9 games.

The only thing I don't like from Lats is his ability to receive the puck. It's somewhat deficient but I'm sure he will improve this aspect once he gains more confidence.
I'm not blinded by anything.I dont' hate Lats. Gimme a break. I find it hilarious though how some have this irrational love for him and defend the guy no matter what. If Lats was on another team people would think he's a 3rd line player at best if that. But since he's on the Habs oh it's a different story. I do think he'd be better served playing more minutes in Hamilton. I just think we have guys in the system who are better than him right now and should be playing on the Habs instead. His inclusion on the 2nd line or whatever line we're calling it, is a smoke and mirrors job. You dont' honestly believe Lats is a top 6 forward do you? If not than his demotion to Hamilton isn't such a stretch. The guy might be good someday but right now there are others who would compliment that line and others much more in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Can't help but notice Koivu and Tanguay creating alot of great scoring chances and Lats creating alot of great turnovers. Lats has had a pretty pass or two this year but he isn't keeping pace with that line at all. Higgins should get a shot considering his ability to finish.
Exactly!


Last edited by Beakermania*: 11-01-2008 at 02:49 PM.
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10-31-2008, 08:39 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Bloodflowers View Post
hahaha! Very insightful of you. Please stop posting? Are you kidding me? Can you honestly say Lats is benifiting Tanguay and Koivu? No you can't. Are they benifiting him? Sure they are. he's got some o.k. stats so far(thanks to those guys) which many of you seem to be buying into. His assists are a mini smokescreen and a week arguement for anyone who thinks he should be on the second line. Tanguay and Koivu offset what Latendress lacks at the moment. A serious forecheck and speed, the ability to finish. Anyone who watches the games on a nightly basis can see this. How does Lats fit into a 4th line role? he doesn't cause he has no work ethic whe it comes to a forecheck. he's not an energy guy or a pest so 4th line is out. What does he add to Sergie & Lang's line? Nothing but slowness. He's not the right guy on the second line so where does that leave him? In Hamilton that's where. he's had enough time to prove he's NHL calibre. Send him down and let him develope in the AHL. Give Chipchura a shot or Max. Hell rotate the three or something but it's time for Higgins to move back to the 2nd line. Lats should never have been there to begin with. You don't like that opinion, well too bad.
Do you mean that it's as insightful as suggesting to remove from the lineup our 4th scoring leader??

As insightful as bringing a centerman up to replace a winger?..
As insightful as bringing up a player that's been having problems settling in Hamilton??
As insightful as breaking up the only really productive line we've had since the beginning of the season??


I don't like your opinion cause you base it off absolutely nothing other than a general personal perspective and claim it as if it were facts.

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Originally Posted by Bloodflowers View Post
I'm not blinded by anything.I dont' hate Lats. Gimme a break. I find it hilarious though how some have this irrational love for him and defend the guy no matter what. If Lats was on another team people would think he's a 3rd line player at best if that. But since he's on the Habs oh it's a different story. I do think he'd be better served playing more minutes in Hamilton. I just think we have guys in the system who are better than him right now and should be playing on the Habs instead. His inclusion on the 2nd line or whatever line we're calling it, is a smoke and mirrors job. You dont' honestly believe Lats is a top 6 forward do you? If not than his demotion to Hamilton isn't such a stretch. The guy might be good someday but right now there are others who would compliment that line and others much more in my opinion.
As you know, we have 3Top Lines. We have the luxury of having a Top9 and not just a top3 or 6. And I do hope you think Lats is a top9 player around the league, otherwise you're just being foolish.

Therefore you need to balance your lines for the best outcome possible out of those 9 players.
The Plek line won't be changing, not for now at least.
And as you've pointed out, putting him on Lang's line wouldn't be that great because of the lack of acceleration these two players have.
So the best fit is on Koivu's line and thankfully, it all seems to be working well seeing as the 3members of that line are part of the top4 scoring leaders of our team.
Now, whomever you think is the best player on that line is completely irrelevant as hockey is a team sport. What matters is that this trio works well, and they have so far.

We have nobody in Hamilton that would be doing a better job than Lats at the moment. You're hugely mistaken.

There's 0 reason to remove him from that line, and you don't have any argument that can contradict this statement.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 10-31-2008 at 10:41 PM.
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Old
10-31-2008, 10:15 PM
  #65
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What the hell has Higgins done on the 3rd line to deserve a promotion over our third best forward scorer?! Sorry, but it's not like he's totally superior to Lang and S. Kostitsyn right now. Lats is creating/having way more chances than him.

Lats has played better than Higgins... I know, Higgins has only played three games so far, but he is far from dominating the play... Hell... Sometimes I can't even see the difference between his passes and his shots.

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10-31-2008, 10:25 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by HamrlikTheStud View Post
What the hell has Higgins done on the 3rd line to deserve a promotion over our third best forward scorer?! Sorry, but it's not like he's totally superior to Lang and S. Kostitsyn right now. Lats is creating/having way more chances than him.

Lats has played better than Higgins... I know, Higgins has only played three games so far, but he is far from dominating the play... Hell... Sometimes I can't even see the difference between his passes and his shots.
Lats might be the third highest scorer but he's nowhere close to our third 'best' forward scorer. Higgins is twice the player on both sides of the puck, IMO. The issue is whether koivu's line needs changing...it doesn't. If higgins switches with anyone it should be taking kovalev's spot on pleks line (switch sides with a.kost) and putting kovy with lang for a while. Hopefully a shot in the arm for both lines.

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10-31-2008, 10:27 PM
  #67
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A scene from the Carolina game told me all I needed to know about Higgins. He had the puck near the crease on a PP. Markov was sneaking in from the left side, rushing alone to the net. Higgins NEVER took a look. Never. It's as if he couldn't see Markov. And I believe he couldn't see him, because I truly believe the guy doesn't have a good peripheral vision.

And, guess what, he took a shot from a bad angle. Markov had an empty net.

Higgins with Koivu and Tanguay would mean that the latter would seldom see the puck, because Higgins just can't see 180 degrees. He just can't.

Of all the forwards on the first 3 lines, he's got the worst hockey vision. What would warrant a 1st line try?

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10-31-2008, 10:34 PM
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A scene from the Carolina game told me all I needed to know about Higgins. He had the puck near the crease on a PP. Markov was sneaking in from the left side, rushing alone to the net. Higgins NEVER took a look. Never. It's as if he couldn't see Markov. And I believe he couldn't see him, because I truly believe the guy doesn't have a good peripheral vision.

And, guess what, he took a shot from a bad angle. Markov had an empty net.

Higgins with Koivu and Tanguay would mean that the latter would seldom see the puck, because Higgins just can't see 180 degrees. He just can't.

Of all the forwards on the first 3 lines, he's got the worst hockey vision. What would warrant a 1st line try?
I like the hustle and the energy Higgins brings, but somehow, I find he's not a puck possession player. So the mistake here is that Higgins should never carry the puck too long... He must free himself to have good opportunities... If he frees himself, the other players will find him.

However, he's clearly not a puck possession player. I'd like to see more of him on the PK, and I'd like to see Sergei carry the puck more on this line, but he's got to be the first to the puck to do this... and now, the guy is just not paying the price.

I can't help but think Higgins is the one who would get traded if a deal was offered to get that missing piece - a great defenseman to play with Hamrlik -. Gainey has given this team a puck-possession identity, and it's just not the style Higgins plays...

However, sometimes his style of play is what it takes, depending on the team we play. I don't know... I'm so confused about this player... I don't really know what to think when I take a look at the big picture.

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10-31-2008, 10:38 PM
  #69
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Anyone who thinks lats is a better player now or will ever be in the future is seriously lacking a knowledge of hockey fundamentals.

I've been watching this team since 1975 and in my opinion, Lats AT THIS POINT is barely an NHLer, let alone a power forward with soft hands.

Like I said before, if Lats was so good, he would be on the PP instead of Higgins!

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10-31-2008, 10:45 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by HamrlikTheStud View Post
I like the hustle and the energy Higgins brings, but somehow, I find he's not a puck possession player. So the mistake here is that Higgins should never carry the puck too long... He must free himself to have good opportunities... If he frees himself, the other players will find him.

However, he's clearly not a puck possession player. I'd like to see more of him on the PK, and I'd like to see Sergei carry the puck more on this line, but he's got to be the first to the puck to do this... and now, the guy is just not paying the price.

I can't help but think Higgins is the one who would get traded if a deal was offered to get that missing piece - a great defenseman to play with Hamrlik -. Gainey has given this team a puck-possession identity, and it's just not the style Higgins plays...

However, sometimes his style of play is what it takes, depending on the team we play. I don't know... I'm so confused about this player... I don't really know what to think when I take a look at the big picture.
Higgins would be the one traded because he has the most value (assuming that we can't trade a centre and are keeping the kostys). He is the player that other GMs are asking for, they're not beating down the door for Latendresse. So far Bob Gainey has resisted letting go of higgins, probably because he's a slick skating two way player with tons of hustle and some (though not prolific) scoring touch and Bob recognizes that EVERY team can use someone like that.

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10-31-2008, 10:46 PM
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Anyone who thinks lats is a better player now or will ever be in the future is seriously lacking a knowledge of hockey fundamentals.

I've been watching this team since 1975 and in my opinion, Lats AT THIS POINT is barely an NHLer, let alone a power forward with soft hands.

Like I said before, if Lats was so good, he would be on the PP instead of Higgins!
Honestly Lats brings nothing to the table other than a big body. Almost every player had something they disticntly can do well except Lats.
- Not a great passer
- Can't take passes well or finish
- Definitly doesnt deke or gain the zone
- Doesnt grind in front of the net
- Doesnt crash and bang like someone his size should
- Not a fast skater unless you let him speed up for 5 minutes to reach his "raw" speed LMAO

Once in awhile he does that weird spinorama shot that goes in. He needs to either pick something and get good at it or get ready to lose his spot.


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10-31-2008, 10:54 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
Anyone who thinks lats is a better player now or will ever be in the future is seriously lacking a knowledge of hockey fundamentals.

I've been watching this team since 1975 and in my opinion, Lats AT THIS POINT is barely an NHLer, let alone a power forward with soft hands.

Like I said before, if Lats was so good, he would be on the PP instead of Higgins!
I don't care how long you've been following the Habs. This is the most outrageous comment I've ever come across. Ok maybe not the most outrageous, but I would say top 10.

I'm not going to get into the whole who's better Higgins or Latendresse debate. They play totally different styles and have different roles on the team.

But to call Latendresse "barely an NHL'er", only proves to me that you have not been watching his improvement over the last couple of years.

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10-31-2008, 11:19 PM
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I don't care how long you've been following the Habs. This is the most outrageous comment I've ever come across. Ok maybe not the most outrageous, but I would say top 10.

I'm not going to get into the whole who's better Higgins or Latendresse debate. They play totally different styles and have different roles on the team.

But to call Latendresse "barely an NHL'er", only proves to me that you have not been watching his improvement over the last couple of years.
Its true he's borderline. He made this team because he was cheap and showed alot of promise. He still shows promise but he has not come close to developing into a top line forward...yet. I wouldn't say he has borderline talent or physical assets because its obvious he will be a good nhl'er one day but right now he's lacking in too many areas. You could say that most teams in your league have a worse forward than Lats on their roster and you'd be right but most teams wouldn't take those players and stick them on the first line.

Its a testament to koivu and tanguay's talent and chemistry that the line can be so dangerous in spite of latendresse's lack of vision, passing and skating abilities and finish.

The kid's got a long way to go. Its not unreasonable that some fans feel that this team is too good to have a project player skating on our first line.

Higgins brings a much more polished game with a better work ethic. Something he learned with the bulldogs, IMO.

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10-31-2008, 11:36 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Krautso View Post
Its true he's borderline. He made this team because he was cheap and showed alot of promise. He still shows promise but he has not come close to developing into a top line forward...yet. I wouldn't say he has borderline talent or physical assets because its obvious he will be a good nhl'er one day but right now he's lacking in too many areas. You could say that most teams in your league have a worse forward than Lats on their roster and you'd be right but most teams wouldn't take those players and stick them on the first line.

Its a testament to koivu and tanguay's talent and chemistry that the line can be so dangerous in spite of latendresse's lack of vision, passing and skating abilities and finish.

The kid's got a long way to go. Its not unreasonable that some fans feel that this team is too good to have a project player skating on our first line.

Higgins brings a much more polished game with a better work ethic. Something he learned with the bulldogs, IMO.
I understand where you're coming from and I also understand a little where nyhabsfan is coming from as well.

Like I mentioned in my last post. I'm not going to get into a debate about who is a better overall player. It's pretty easy to see that the answer is Higgins.

What caught my attention was Latendresse being called a "borderline NHL'er". You don't score 16 goals in each of your first 2 seasons while playing 3rd line minutes if you are.

Do I think Higgins would be a better fit. Yes I do, he's already proven in the past to have great chemistry with Koivu.

But again like I mentioned in my last post. I don't think Latendresse has played himself off of Koivu's line. Obviously he could be better, so hopefully he's given another 10 games or so to see what he can do.

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10-31-2008, 11:45 PM
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zx81
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wow this thread really degenerated into a Lats bashing fest.
Typical HFBoards.

Thank God Habs are 7-1-1

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