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Higgins officially back with Koivu and Tanguay (per CKAC)

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Old
10-31-2008, 11:57 PM
  #76
Krautso
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
I understand where you're coming from and I also understand a little where nyhabsfan is coming from as well.

Like I mentioned in my last post. I'm not going to get into a debate about who is a better overall player. It's pretty easy to see that the answer is Higgins.

What caught my attention was Latendresse being called a "borderline NHL'er". You don't score 16 goals in each of your first 2 seasons while playing 3rd line minutes if you are.

Do I think Higgins would be a better fit. Yes I do, he's already proven in the past to have great chemistry with Koivu.

But again like I mentioned in my last post. I don't think Latendresse has played himself off of Koivu's line. Obviously he could be better, so hopefully he's given another 10 games or so to see what he can do.
Good post but I think lats is benefiting from the tanguay factor. We don't know what the expectations should have been for a koivu/tanguay line and right now everyone is happy with the current production (especially with the premature reports of koivu's body breaking down and his game deteriorating).

The argument I guess is there are lots of fans who think that putting a better player on that line could reap even more benefits. Since the other lines are kind of sputtering, there's really no risk of hurting the chemistry there so whats the risk?

Myself, I'm happy with the production and I'd rather see a Higgins/Lang/S.Kost line produce like I think they can to help balance the attack (also assuming the pleks line returns to form).

As for the higgins/lats debate. There is absolutely no competition. Maybe if it was a pie eating contest but hockey-wise higgins is twice the player.

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10-31-2008, 11:59 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post

What caught my attention was Latendresse being called a "borderline NHL'er". You don't score 16 goals in each of your first 2 seasons while playing 3rd line minutes if you are.

Do I think Higgins would be a better fit. Yes I do, he's already proven in the past to have great chemistry with Koivu.

But again like I mentioned in my last post. I don't think Latendresse has played himself off of Koivu's line. Obviously he could be better, so hopefully he's given another 10 games or so to see what he can do.
Lats would finish with 60 pts that they would still say he should be sent to Hamilton. Those are haters who just notice his mistakes and flaws.

That being said , I was ready to send him with Lang and Sergei 2 days ago. Mainly because I think it could make a pretty good 3rd line. Let's face it, this 3rd line is struggling right now. Sergei looks completely lost but so many are obsessed with Latendresse that they don't see other's problems.

If there is someone, right now, who doesn't totally look like NHL'er it's probably Sergei...and no I'm not suggesting to send him to Hamilton.

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10-31-2008, 11:59 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by HamrlikTheStud View Post
What the hell has Higgins done on the 3rd line to deserve a promotion over our third best forward scorer?! Sorry, but it's not like he's totally superior to Lang and S. Kostitsyn right now. Lats is creating/having way more chances than him.

Lats has played better than Higgins... I know, Higgins has only played three games so far, but he is far from dominating the play... Hell... Sometimes I can't even see the difference between his passes and his shots.

+ 888375898435789576384956456478674890456. I agree with you completely.

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Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
Anyone who thinks lats is a better player now or will ever be in the future is seriously lacking a knowledge of hockey fundamentals.

I've been watching this team since 1975 and in my opinion, Lats AT THIS POINT is barely an NHLer, let alone a power forward with soft hands.

Like I said before, if Lats was so good, he would be on the PP instead of Higgins!

What the hell Higgins has done this season (and even last season) to prove he's better than Lang and Sergei ?!?! It's not like if the guy was elite and played with two grinders. In fact, it's the opposite, 2 skilled guys playing with THE GRINDER !! That line was better with Kostopoulos, truly sad. Higgins created ZERO, Niet, Rien, Nothing so far on this line. If he's that good, he would be the catalyst of the line, which is totally out of his capabilities. The line roll only when Sergei makes it roll, not Higgins, plain and simple.

Honestly, Higgins is the most overrated Habs player I've seen in my life. Higgins fans are completely bias and wears rose glasses. Face it people, his stone hands and his lack of offensive vision makes him a solid grinder at best !! Giving his ice time and especially powerplay time, 52 points is far from good. A good player would put around 70-80 points easilly giving all the offensive opportunities Higgins had.

This season, with the offensive depth on this team, Higgins will no longer have huge powerplay time and he will barely put around 35-40 points, MARK MY WORDS !!

Also, Latendresse skills >>> Higgins skills. Higgins plays like a headless chicken running around, creating ZERO OFFENSE !! The guy can't pass to save his life and scores 1 goal out of 1000 chances. Latendresse is doing a great job on Koivu's line, so what Super Higgins would do better ?! Shoot the puck on the Goalie's chest ?! At least, Latendresse would be better in a few years, while Higgins is close to his peak already.

I'm tired of all the people defending Higgins as if he was a god or something. Some even wants to demote Latendresse that is doing good right now for a struggling Higgins ?! Just to please the wannabe 40 goals scorer ?! LOL

Enough said !!




Last edited by Erika: 11-01-2008 at 12:12 AM.
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11-01-2008, 12:29 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Krautso View Post
Good post but I think lats is benefiting from the tanguay factor. We don't know what the expectations should have been for a koivu/tanguay line and right now everyone is happy with the current production (especially with the premature reports of koivu's body breaking down and his game deteriorating).

The argument I guess is there are lots of fans who think that putting a better player on that line could reap even more benefits. Since the other lines are kind of sputtering, there's really no risk of hurting the chemistry there so whats the risk?

Myself, I'm happy with the production and I'd rather see a Higgins/Lang/S.Kost line produce like I think they can to help balance the attack (also assuming the pleks line returns to form).

As for the higgins/lats debate. There is absolutely no competition. Maybe if it was a pie eating contest but hockey-wise higgins is twice the player.

lol..nice ending to your post.

I do agree that Latendresse is benefiting from playing with Tanguay. But I also think that both Koivu and Tanguay are benefiting a little from having Latendresse on their line as well.

Ok you've probably stopped laughing so I'll continue. From watching the games so far this year, I've noticed that both Tanguay and Koivu are given a lot more space to move around and do their thing in the opponents zone. Something I don't think that Higgins would be able to do as effectively.

Another reason why I'm in no big hurry to make the switch. Lang, though not a bad skater, will never be confused with being a speedster.
Giving him 2 fast skating wingers (Higgins/S.Kost) will keep the speed level of the overall line up. By switching Latendresse and Higgins, that line loses a lot of speed and IMO would become a defensive liability.

So my point is, would Koivu's line be better with Higgins. IMO I would say yes, but I think you would weaken the 3rd line by doing it. Taking away the over all idea of having 3 solid offensive lines.

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Originally Posted by zx81 View Post
Lats would finish with 60 pts that they would still say he should be sent to Hamilton. Those are haters who just notice his mistakes and flaws.

That being said , I was ready to send him with Lang and Sergei 2 days ago. Mainly because I think it could make a pretty good 3rd line. Let's face it, this 3rd line is struggling right now. Sergei looks completely lost but so many are obsessed with Latendresse that they don't see other's problems.

If there is someone, right now, who doesn't totally look like NHL'er it's probably Sergei...and no I'm not suggesting to send him to Hamilton.
I don't understand the hate for Latendresse this year. Last year I can understand, as he just floated around and didn't really seem interested in playing. This year I've noticed his skating is better, not great, just better. Plus he seems to be getting more involved in the play and out muscling opposing players off the puck. I'd still like to see him play more like he did during that 1st training camp.

As for Sergei, he does seem a little off the last few games. But he had seemed to have early season chemistry with Lang, which I think will come back once they both get comfortable playing with Higgins. His passes and skating are still very good. So I'm not too worried about him at the moment.

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11-01-2008, 02:18 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
+ 888375898435789576384956456478674890456. I agree with you completely.




What the hell Higgins has done this season (and even last season) to prove he's better than Lang and Sergei ?!?! It's not like if the guy was elite and played with two grinders. In fact, it's the opposite, 2 skilled guys playing with THE GRINDER !! That line was better with Kostopoulos, truly sad. Higgins created ZERO, Niet, Rien, Nothing so far on this line. If he's that good, he would be the catalyst of the line, which is totally out of his capabilities. The line roll only when Sergei makes it roll, not Higgins, plain and simple.

Honestly, Higgins is the most overrated Habs player I've seen in my life. Higgins fans are completely bias and wears rose glasses. Face it people, his stone hands and his lack of offensive vision makes him a solid grinder at best !! Giving his ice time and especially powerplay time, 52 points is far from good. A good player would put around 70-80 points easilly giving all the offensive opportunities Higgins had.

This season, with the offensive depth on this team, Higgins will no longer have huge powerplay time and he will barely put around 35-40 points, MARK MY WORDS !!

Also, Latendresse skills >>> Higgins skills. Higgins plays like a headless chicken running around, creating ZERO OFFENSE !! The guy can't pass to save his life and scores 1 goal out of 1000 chances. Latendresse is doing a great job on Koivu's line, so what Super Higgins would do better ?! Shoot the puck on the Goalie's chest ?! At least, Latendresse would be better in a few years, while Higgins is close to his peak already.

I'm tired of all the people defending Higgins as if he was a god or something. Some even wants to demote Latendresse that is doing good right now for a struggling Higgins ?! Just to please the wannabe 40 goals scorer ?! LOL

Enough said !!


Um wow....I mean I agree that Sergei is a brilliant play maker...but Lats has not shown that he has superior skills to Higgins at all....Lats has certainly improved since last season, especially in skating, but not at a level that clearly demonstrates he's better than Higgins. Lets put it this way....Higgins main problem was finishing chances....he was quick and fast and skilled enough to find himself in the right place for a good many chances and if he learns to bury his chances then he could indeed be a 40 goal scorer....its a big IF....but I believe its he has definitely not peaked and could potentially settle down and finesse those chances more.

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11-01-2008, 06:03 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
+ 888375898435789576384956456478674890456. I agree with you completely.




What the hell Higgins has done this season (and even last season) to prove he's better than Lang and Sergei ?!?! It's not like if the guy was elite and played with two grinders. In fact, it's the opposite, 2 skilled guys playing with THE GRINDER !! That line was better with Kostopoulos, truly sad. Higgins created ZERO, Niet, Rien, Nothing so far on this line. If he's that good, he would be the catalyst of the line, which is totally out of his capabilities. The line roll only when Sergei makes it roll, not Higgins, plain and simple.

Honestly, Higgins is the most overrated Habs player I've seen in my life. Higgins fans are completely bias and wears rose glasses. Face it people, his stone hands and his lack of offensive vision makes him a solid grinder at best !! Giving his ice time and especially powerplay time, 52 points is far from good. A good player would put around 70-80 points easilly giving all the offensive opportunities Higgins had.

This season, with the offensive depth on this team, Higgins will no longer have huge powerplay time and he will barely put around 35-40 points, MARK MY WORDS !!

Also, Latendresse skills >>> Higgins skills. Higgins plays like a headless chicken running around, creating ZERO OFFENSE !! The guy can't pass to save his life and scores 1 goal out of 1000 chances. Latendresse is doing a great job on Koivu's line, so what Super Higgins would do better ?! Shoot the puck on the Goalie's chest ?! At least, Latendresse would be better in a few years, while Higgins is close to his peak already.

I'm tired of all the people defending Higgins as if he was a god or something. Some even wants to demote Latendresse that is doing good right now for a struggling Higgins ?! Just to please the wannabe 40 goals scorer ?! LOL

Enough said !!


You have to be smokin some seriously good stuff if you truly believe Lats skill>>>> Higgins. It's not even close!

Like I mentioned in my first thread, if this was true..why hasn't Lats played on the 1st line until this year???

Why hasn't Lats played regularly on the PP at all?

Again..don't debate with me... just watch Lats in two situations:

1, during a breakout from our zone when he is along the boards, see if he can use that large frame to shield the puck from an opposing player AND then make a pass on a stick to a streaking Koivu or Tanquay. What you'll see is Lats panick with the puck and lamely loft the puck out side the blueline.

2. Count in one game how many times he goes into a scrum in a corner and comes out with the puck.

Then we can debate further.

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11-01-2008, 06:20 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
A scene from the Carolina game told me all I needed to know about Higgins. He had the puck near the crease on a PP. Markov was sneaking in from the left side, rushing alone to the net. Higgins NEVER took a look. Never. It's as if he couldn't see Markov. And I believe he couldn't see him, because I truly believe the guy doesn't have a good peripheral vision.

And, guess what, he took a shot from a bad angle. Markov had an empty net.

Higgins with Koivu and Tanguay would mean that the latter would seldom see the puck, because Higgins just can't see 180 degrees. He just can't.

Of all the forwards on the first 3 lines, he's got the worst hockey vision. What would warrant a 1st line try?
While I've noticed Higgins has some vision issues (not the 'hockey vision' so much as actual vision issues) ... I don't think this play illustrated anything. Higgins cut to the net unexpectedly, rather than go behind the net or make the pass to Koivu behind the net. On a team that plays it too fancy on occasion, Higgins driving to the net is a good thing.

On that play, passing to Koivu behind the net as he was readying himself to pop out the other side would have been the safest play. Dealing it off past a couple of Carolina players to a streaking Markov would have been the cute play. Driving it to the net would be the strongest play, in my view.

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11-01-2008, 09:54 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by zx81 View Post
wow this thread really degenerated into a Lats bashing fest.
Typical HFBoards.
I really don't understand where this irrational Latendresse hate is coming from to be honest. To my eyes he's a great young player who's finally being productive now that the team has enough offensive depth to give him offensive linemates.

I can understand not wanting to delve into scoring rate statistics and the like (though I think that's silly), but he's also receiving "subjective" assessments from these people that not only contradict his statistical production, they also contradict the way he's playing on the ice.

He's got no passing ability, no vision, no hands, no finish, he doesn't hit... They keep repeating this in spite of all evidence to the contrary. People aren't just being ridiculously unfair to him, they're outright making stuff up, and it's so completely irrational I've kind of given up on demonstrating it. These people's minds are clearly made up and they obviously aren't swayed by facts, so I doubt anything I can write will convince them. The only reason to bring up the facts at this point is for the benefit of "third-party" viewers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
Like I mentioned in my first thread, if this was true..why hasn't Lats played on the 1st line until this year???
He has. Remember? First season while Higgins was injured? He did well, too, not bad for a 19-year-old rookie.

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Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
Why hasn't Lats played regularly on the PP at all?
Depth and experience. On the power play, older, more experienced players tend to do better than younger players. The younger players tend to do better at even-strength. That's a statistical observation, but it makes sense on the face of it; younger players have the energy to do well at even-strength, the craftier older players have more experienced they can use given the more sedate nature of a power play.

Some players are better at even-strength (like Tanguay, historically). Some players are better on the power play (Kovalev, in spades). Latendresse has so far been better at even-strength (one of the most productive ES players on the team, in fact) than on the power play.

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Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
1, during a breakout from our zone when he is along the boards, see if he can use that large frame to shield the puck from an opposing player AND then make a pass on a stick to a streaking Koivu or Tanquay.
Actually I've actually seen him done that last year, he'd take a hit but not only get the puck out and make a pass resulting in a rush, once even a two-on-one.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 11-01-2008 at 10:04 AM.
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11-01-2008, 11:24 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
You have to be smokin some seriously good stuff if you truly believe Lats skill>>>> Higgins. It's not even close!

Like I mentioned in my first thread, if this was true..why hasn't Lats played on the 1st line until this year???

Why hasn't Lats played regularly on the PP at all?

Again..don't debate with me... just watch Lats in two situations:

1, during a breakout from our zone when he is along the boards, see if he can use that large frame to shield the puck from an opposing player AND then make a pass on a stick to a streaking Koivu or Tanquay. What you'll see is Lats panick with the puck and lamely loft the puck out side the blueline.

2. Count in one game how many times he goes into a scrum in a corner and comes out with the puck.

Then we can debate further.
Actually, he's played with Koivu over the last 2seasons. Replacing Higgins 2years ago, and last year it was instead of Ryder and he did pretty well with Koivu seeing as Carbo keeps putting him by his side. Even Saku said he always played well with Lats.
Do you also forget that this kid is only 21?..he's no Crosby, he won't just come into his rookie year and be a first liner.
Did you actually expect that of him?..
So being part of the most productive line, so far, is quite good.

Now some people are giving all the credit to Tanguay/Koivu and nothing to Lats. That's just foolish. How can I take someone seriously when it says such a dumb thing.
Some people even make it sound like Lats is worse than Dandy and should be waived right away..

The hate for Lats this year is completely ridiculous.

As for his time on the PP, we have too much depth and Higgins has scored 27G last year. It's only normal for him to be there.
Lats has not been on the PP in the previous years and we finished 1st. With the depth added this year, it's hard to make room for him in a little 2min.

I fail to see how your 2 ''points'' sum up his skills.
I can tell you watch how many times Higgins takes bad decisions, such as shooting in the goalies chest or not seeing the passing lane. I can tell you look at how many chances he misses too.
So? Does that mean he's bad?..Of course not. The same can be said about Lats with what you bring up.

Even more so, Lats actually uses his body a lot better, and creates a lot of room for Tanguay and Saku. He also ditched out some nice passes that led to goals. Seeing as he's with 2playmakers, sometimes he'll try passing instead of shooting. That's just normal when you play with such great players, you tend to try doing too much.
But if he was half as bad as some of you make it seem, I think Carbo would have noticed it too and take him out of there.

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11-01-2008, 12:52 PM
  #85
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Actually, he's played with Koivu over the last 2seasons. Replacing Higgins 2years ago, and last year it was instead of Ryder and he did pretty well with Koivu seeing as Carbo keeps putting him by his side. Even Saku said he always played well with Lats.
Do you also forget that this kid is only 21?..he's no Crosby, he won't just come into his rookie year and be a first liner.
Did you actually expect that of him?..
So being part of the most productive line, so far, is quite good.

Now some people are giving all the credit to Tanguay/Koivu and nothing to Lats. That's just foolish. How can I take someone seriously when it says such a dumb thing.
Some people even make it sound like Lats is worse than Dandy and should be waived right away..

The hate for Lats this year is completely ridiculous.

As for his time on the PP, we have too much depth and Higgins has scored 27G last year. It's only normal for him to be there.
Lats has not been on the PP in the previous years and we finished 1st. With the depth added this year, it's hard to make room for him in a little 2min.

I fail to see how your 2 ''points'' sum up his skills.
I can tell you watch how many times Higgins takes bad decisions, such as shooting in the goalies chest or not seeing the passing lane. I can tell you look at how many chances he misses too.
So? Does that mean he's bad?..Of course not. The same can be said about Lats with what you bring up.

Even more so, Lats actually uses his body a lot better, and creates a lot of room for Tanguay and Saku. He also ditched out some nice passes that led to goals. Seeing as he's with 2playmakers, sometimes he'll try passing instead of shooting. That's just normal when you play with such great players, you tend to try doing too much.
But if he was half as bad as some of you make it seem, I think Carbo would have noticed it too and take him out of there.
Alex Tanguay, LW 9 6 5 11
Saku Koivu, C 9 4 6 10
Guillaume Latendresse, RW 9 1 6 7

The kid has one goal in nine games playing with our two best playmakers. Is it that much of a stretch to think that someone else could improve on that production?

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11-01-2008, 01:00 PM
  #86
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Once again, I don't want to bash Higgins... but in the last 2 years, name me one line going on a hot streak having Higgins as a part of it...

The good thing with Lats is that as soon he has the puck, he gives it back to Koivu and Tanguay, who are the two best players on that line, and that's not even close.

Higgins would often try to hog the puck, which would result yet in another shot on the goalie's chest. Tanguay and Koivu would have the puck way less often, which is not a good thing, because both players are miles ahead both Latendresse and Higgins.

Higgins has some tools to be a better player yet, but he has to use them better...

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11-01-2008, 01:00 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Krautso View Post
Alex Tanguay, LW 9 6 5 11
Saku Koivu, C 9 4 6 10
Guillaume Latendresse, RW 9 1 6 7

The kid has one goal in nine games playing with our two best playmakers. Is it that much of a stretch to think that someone else could improve on that production?
I thought Koivu was a 3rd liner at this stage.

Anyway, guess how many goals Pleks & AKost have on our top line + PP? I say wait a few games & see if the goals come. To all these guys.

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11-01-2008, 01:28 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Krautso View Post
Alex Tanguay, LW 9 6 5 11
Saku Koivu, C 9 4 6 10
Guillaume Latendresse, RW 9 1 6 7

The kid has one goal in nine games playing with our two best playmakers. Is it that much of a stretch to think that someone else could improve on that production?
Alex Tanguay, 9gp 11 p
Saku Koivu, 9gp 10p
Guillaume Latendresse, 9 gp 7p

Akost 7 gp 2 p
Plekanec 9 gp 3 p
Kovalev 9 gp 6 p

SKosty 9 gp 4 p ( 3 of the 4 points in just one game )
Lang 9 gp 6 p
Higgins 3 gp 1 p

HF Board position ; dismantel the line that is going well because Latendresse is the problem .

Quote:
Originally Posted by HamrlikTheStud View Post
Once again, I don't want to bash Higgins... but in the last 2 years, name me one line going on a hot streak having Higgins as a part of it...

The good thing with Lats is that as soon he has the puck, he gives it back to Koivu and Tanguay, who are the two best players on that line, and that's not even close.

Higgins would often try to hog the puck, which would result yet in another shot on the goalie's chest. Tanguay and Koivu would have the puck way less often, which is not a good thing, because both players are miles ahead both Latendresse and Higgins.

Higgins has some tools to be a better player yet, but he has to use them better...
Higgins Plekanec Akost was a very very hot line for the second part of the season 2007 .

To me it 's clear that for now , Carbo just needs to be patient ; Both Higgins and AKost are comming back from an injury , so it will take few games ( at least for Higgins ) to find their shape .


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 11-01-2008 at 01:38 PM.
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11-01-2008, 01:47 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by 100th View Post
Alex Tanguay, 9gp 11 p
Saku Koivu, 9gp 10p
Guillaume Latendresse, 9 gp 7p

Akost 7 gp 2 p
Plekanec 9 gp 3 p
Kovalev 9 gp 6 p

SKosty 9 gp 4 p ( 3 of the 4 points in just one game )
Lang 9 gp 6 p
Higgins 3 gp 1 p

HF Board position ; dismantel the line that is going well because Latendresse is the problem .



Higgins Plekanec Akost was a very very hot line for the second part of the season 2007 .

To me it 's clear that for now , Carbo just needs to be patient ; Both Higgins and AKost are comming back from an injury , so it will take few games ( at least for Higgins ) to find their shape .
Are you crazy ? WEanting to do the sensible thing and allow players to round into shape ? You're a disgrace to hf. We don't, we don't, we don't ever use a common sense approach.

We choose players that we like and find ways to show them in the most positive light, and choose those that we don't like and show the negative.

Could we say that Tanguay and Koivu seem to have a positive effect on each other ? No, player a is making player b look good. Could Latendresse be doing som ethings to help them ? Well it depnds on what solitude you've chosen.

How about Higgins, can his staright ahead up and down play, help other players to play their game ? You know, doing the dirty work along the boards to get the puck out of the zone to let a crafty player liuke S.Kost. do his thing ? No of course not, one of them has to suck.


Out of all of this stupidity, and there has been a lot, I took notice of a comment.

Mike8, you mentionned actual vison, what do you mean ? You think the guy's actually having a hard time finding pucks in his feet, that kind of thing ? I read about a player this week who started wearing contacts and has found a huge differnce in his game, though I can't remember who it was.

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11-01-2008, 02:10 PM
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Milan Lucic

Answer to mcphee's question.

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11-01-2008, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Are you crazy ? WEanting to do the sensible thing and allow players to round into shape ? You're a disgrace to hf. We don't, we don't, we don't ever use a common sense approach.

We choose players that we like and find ways to show them in the most positive light, and choose those that we don't like and show the negative.

Could we say that Tanguay and Koivu seem to have a positive effect on each other ? No, player a is making player b look good. Could Latendresse be doing som ethings to help them ? Well it depnds on what solitude you've chosen.

How about Higgins, can his staright ahead up and down play, help other players to play their game ? You know, doing the dirty work along the boards to get the puck out of the zone to let a crafty player liuke S.Kost. do his thing ? No of course not, one of them has to suck.


Out of all of this stupidity, and there has been a lot, I took notice of a comment.

Mike8, you mentionned actual vison, what do you mean ? You think the guy's actually having a hard time finding pucks in his feet, that kind of thing ? I read about a player this week who started wearing contacts and has found a huge differnce in his game, though I can't remember who it was.
The wait and see approach is a valid one but everyone notices that something is lacking up front in terms of offensive chemistry and production. We can wait until that eventually costs us games or we can speculate on what can be done to fix it. People who agree that MTL has a top 9 instead of a top 6 should also agree that there are a wide variety of options open to the coaching staff and if things look out of sync they can make changes. Just because we won the last game does not mean everything is right offensively. Price and the pk won that last game, stole it really. Perhaps now that the team is completely healthy carbo can try to find a winning formula that utilizes all of our forwards to the best of their abilities?

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11-01-2008, 02:20 PM
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For all of you's information, I was not bashing Higgins. I just said that being the player he is, he should try to give the puck as soon as possible entering the offensive zone, and try to find a spot in front of the net where he'll pot in a few goals. When he was having more success between March 2006 and November 2006, that's exactly what he was doing. Out of his 82 goals in the league, I'm sure about 65 have been scored in a situation where he was doing what I said : i.e. giving the puck to a teammate, going to the net, and waiting for a pass/rebound. He's a fast player, and that's why he could free himself so easily to be alone in front of the opponent's goalie. However, when he has the puck, he'll rarely be able to take a good shot, because 1 on 1, he is worst than Latendresse IMO. His strenght is the ability he has to free himself just at the right spot. But as long as he'll keep on trying to carry the puck in the offensive zone, he'll never be effective as he was a couple of years ago.

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11-01-2008, 02:30 PM
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I'd rather see a Higgins and Kostitsyn switch. Put Higgins with Lang and Kovalev, and the two Kostitsyn's with Plekanec.

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11-01-2008, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by HamrlikTheStud View Post
For all of you's information, I was not bashing Higgins. I just said that being the player he is, he should try to give the puck as soon as possible entering the offensive zone, and try to find a spot in front of the net where he'll pot in a few goals. When he was having more success between March 2006 and November 2006, that's exactly what he was doing. Out of his 82 goals in the league, I'm sure about 65 have been scored in a situation where he was doing what I said : i.e. giving the puck to a teammate, going to the net, and waiting for a pass/rebound. He's a fast player, and that's why he could free himself so easily to be alone in front of the opponent's goalie. However, when he has the puck, he'll rarely be able to take a good shot, because 1 on 1, he is worst than Latendresse IMO. His strenght is the ability he has to free himself just at the right spot. But as long as he'll keep on trying to carry the puck in the offensive zone, he'll never be effective as he was a couple of years ago.
You made agoo dpoint in that you don't consider him a puck possession player. Fair enough, he is a very North American north south player,imo on a team that plays a lot of east west. The lw'ers job on that line to play puck retrieval, run picks, and be available down low. He also has dirty work low in his own zone.

In most of these areas, I think Higgins is a bit better than Lats. He isn't stronger on the puck but he arrives sooner. You can argue good hands bad hands, but until Lats scores 25+, it's only talk. One guy has done it, and the other guy hopefully will soon.

So, all that to say that imo, Higgins is just flat out a better player at this point. That doesn't mean that changing anything is warranted at this point though. Higgins is 3 games in after missing camp. He has a bit of history with his rw, but not with his C. Keeping things the same will lower Higgins numbers, but may help the team. If Lats can play well on the line he's on, it has a domino effect, allows more defensive beef on Lang's line and so on.

If I was Higgins, I'd want to play with Koivu and maximize my numbers, it's a contract year. The next 5 games will dictate,imo. I don't say wait and see just to say it, I think players have to grow into roles and it takes time.

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Originally Posted by Krautso View Post
The wait and see approach is a valid one but everyone notices that something is lacking up front in terms of offensive chemistry and production. We can wait until that eventually costs us games or we can speculate on what can be done to fix it. People who agree that MTL has a top 9 instead of a top 6 should also agree that there are a wide variety of options open to the coaching staff and if things look out of sync they can make changes. Just because we won the last game does not mean everything is right offensively. Price and the pk won that last game, stole it really. Perhaps now that the team is completely healthy carbo can try to find a winning formula that utilizes all of our forwards to the best of their abilities?
I don't think the team's played well, but I think some guys have to work things out on their own. A.Kost isn't 100%, neither is Higgins after missing camp. S.Kost. has struggled the last 3 or 4 games. Plekanec shows signs of getting it together and all you can do is wait.

I don't want to sound accepting of poor play, I just don't believe that juggling is necessarily the answer. Deep down, I think that there's a Koivu-Higgins magnet and they'll end up together, but now, I'd rather Lats grows up a bit and gets confidence playing with Tanguay and Koivu.


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11-01-2008, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Mike8, you mentionned actual vison, what do you mean ? You think the guy's actually having a hard time finding pucks in his feet, that kind of thing ? I read about a player this week who started wearing contacts and has found a huge differnce in his game, though I can't remember who it was.
Yeah, I've long suspected Higgins has issues with his vision. There have been more than a few occasions that Higgins can't find the puck in his feet (or elsewhere) or that he seems to be missing some idea of where teammates are on the ice due to vision.

But that's as speculative as it comes... just something I've noticed and can't attribute to anything else.

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11-01-2008, 03:03 PM
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Latendresse has a better touch around the net, is bigger and more physical, and is a natural RW. This makes him a better fit on a line with Koivu and Tanguay IMO. Higgins is good two-way foil who is probably better served acting as a defensive conscience than as a scorer. I honestly think he could be a great LW for Lang and Kovalev. He is a good forechecker and an excellent skater who can dig out pucks, get back and help defensively and chip in some goals. A. Kostitsyn and Plekanec play well together, and I think the Brothers could work some magic if given the chance...

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11-01-2008, 03:05 PM
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Lol; people want to send our 4th leading scorer (third amongst forwards) to Hamilton.

This is despite the fact that he has played too many games to go down without going on waivers first.

Do you people seriously think Latendresse would clear waivers without being picked up. 29 GMs would put in a waiver calim for a 21 year old with his resume, and price tag.

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11-01-2008, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by nas26 View Post
Latendresse has a better touch around the net, is bigger and more physical, and is a natural RW. This makes him a better fit on a line with Koivu and Tanguay IMO. Higgins is good two-way foil who is probably better served acting as a defensive conscience than as a scorer. I honestly think he could be a great LW for Lang and Kovalev. He is a good forechecker and an excellent skater who can dig out pucks, get back and help defensively and chip in some goals. A. Kostitsyn and Plekanec play well together, and I think the Brothers could work some magic if given the chance...
I don't see how Lats is a better finisher when Higgins has scored in the top 20 or so at his position and Lats hasn't ? Are we not playing the prospect game and pencilling in potential goals before actual goals. Higgins and A.Kost. got 27 or so last year. Until Lats does it,....., and I'm a fan of the kid.

btw, I've always wondered how he'd look on the right, same with Higgins, why do you say Lats is a natural rw'er ?

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11-01-2008, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I don't see how Lats is a better finisher when Higgins has scored in the top 20 or so at his position and Lats hasn't ? Are we not playing the prospect game and pencilling in potential goals before actual goals. Higgins and A.Kost. got 27 or so last year. Until Lats does it,....., and I'm a fan of the kid.

btw, I've always wondered how he'd look on the right, same with Higgins, why do you say Lats is a natural rw'er ?
Latendresse belongs on the RW. Let's first try him on RW with Saku and Tanguay before putting him back with Lang and S.Kost.

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I'd rather see a Higgins and Kostitsyn switch. Put Higgins with Lang and Kovalev, and the two Kostitsyn's with Plekanec.
That might happen if the actual Plekanec's line is not producing more in the next few games.

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11-01-2008, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I don't see how Lats is a better finisher when Higgins has scored in the top 20 or so at his position and Lats hasn't ? Are we not playing the prospect game and pencilling in potential goals before actual goals. Higgins and A.Kost. got 27 or so last year. Until Lats does it,....., and I'm a fan of the kid.

btw, I've always wondered how he'd look on the right, same with Higgins, why do you say Lats is a natural rw'er ?
I guess I'm just basing my opinion on what I've seen. Lats is pretty nifty around the goal, and Higgins sometimes plays with blinders on. I know he hasn't scored as many goals as Higgins, but he hasn't had the minutes or PP time either and is only 21. If it's a question of hands and offensive skill, I just think Lats is better. Higgins has always been a great role player, leader and mid-level scorer [college, AHL, NHL], but has never put up the kind of points that make you think he is real offensively minded. Lats was pretty much an elite scorer in Junior and has shown flashes in his first 2+ years in the Bigs, which makes me think that his ceiling is a lot higher.

As for him being a natural RW, I may have made that up. I thought I remembered him playing that side in Junior, but I could be wrong. Both he and A. Kostitsyn would get more scoring chances playing on their off-wing IMO [left handed shots].

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