HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

DET - PIT Trade

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-03-2008, 01:34 AM
  #1
FissionFire
Registered User
 
FissionFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Country: United States
Posts: 10,734
vCash: 500
DET - PIT Trade

I'm sure neither team would be trading key players, but I'm more interested in how this deal works out in terms of value. Is it even? Too much one way or another? How would you balance it out? I've included the contract details past this current season for a frame of reference:

To DET
Evgeni Malkin (5yr/8.7M per)
Darryl Sydor (UFA)

To PIT
Pavel Datsyuk (5yr/6.7M per)
Nicklas Kronwall (3yr/3M per)

The reason Sydor is included in the deal is to help balance out the contracts for this season since Malkin only has a cap hit of roughly 3.8M this season and the Pens need to throw in a salary dump to fit the two Detroit players under the cap and Sydor's 2.5M is plenty to do it while also giving Detroit about 2M in additional cap space for this season to allow them more roster flexibility to recall players from the minors (Helm, Leino, Ericsson, etc.)

In this deal, Detroit gets some small cap relief this season and a young budding star signed long term who can be the face of the franchise in the event Zetterberg bolts in free agency. Pittsburgh gets an established star player with strong two-way play and 2 Cups who can raise the level of his linemates and create a strong second line to Crosby who is signed long term to a bargain contract. They also get a top pairing caliber defenseman who is second on Detroit in icetime, is a strong two-way player capable of delivering big hits, is an established puckmover, is capable of being a PP QB, and also has several more years left on a bargain contract.

Please don't make pointless replies like "Why would PIT/DET do this?". Just assume that it's on the table and that it could happen and just determine the relative values of the players. I look forward to reading the (hopefully) intelligent responces.

FissionFire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 01:42 AM
  #2
backs4mvp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Burlington, On
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,910
vCash: 500
Pittburgh has ~750k in cap space, if I'm right. Malkin and Sydor together make less then Datsyuk this year.

backs4mvp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 01:47 AM
  #3
FissionFire
Registered User
 
FissionFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Country: United States
Posts: 10,734
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by backs4mvp View Post
Pittburgh has ~750k in cap space, if I'm right. Malkin and Sydor together make less then Datsyuk this year.
That tight really? For some reason I thought they had a couple million to spare.

Well, just assume it's a trade in the offseason then. Or toss in some spare parts to even out the salaries better.

FissionFire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 01:49 AM
  #4
Ollie Weeks
Registered User
 
Ollie Weeks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sioux Lookout, NWO
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,802
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by backs4mvp View Post
Pittburgh has ~750k in cap space, if I'm right. Malkin and Sydor together make less then Datsyuk this year.
Malkin's base salary is under a million. Its his cap hit that is about 3.8 million.

EDIT: I understand now.


Last edited by Ollie Weeks: 11-03-2008 at 01:51 AM. Reason: Wasn't aware Pittsburgh was up **** creek in terms of cap space.
Ollie Weeks is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 01:52 AM
  #5
jmelm
HFBoards Sponsor
 
jmelm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,495
vCash: 500
No thanks.

Malkin is probably better than Datsyuk right now, is 5 years younger, has higher upside, and is signed longer term.

Kronwall is not enough to make up that difference.

jmelm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 01:54 AM
  #6
Brandinho
Registered User
 
Brandinho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: República de Cuba
Country: Cuba
Posts: 10,271
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Brandinho Send a message via Skype™ to Brandinho
We lose the best player in the deal, who's also the youngest and the cheapest and I really cannot stand Kronwall, so no thanks.

Brandinho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 01:58 AM
  #7
hpheikki
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 360
vCash: 500
One of the best Malkin offers I have seen for a while. I think, Detroit should add a pick or a prospect to the offer...

hpheikki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 03:05 AM
  #8
matt trick
Registered User
 
matt trick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 7,862
vCash: 500
Far and away the best offer I have seen for Malkin, but I think both teams say no.

matt trick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 05:38 AM
  #9
SomeDude
Registered User
 
SomeDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Pittsburghish
Posts: 5,704
vCash: 500
Add in a couple Swedish scouts and I'm down.

SomeDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 05:48 AM
  #10
Morozov
The Devil Killer
 
Morozov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,287
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Morozov
Not enough to make the Pens move Malkin. If the Pens were to move Malkin the deal would need to absolutely blow Sheros mind and this most certainly does not. Something that gets overlooked around here is you won't get Malkin for fair value because for what is perceived as even value their is no incentive for the Pens to move Malkin. This is something that can not be overlooked. Malkin is a much better asset than Datsyuk (I said asset people not player so don't go jumping on that) and Kronwall does not make up the difference. Also we have Gonchar, Whitney, Letang, Goligoski, Orpik so downgrading Malkin to upgrade at a position where we have plenty for a long time makes no sense. Another disclaimer, I am not saying any of those guys are or are not better than Kronwall I am just illustrating the point that defense is not a point of weakness. I applaud the op for making one of the better Malkin proposals and putting more effort in than most do BUT the fact remains that Malkin is not going anywhere and if he does then it will take a deal that would cripple the team trading for Malkin. Don't bother responding with some crap about what Thornton went for or what Luongo went for etc because the situations are not comparable.

Seriously there are like 5 Malkin proposals on the 1st page of the trades forum yet there is absolutely zero reason for him to be getting moved. We had the endless Malkin proposals when everyone told us he was going to demand too much money, we had the endless proposals based on him apparently bolting to Russia, we had the proposals based on him not wanting to play second fiddle to Sid. Now that all of these issues have been proven wrong why do we still have proposal after proposal after proposal for Malkin. Why does nobody make proposals for Ovechkin or Crosby? once you answer that question apply that same answer any time somebody out there thinks about making a Malkin proposal.


Last edited by Morozov: 11-03-2008 at 05:58 AM.
Morozov is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 06:14 AM
  #11
BillyShoe1721
Terriers
 
BillyShoe1721's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,724
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to BillyShoe1721
Don't think either team does it.

BillyShoe1721 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 06:30 AM
  #12
Michael Scofield
Registered User
 
Michael Scofield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Gatineau
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,459
vCash: 500
Im close to saying its a very good trade, perhaps more inclined to say a good start. possibly remove Kronwall and add Filppula.

Michael Scofield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 07:37 AM
  #13
Alpha190
Registered User
 
Alpha190's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 386
vCash: 500
Detroit won't do this trade, 6.7M cap hit in Datsyuk who is an elite two-way player against a elite offensive threat. Only upside is the young age of Malkin

And you got a future franchise dman in Kronwall for Sydor who won't crack a injurry free Pens.


Detroit says no thank you!

Alpha190 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 07:38 AM
  #14
SCUDeriMISSILE
We traded Staal
 
SCUDeriMISSILE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,136
vCash: 500
This trade is pretty close in value. I'm not sure either team would do it, but this is a very good proposal value-wise.

Pitt doesn't do it because they give up the better player (based on age, upside, etc.) just to bring in a 2nd pairing d-man. We have enough D-men once Gonch and Whitney return.

Detroit doesn't do it because they have Datsyuk signed to a great contract, he's already engrained in the system and the organization, and Kronwall fits their system nicely.

SCUDeriMISSILE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 07:40 AM
  #15
Filppula
Jurks
 
Filppula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,554
vCash: 500
Why would we trade Datsyuk?

Filppula is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 08:10 AM
  #16
Bash3r
 
Bash3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Artic Circle
Country: Sweden
Posts: 143
vCash: 500
'Cuz Malkin is younger, better and cheaper?

Bash3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 08:15 AM
  #17
zecke26
Registered User
 
zecke26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,273
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash3r View Post
'Cuz Malkin is younger, better and cheaper?
not better for detroit at the moment. malkin doesn't fit into the wings system while datsyuk does.

this proposal makes no sense for both sides.

zecke26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 08:21 AM
  #18
Riffo*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 3,226
vCash: 500
Don't know why the Wings would trade their best player, breaking up the Hossa-Holmstrom-Datsyuk line and their only defenseman who will still on the team in 4 years.

Riffo* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 09:04 AM
  #19
ArGarBarGar
Global Moderator
Defense Please
 
ArGarBarGar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 25,557
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morozov View Post
Why does nobody make proposals for Ovechkin or Crosby? once you answer that question apply that same answer any time somebody out there thinks about making a Malkin proposal.
Crosby and Ovenchkin are the faces of their respective franchises. Malkin is not.

Though I don't see why Datsyuk would be traded because him and Zetterberg are the two icons of Detroit hockey right now.

ArGarBarGar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 09:40 AM
  #20
Redwingsfan
Global Moderator
What rust??
 
Redwingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: Norway
Posts: 19,075
vCash: 500
Awards:
Send a message via MSN to Redwingsfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Don't think either team does it.
Me neither, but IMO its a good proposal.. The value seems fair..

Redwingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 09:40 AM
  #21
solo16
Registered User
 
solo16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 3,576
vCash: 500
Nice fair proposal. I think the Pens think long and hard on this one.

I think its a fair return for Detroit but I think they decline on purely chemsitry reasons. First Malkin makes more then Lidstrom which makes resigning other players harder. Second I dont care what anyone says Dats is the better player today. Points do not equal better. We are talking about a perenial Top 10 Point scorer who is the best defensive forward in the league signed to a great contract.

Another thing to consider is sure Pit needs Kronwall now but what about when they get healthy? This deal makes Pit much better this year and for the next couple years however. I think push come to shove with Pits salary structure they make it happen. Contend for the cup for years to come with Kronwall/Dats/Crosby all signed relatively long term.

solo16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 09:42 AM
  #22
solo16
Registered User
 
solo16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 3,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claude Julien View Post
Don't know why the Wings would trade their best player, breaking up the Hossa-Holmstrom-Datsyuk line and their only defenseman who will still on the team in 4 years.

Um stuart, Rafalski and kronwall's contracts all expire the same year.

solo16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 11:15 AM
  #23
Get To Our Game
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Get To Our Game's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 5,103
vCash: 500
Contrary to popular belief, Pittsburgh's defense actually doesn't need much help right now. It's the offense that's anemic. They're tied for 6th in the league in goals against/ game while missing 2 of their top defenders. The proposal isn't bad, and actually makes sense (), but I can see why both teams would want to say no.


Last edited by Get To Our Game: 11-03-2008 at 03:52 PM.
Get To Our Game is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 11:20 AM
  #24
cassius
Registered User
 
cassius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,020
vCash: 500
No way. Malkin >>>> Datsyuk

Overall though, the value seems about right, but it just doesn't fill a need. Kronwall is a good defenseman too, but we don't need any more D.

We already have:
Gonchar
Whitney
Orpik
Letang
Goligoski
Gill
Scuderi
Eaton

cassius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2008, 11:33 AM
  #25
solo16
Registered User
 
solo16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 3,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cassius View Post
No way. Malkin >>>> Datsyuk
The cup finals disagree with you... Hell last season disagrees with you. There are a handful of players in the league that can even be mentioned next to Dats since the lockout he is a model of consistency.

That being said Crosby>Dats

solo16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:12 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.