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Old
11-03-2008, 11:53 AM
  #101
ChuckyToGally
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
First, no way Colorado does that.

Second, Montreal has no need for another winger. What would happen, Latendresse goes to the fourth line?
First, I talked with a few Avs fans who were saying that they would consider those deals (they aren't the GM but I don't think that my proposal is bad).

Second, the point would be to trade Latendresse in a deal for a d-man since Wolski is an upgrade over Lats.

Like I said, it's just an idea.

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Old
11-03-2008, 12:44 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Megaforce View Post
And frankly Komi doesn't look nearly as scary as he used to. It looks like Komi got shrunk in the 17 th sequel of a Rick Moranis movie.

The rest of Apostrphe's game will come around. He just has to bang the puck up the boards, cover guys in the slot and the rest will take care of itself.
I noticed that about Komi as well. Last year you could accept that he was among the league leaders in hits, but this year I don't know if he's actually thrown the 40 hits he's been credited with. There have been games where it really looked like he threw 1 or 2 hits at most. He doesn't impose himself physically like he did.

However, his shot blocking and his stick work have improved. He was good at shot blocking last year, but he seems to have perfected his craft this year to the point where it looks incredibly difficult for the opposition to get pucks by him. And his stick checking and digging for the puck along the boards also seem to be more effective. It's not as much fun to watch, but it looks like it's effective because in the end he's doing the same thing; he's separating his opponent from the puck.

As for O'Byrne, I think he needs to calm down and start thinking he belongs. He's running around too much when he doesn't have the puck, and when he does get the puck it looks as though he has no clue what to do. I do think he's improved his skating and in the preseason his puck skills looked okay. If he defers to Hamrlik and plays a more restrained game, I think he'll make fewer mistakes.

That said, it has been incredibly frustrating to watch him ice the puck time after time, and there have been times where he really looked out of place in the up-tempo north-south system Carbo's playing. But he'll get there, it looks as though a big part of his struggles are a confidence thing. He just needs to string together a few mistake free games in a row.

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11-03-2008, 12:57 PM
  #103
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Brisebois trivia

Brisebois was on the ice for how many opponents goals in his 8 games ?



.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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The answer is 2.
Both in the same game, against the Ducks.
He still finished even in this game.

So he wasn't on the ice for any opponent goal in his 7 other games.
(Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think so).

So all this Brisebois bashing is extremely exaggerated.

Not saying he has been playing amazingly well but he certainly was better than O'byrne. Yes he created some turnovers but they haven't been costly.

But hey it's so cool to bash Breezer.

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Old
11-03-2008, 12:58 PM
  #104
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Brisebois > OB so far...

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11-03-2008, 12:59 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zx81 View Post
Brisebois was on the ice for how many opponents goals in his 8 games ?



.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

The answer is 2.
Both in the same game, against the Ducks.
He still finished even in this game.

So he wasn't on the ice for any opponent goal in his 7 other games.
(Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think so).

So all this Brisebois bashing is extremely exaggerated.

Not saying he has been playing amazingly well but he certainly was better than O'byrne. Yes he created some turnovers but they haven't been costly.

But hey it's so cool to bash Breezer.
Just cause his mistakes haven't resulted in goals doesn't meant they weren't big or potentially big.... See Belanger Breakaway in the third period of a one goal game.

Jesus

Him and O'Byrne are about the same right now.... the goalies have come up a little bigger on Breezers giveaways/errors than O'byrnes but what can you do... its a small sample size... over the course of the year we will see more go in if he keeps playing this way.

I'm still better seeing O'Byrne try to learn from the errors than to see Breezy make the same mistakes he made 15 years ago and never learned from.

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11-03-2008, 01:04 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zx81 View Post
Brisebois was on the ice for how many opponents goals in his 8 games ?



.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

The answer is 2.
Both in the same game, against the Ducks.
He still finished even in this game.

So he wasn't on the ice for any opponent goal in his 7 other games.
(Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think so).

So all this Brisebois bashing is extremely exaggerated.

Not saying he has been playing amazingly well but he certainly was better than O'byrne. Yes he created some turnovers but they haven't been costly.

But hey it's so cool to bash Breezer.
I think that this should be more for Markov than Brisebois. Markov leads the NHL for giveways....but HIS giveaways weren't that problematic or didn't really create serious scoring chances aside from a couple. Just that everytime Brisebois does something wrong, it has to be so damn evident, though he seems to be more careful about those long passes that get caught in the middle resulting in breakways....but he's still beaten along the boards, he still give a lot of job to Hammer who suddenly looks a little bad 'cause he has to pick up either Brisebois' mistakes or O'Byrnes'...and offensively, Brisebois didn't do anything so far....

But I also think the bashing also means that in order to become that force we would like to be, we understand that it takes a #4.....and if Gorges would play there, there woudln't take a long time before he's bashed as well....

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Old
11-03-2008, 01:12 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Just cause his mistakes haven't resulted in goals doesn't meant they weren't big or potentially big.... See Belanger Breakaway in the third period of a one goal game.

Jesus

Him and O'Byrne are about the same right now.... the goalies have come up a little bigger on Breezers giveaways/errors than O'byrnes but what can you do... its a small sample size... over the course of the year we will see more go in if he keeps playing this way.

I'm still better seeing O'Byrne try to learn from the errors than to see Breezy make the same mistakes he made 15 years ago and never learned from.
I have just sais the same to my dad

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Old
11-03-2008, 01:13 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Just cause his mistakes haven't resulted in goals doesn't meant they weren't big or potentially big.... See Belanger Breakaway in the third period of a one goal game.

Jesus

Him and O'Byrne are about the same right now.... the goalies have come up a little bigger on Breezers giveaways/errors than O'byrnes but what can you do... its a small sample size... over the course of the year we will see more go in if he keeps playing this way.

I'm still better seeing O'Byrne try to learn from the errors than to see Breezy make the same mistakes he made 15 years ago and never learned from.
I totally agree ... but at 750 k , breezer is a very good assurance policy... the REAL problem is that Obyrne's progression seems to have slowed down, for some reason.... I thought he would end up being just like komi, but he still has a hard time to synchronize himself for hits, passes, block shots, and his skating seems to be erratic, meaning there are games that he skates way better than others... I wouldnt be able to say why. And sometimes, you see that his reach allows him to make plays that others just can't ... but sometimes I feel he relies on that instead of improving his positionning and his decision making...

lack of confidence? maybe... but he is extremly lucky that we are having such a great start , cause he has been a liability so far ... big time. He has to improve drastically for me to believe we are cup contenders.

I don't think he is dealt with properly too... if you have a young guy lacking confidence, you have to keep playing him even when he makes mistakes... show him the faith you have in him ... you either let him play through his mistakes, or you send him down (if you can) or you trade him ... but you don't improve a guy's confidence by replacing him with breezer everytime he makes a mistake... so ... whatever ...


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Old
11-03-2008, 01:21 PM
  #109
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About the Markov's GV, don't forget that when he shoot the puck behind the net to try his trademark pass, it counts for a giveaway if the other teams touch it.

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11-03-2008, 01:25 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
I totally agree ... but at 750 k , breezer is a very good assurance policy... the REAL problem is that Obyrne's progression seems to have slowed down, for some reason.... I thought he would end up being just like komi, but he still has a hard time to synchronize himself for hits, passes, block shots, and his skating seems to be erratic, meaning there are games that he skates way better than others... I wouldnt be able to say why. And sometimes, you see that his reach allows him to make plays that others just can't ... but sometimes I feel he relies on that instead of improving his positionning and his decision making...

lack of confidence? maybe... but he is extremly lucky that we are having such a great start , cause he has been a liability so far ... big time. He has to improve drastically for me to believe we are cup contenders.
Expecting O'Byrne to be as good as Komi is a stretch.... Komi is an elite Shutdown defender... drafted in the top 10. O'Byrne is a fourth rounder... if he can become a solid 4-6 defender we should be happy with that. He's getting there, but yeah he is still a liability right now and he needs more time.

Brisebois is fine as an insurance policy #7 guy... but i'd rather see O'b as #6 and Breezy as #7. I know what I'm getting with Breezy... with O'B I hope he will improve with more games. Also due to his bonuses Breezy counts as 1.4 million against the cap.. .not 750K. We can't apply those bonuses to next year, and we don't get them back until they become impossible to reach... If they are based on Games played, that could take a while... and if they are based on points, goals, assists, etc that might not happen till after the last game of the season.

I agree that is a hole we need to fix before the playoffs.... it doesn't need to be done tomorrow though. Let O'B play from now till the deadline... lets see how much he can develop from now until then... over the next 40-50 games.... at that point we can trade for another D.

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Old
11-03-2008, 01:26 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by HulKOMInia View Post
About the Markov's GV, don't forget that when he shoot the puck behind the net to try his trademark pass, it counts for a giveaway if the other teams touch it.
Are you sure? They are pretty good about only giving very, very clear giveaways.

Usually its has to a be at blatant turnover to be counted.

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11-03-2008, 01:26 PM
  #112
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Nothing wrong with Brisebois, as long as he doesn't play 4-5 games in a row. His play tends to drop the more games in a row he plays.
I think Brisebois is at his best when he is limited to 2 out of every 3/4 games.

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11-03-2008, 01:44 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Darz View Post
Nothing wrong with Brisebois, as long as he doesn't play 4-5 games in a row. His play tends to drop the more games in a row he plays.
I think Brisebois is at his best when he is limited to 2 out of every 3/4 games.
I also think he sucks with more than 4 days of rest as well. Which sucks for a #7.. lol..

I seriously think he'll get to his 1,000 games though now after playing so much.

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Old
11-03-2008, 01:46 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Are you sure? They are pretty good about only giving very, very clear giveaways.

Usually its has to a be at blatant turnover to be counted.
I once read it like that, but I'll try to check if it's wrong.

When you dump the puck and that the other team take control of it, I think it also count as a giveaway.

But those stats often change depending on where the game is played (like hits.)

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11-03-2008, 01:47 PM
  #115
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Are you sure? They are pretty good about only giving very, very clear giveaways.

Usually its has to a be at blatant turnover to be counted.
Players who have the puck as much as Markov has, are going to give the puck away. Markov will always have a high number of giveaways because he's always the one hitting his teamates up the ice for a transition pass, that's the nature of his game.

However, Markov does make up for it with a good number of takeaways as well

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11-03-2008, 01:52 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
I don't think he is dealt with properly too... if you have a young guy lacking confidence, you have to keep playing him even when he makes mistakes... show him the faith you have in him ... you either let him play through his mistakes, or you send him down (if you can) or you trade him ... but you don't improve a guy's confidence by replacing him with breezer everytime he makes a mistake... so ... whatever ...
I agree with this. I don't like the way he's been handled either. He needs to know he's going to play every night so he can get comfortable with the NHL game. Now he's playing to NOT make a mistake instead of just playing his game and doing the things that have made him successful at every other level of hockey.

Let's just say that we do stick OB in the line up for 10 games straight. Yes, there will be some ugly mistakes, no doubt. But aren't we a good enough team to overcome them? Even if he does cost us a game, is it really that big a deal? I don't see Buffalo matching us all year long, the division should be ours no problem. We aren't a team scrapping for the 7th and 8th spot anymore. We can live through his growing pains. An OB mistake at worst will cost us the difference between 1st and 2nd in the Conference, not 8th and 9th.

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11-03-2008, 01:53 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Players who have the puck as much as Markov has, are going to give the puck away. Markov will always have a high number of giveaways because he's always the one hitting his teamates up the ice for a transition pass, that's the nature of his game.

However, Markov does make up for it with a good number of takeaways as well
Didn't Joe Thornton lead the league in giveaways last year or the year before? It's not a stat I worry too much about.

As for Brisebois, his defensive miscues have been overexaggerated since the day we first signed him. He still makes bonehead plays, but he hasn't been nearly as bad as some people here would have you think. O'Byrne on the other hand...

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11-03-2008, 01:54 PM
  #118
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Players who have the puck as much as Markov has, are going to give the puck away. Markov will always have a high number of giveaways because he's always the one hitting his teamates up the ice for a transition pass, that's the nature of his game.

However, Markov does make up for it with a good number of takeaways as well
I once heard Jim Hughson say that Gretzky would lead the league in turnovers year in and year out, so that theory stands, if he's correct.

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11-03-2008, 02:19 PM
  #119
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I once heard Jim Hughson say that Gretzky would lead the league in turnovers year in and year out, so that theory stands, if he's correct.
exactly...Markov's almost always looking to dish the puck, pass the puck up the ice, etc. Alot of times, he tries passes that don't have the highest completion % but that's the way he plays

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11-03-2008, 02:19 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Expecting O'Byrne to be as good as Komi is a stretch.... Komi is an elite Shutdown defender... drafted in the top 10. O'Byrne is a fourth rounder... if he can become a solid 4-6 defender we should be happy with that. He's getting there, but yeah he is still a liability right now and he needs more time.
.
again I agree , but for me there is a difference between a top 4 and top 6 dmen , and if he doesnt make it as a good top 4, we need another one eventually, do you agree?

have a look at the top 4 of stanley cup winning teams in the past years, and it'll give us a good idea of the level he needs to be at comes spring ...
...
detroit ; lidstrom , rafalski , kronwall , stuart
ducks: beauchemin , pronger, niedermayer, hannan
carolina : kaberle, ward, Hedican, commodore,
tampa : Boyle, Sarich, kubina, sydor, lukowich
Devils : Stevens, niedermayer, rafalski , white

not saying OB isn't good, but lets be realistic...it won't happen this year ...

there might be mistakes in my list, I relied on memory ...

but just saying, thats beside the fact that all these teams had amazing goaltending... osgood,giguere,ward on fire, khaby, brodeur...

I really think a strong top 4 dmen would give us a realistic shot at the cup this year...

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11-03-2008, 02:28 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by zx81 View Post
Brisebois was on the ice for how many opponents goals in his 8 games ?
The answer is 2.
Both in the same game, against the Ducks.
He still finished even in this game.

So he wasn't on the ice for any opponent goal in his 7 other games.
(Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think so).

So all this Brisebois bashing is extremely exaggerated.

Not saying he has been playing amazingly well but he certainly was better than O'byrne. Yes he created some turnovers but they haven't been costly.

But hey it's so cool to bash Breezer.

Who cares? He's still a horrible player and a liability on the ice whether his stats show it or not.
I'd rather have Youppi on rollerblades, using a rubber stick then have Brisebois on the ice.

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11-03-2008, 02:29 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
again I agree , but for me there is a difference between a top 4 and top 6 dmen , and if he doesnt make it as a good top 4, we need another one eventually, do you agree?

have a look at the top 4 of stanley cup winning teams in the past years, and it'll give us a good idea of the level he needs to be at comes spring ...
...
detroit ; lidstrom , rafalski , kronwall , stuart
ducks: beauchemin , pronger, niedermayer, hannan
carolina : kaberle, ward, Hedican, commodore,
tampa : Boyle, Sarich, kubina, sydor, lukowich
Devils : Stevens, niedermayer, rafalski , white

not saying OB isn't good, but lets be realistic...it won't happen this year ...

there might be mistakes in my list, I relied on memory ...

but just saying, thats beside the fact that all these teams had amazing goaltending... osgood,giguere,ward on fire, khaby, brodeur...

I really think a strong top 4 dmen would give us a realistic shot at the cup this year...
Hannan lol
dont think so

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11-03-2008, 02:30 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
again I agree , but for me there is a difference between a top 4 and top 6 dmen , and if he doesnt make it as a good top 4, we need another one eventually, do you agree?

have a look at the top 4 of stanley cup winning teams in the past years, and it'll give us a good idea of the level he needs to be at comes spring ...
...
detroit ; lidstrom , rafalski , kronwall , stuart
ducks: beauchemin , pronger, niedermayer, hannan
carolina : kaberle, ward, Hedican, commodore,
tampa : Boyle, Sarich, kubina, sydor, lukowich
Devils : Stevens, niedermayer, rafalski , white

not saying OB isn't good, but lets be realistic...it won't happen this year ...

there might be mistakes in my list, I relied on memory ...

but just saying, thats beside the fact that all these teams had amazing goaltending... osgood,giguere,ward on fire, khaby, brodeur...

I really think a strong top 4 dmen would give us a realistic shot at the cup this year...

I'm guessing most of you haven't realized that Josh Gorges is our 4th d-man.
He avgs 18:45 of ice time over an avg of 24.9 shifts, 4th highest on the team.
Guess who the top 3 are...

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11-03-2008, 02:32 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by danyhabsfan View Post
Hannan lol
dont think so
More like...
commodore, kaberle, kubina, stuart, beauchemin

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11-03-2008, 02:32 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
have a look at the top 4 of stanley cup winning teams in the past years, and it'll give us a good idea of the level he needs to be at comes spring ...
...
detroit ; lidstrom , rafalski , kronwall , stuart
ducks: beauchemin , pronger, niedermayer, hannan
carolina : kaberle, ward, Hedican, commodore,
tampa : Boyle, Sarich, kubina, sydor, lukowich
Devils : Stevens, niedermayer, rafalski , white
I don't think Hannan played on the Ducks..

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