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Get rid of Dawes.

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Old
11-04-2008, 06:09 AM
  #76
FLYLine24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
The guy has produced 18 goals and 18 assists in 91 games, most of them on the top two lines. For a guy as one dimensional as Dawes, that's not good. If a sniper isn't producing, what good is he for the team?

I haven't seen in Dawes what I like to see in a top six player in NHL. Because either he will be a top six player, or not play at all. Now, he might become a complete NHL player some day, but I just see another Hossa in him, with worse defense and a little bit better offense. How many seasons will the Dawes project be given? Five? As many as Hossa got before he was traded?

The same basically goes for Prucha (with better defense than offense), but Prucha fits better in a bottom six role than Dawes does, so he still has a role he can fill.

Dawes is hardly a liability on defense. Thats a pretty unfair statement to make to try to prove a point.

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Old
11-04-2008, 06:53 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
Dawes is hardly a liability on defense. Thats a pretty unfair statement to make to try to prove a point.
You don't think? He's not the guy I want in the defensive zone when the other team has some pressure. He often places himself awkwardly positionally and loses his man too often as well. While he has improved from last season - where he was outright bad defensively - it's still not exactly one of his strengths.

Even if you would consider him better than average defensively, he still hasn't shown enough offensive firepower to grant him a top six role on this team. He's not an especially good passer, isn't a strong skater, has average stickhandling, can't beat his man one-on-one and isn't especially good at beating his man to get open. Dawes has a pretty good wristshot. That's his only upside as I see it and that's not enough.


Last edited by Chimp: 11-04-2008 at 07:07 AM.
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Old
11-04-2008, 09:36 AM
  #78
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Agree, he needs to go.

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Old
11-04-2008, 09:46 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
You don't think? He's not the guy I want in the defensive zone when the other team has some pressure. He often places himself awkwardly positionally and loses his man too often as well. While he has improved from last season - where he was outright bad defensively - it's still not exactly one of his strengths.

Even if you would consider him better than average defensively, he still hasn't shown enough offensive firepower to grant him a top six role on this team. He's not an especially good passer, isn't a strong skater, has average stickhandling, can't beat his man one-on-one and isn't especially good at beating his man to get open. Dawes has a pretty good wristshot. That's his only upside as I see it and that's not enough.

Again, he's not a liabilty on defense so hes not a one way player. He knows how to play both ends and I think your either really reaching to prove your point, I rarely every remember saying "Well Dawes cost us that goal for not doing his job".

And its been 10 games, Dawes is great as getting open for a shot, thats how he's scored so many goals his whole career in every league.

Its 10 games...again, people need to relax a bit and remember not everyone is like Staal/Dubinsky in terms of development.

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11-04-2008, 09:50 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
Again, he's not a liabilty on defense so hes not a one way player. He knows how to play both ends and I think your either really reaching to prove your point, I rarely every remember saying "Well Dawes cost us that goal for not doing his job".

And its been 10 games, Dawes is great as getting open for a shot, thats how he's scored so many goals his whole career in every league.

Its 10 games...again, people need to relax a bit and remember not everyone is like Staal/Dubinsky in terms of development.
Exactly. I'm not sure what people are expecting of Dawes but he isn't going to be a goal-per-game player. He's going to score maybe 20 or a little more this year. 10 games certainly doesn't make a season despite popular belief on this board.

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Old
11-04-2008, 09:55 AM
  #81
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Dawes has a lot of the flaws your mentioning. The problem was, your only mentioning them now after he had a successful rookie season last year. Nobody said anything last year. It's just because he's in a slump.

I'm not ready to give up on him. He won't fetch anything worthy of giving up.

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Old
11-04-2008, 09:58 AM
  #82
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Dawes > Prucha

And its not even close.

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Old
11-04-2008, 10:24 AM
  #83
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The Dawes needs to go sentiment is counter-productive. Who are you going to replace him with? Dipping into the Fritsche/Prucha pool isnt exactly an upgrade.

I say sit him for a game or two...maybe that will get the message across that he needs to bring it every single shift of every single night to stick in this league.

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Old
11-04-2008, 10:47 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
Its 10 games...again, people need to relax a bit and remember not everyone is like Staal/Dubinsky in terms of development.
This is the main problem causing threads like this. I can't believe how Rangers fans forget what it really takes to groom a prospect, since we really haven't had one take time in recent history to reach their potential. Staal and Dubinsky are rarities and we've been spoiled that they've experienced such quick development and taken on integral roles within the team.

The bottom line is Dawes has produced at every level, the organization drafted and is now preparing him. Do people really believe that its a good idea to give up on someone who only has 80 NHL games that you've invested so much into? Sorry but I for one am willing to stick with our prospects a little longer, especially considering the teams standings right now.

Everyone wanted the Rangers to begin building from within. This is what it takes.


Last edited by D713B: 11-04-2008 at 11:11 AM.
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11-04-2008, 10:53 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSchwab View Post
Dawes > Prucha

And its not even close.
Give Prucha a shot. He hasn't played with a top center in nearly 2 years.


I guarentee u tonight Prucha scores just to shut the board up

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11-04-2008, 11:21 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSchwab View Post
Dawes > Prucha

And its not even close.
Care to explain that? Certainly seems like Prucha had the better rookie year, and despite Dawes having two points (in 6 more games) this season, Prucha has been far more noticeable during the games he has played. (In a good way)

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Old
11-04-2008, 04:55 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguinetti 34567 View Post
Give Prucha a shot. He hasn't played with a top center in nearly 2 years.


I guarentee u tonight Prucha scores just to shut the board up
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Care to explain that? Certainly seems like Prucha had the better rookie year, and despite Dawes having two points (in 6 more games) this season, Prucha has been far more noticeable during the games he has played. (In a good way)
over

don't take me seriously.

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Old
11-04-2008, 06:11 PM
  #88
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Lets think about this.....

If you're to trade Dawes, what would you get in return? Not really much, he's a small unproven player showing decent offensive potential. Maybe you can get a pick or a prospect maybe even upgrade a pick or two.

Well lets take a history lesson and rewind to the day's of Neil Smith when he was left up to his own devices of regularly trading away youth rather than taking the time to develop it. This is of course the time before Glenn Sather. Sather who took over a team with no home grown talent and no farm system, developed both and has now made a team that regularly makes the playoffs. Lets roll back to 1999. The Rangers had a young player by the name of Marc Savard. He was young, showed some offensive potential, but often got lost in the mix with larger players because of his small size, especially at a young age when still learning the NHL game. Savard had good hands and speed and was a decent scorer in juniors, 43 goals his last year. The Rangers, impatient to develop (maybe incapable), traded him and got a fairly good return too. An opportunity to move up in the draft and grab a guy who was sure to be part of the future of the organization and they even got an European fellow who might come over to the NHL some day. What's now.....Savard is one of the best play making pivots in the game, Jan Hlavac had 1 decent year with the Rangers and is probably best described as a part time NHLer and Jamie Lundmark was part of the bust of the 1999 draft.

When a team has a young talented player, they should develop him, not toss him away. Not all of them work out, some of them will. Throwing them all away before giving them a chance doesn't help you. At 23 in his sophomore year, he hasn't had enough time to show he's incapable. All he's done at this point is show he has some abilities but lack consistency. Not every guy drafted is a Toews or Stamkos who will be immediately an impact player.

If you don't think developing your team from within is formula for success, explain why Glenn Sather who has done that, has been successful, and Neil Smith's tenure is more of a Boom & Bust where there was a single short lived high followed by a long and dreary depression? Want more evidence? Look at Colorado and Detriot. Two teams who've had long term success in recent history. Both were only able to accomplish this through their ability to constant bring players up through their own system. Oh, btw, take a look at the Devils too, they do the same thing. They're like the friggin Borg.

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Old
11-05-2008, 02:37 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Lets think about this.....

If you're to trade Dawes, what would you get in return? Not really much, he's a small unproven player showing decent offensive potential. Maybe you can get a pick or a prospect maybe even upgrade a pick or two.

Well lets take a history lesson and rewind to the day's of Neil Smith when he was left up to his own devices of regularly trading away youth rather than taking the time to develop it. This is of course the time before Glenn Sather. Sather who took over a team with no home grown talent and no farm system, developed both and has now made a team that regularly makes the playoffs. Lets roll back to 1999. The Rangers had a young player by the name of Marc Savard. He was young, showed some offensive potential, but often got lost in the mix with larger players because of his small size, especially at a young age when still learning the NHL game. Savard had good hands and speed and was a decent scorer in juniors, 43 goals his last year. The Rangers, impatient to develop (maybe incapable), traded him and got a fairly good return too. An opportunity to move up in the draft and grab a guy who was sure to be part of the future of the organization and they even got an European fellow who might come over to the NHL some day. What's now.....Savard is one of the best play making pivots in the game, Jan Hlavac had 1 decent year with the Rangers and is probably best described as a part time NHLer and Jamie Lundmark was part of the bust of the 1999 draft.

When a team has a young talented player, they should develop him, not toss him away. Not all of them work out, some of them will. Throwing them all away before giving them a chance doesn't help you. At 23 in his sophomore year, he hasn't had enough time to show he's incapable. All he's done at this point is show he has some abilities but lack consistency. Not every guy drafted is a Toews or Stamkos who will be immediately an impact player.

If you don't think developing your team from within is formula for success, explain why Glenn Sather who has done that, has been successful, and Neil Smith's tenure is more of a Boom & Bust where there was a single short lived high followed by a long and dreary depression? Want more evidence? Look at Colorado and Detriot. Two teams who've had long term success in recent history. Both were only able to accomplish this through their ability to constant bring players up through their own system. Oh, btw, take a look at the Devils too, they do the same thing. They're like the friggin Borg.
No one agrue anything you posted. You cannot blame fans for wanting a DOMINANT performer. We all know that a young player may not be consistent, but he MUST show signs of dominance briefly. Dawes failed to do it in NHL, while he was quite solid in Hartford. Why? One word : TIME. He is slow. That is something Savard never was. Savard was small, but fast. By fast do not mean skating speed, but rather playing speed. The only reason Dawes is playing, thre is no one to replace him. Therefore the calls to rid of him do not make much sense. Plus, he is better then Drury with respect to expectations as well as pay vs. production part.

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Old
11-06-2008, 09:01 AM
  #90
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Dawes doesn't have much to get excited about. Lets see...

1. He's slow
2. He's small
3. He's not overly physical
4. Doesn't have a great shot

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11-06-2008, 09:36 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
Dawes doesn't have much to get excited about. Lets see...

1. He's slow
2. He's small
3. He's not overly physical
4. Doesn't have a great shot

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Old
11-06-2008, 10:36 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
Nigel Dawes has a great shot? Perhaps we differ on our definitions of great.

Brendan Shanahan has a great shot, Kovalchuk has a great shot. Even Zherdev has a great shot compared to Dawes.

Point is, it's not good enough to make up for his other deficiencies. He is not a good NHL player and never will be.

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Old
11-06-2008, 10:44 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
Nigel Dawes has a great shot? Perhaps we differ on our definitions of great.

Brendan Shanahan has a great shot, Kovalchuk has a great shot. Even Zherdev has a great shot compared to Dawes.

Point is, it's not good enough to make up for his other deficiencies. He is not a good NHL player and never will be.
Dawes shot is good, very fast release when he lets it go. I get what ur saying that it's not "great" but it's not bad either. Out of all the parts of his game to pick on his shot shouldn't even be on the list. I do think that if this continues for Nigel it's going to mess his confidence and could land him one of those "conditioning stints" down in Hardford. As far as the title of the thread I would wanna keep him around and see how he pans out.

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Old
11-06-2008, 11:19 PM
  #94
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He has a knack for missing the net when he has good chances. That drives me crazy, get them on net and I have no problem with dawes, keep missing and i wont miss him.

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11-07-2008, 11:59 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Dawes shot is good, very fast release when he lets it go. I get what ur saying that it's not "great" but it's not bad either. Out of all the parts of his game to pick on his shot shouldn't even be on the list. I do think that if this continues for Nigel it's going to mess his confidence and could land him one of those "conditioning stints" down in Hardford. As far as the title of the thread I would wanna keep him around and see how he pans out.
A great shot is useless if you can't put it on net. He has missed the net very often off of several good scoring chances this year.

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Old
11-07-2008, 12:48 PM
  #96
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A great shot is useless if you can't put it on net. He has missed the net very often off of several good scoring chances this year.
it may just be a fact of him trying to be too perfect.....we have seen his shot and it is very good....but i feel like he is pressing a little bit...

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Old
11-07-2008, 01:24 PM
  #97
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I like Dawes, and favor giving chances to guys who haved scored at every level they've ever played (like Dawes), on the theory that after an adjustment period, they'll do it in the NHL, too.

That being said, if he's got options, send him down and let him kick a little a$$ in the AHL again -- maybe he'll stop pressing and regain confidence.

It worked when they sent him down last year.

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11-07-2008, 01:38 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by PoddubnyRules View Post
I like Dawes, and favor giving chances to guys who haved scored at every level they've ever played (like Dawes), on the theory that after an adjustment period, they'll do it in the NHL, too.

That being said, if he's got options, send him down and let him kick a little a$$ in the AHL again -- maybe he'll stop pressing and regain confidence.

It worked when they sent him down last year.
He'd have to go through waivers. Pretty sure someone would pick him up.

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Old
11-07-2008, 03:00 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
He'd have to go through waivers. Pretty sure someone would pick him up.
Not if we get the good old Glen Sather special; the two week conditioning stint with the Pack. Lets him get a handfull of games in down there. Let him get some games in down there for a bit, give Prucha a final last chance while he's down there and see what happens.

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Old
11-07-2008, 04:13 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
Nigel Dawes ...He is not a good NHL player and never will be.
To be so sure of a player at such a young age, you should be a scout.

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