HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

How good was Gretzky in NYR?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-05-2008, 11:05 AM
  #1
Padan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 509
vCash: 500
How good was Gretzky in NYR?

We all know how good Gretzky was in LA and Edmonton, but how good was Gretz in New York? Was he a top-20 player in the league when he played for the Blueshirts? Was he as bad in his last season as the numbers might indicate (worst +/- rating on the team and only 9 goals in 70 games)?

Padan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2008, 01:20 PM
  #2
rvdnsx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 382
vCash: 500
I would say he was Top 20 in the league his first year here in 96-97. However the next two years were something completely different. At that point in his careere he wasn't a Number 1 center unless he had a true sniper on his wing. We all know that Manny Malhotra was the player Vancouver wanted in any deal for Pavel Bure at the time before he was traded to Florida. Gretzky has even said that he probably would have played at least one more year if he had someone like Pavel Bure on his wing to help prolong his career. Bottom line is that Gretzky got fed up with the Rangers inability to get him a scorer to play with which contributed to his retirement although he would never admit it. Nothing against Adam Graves or John MacLean but they were not players that could keep up with Gretzky. Instead, the Rangers suffered through seven years with no playoffs but they did get Martin Rucinsky eventually for Manny Malhotra...score! (sarcasm)

rvdnsx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2008, 01:44 PM
  #3
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,300
vCash: 500
good the first season, not so good the last two seasons. He was too old, too slow and complained too much.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2008, 02:00 PM
  #4
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,492
vCash: 500
There is only one way to describe his time here in NY. He was ALONE.

Like I am 100% he sure could have been dominated if he played on a great team. But we had a very mediocre team that Gretzky couldn't carry...

Ola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2008, 02:01 PM
  #5
nyrcallahan24
nomvegannom
 
nyrcallahan24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,963
vCash: 500
Gretzkey was amazing, is amazing, and will always be amazing

nyrcallahan24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2008, 02:30 PM
  #6
gravytrain6t
Registered User
 
gravytrain6t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,867
vCash: 500
Hey I got a pretty good line for the Rangers when Messier came over. Just curious if you guys think this would be a decent line. Suppose we had Gretz and Jagr back then. Put Gretzky at center, Messier at LW (like he did in Edmonton for a while and Jagr on the right side). Doesn't sound too bad right?

I'll tell you one thing. It almost makes me wanna cry to think I'm never gonna see such greats play again. All of these names I heard mentioned who passed through Broadway at the end of their careers. These guys in their prime were unstoppable. After all this time. It still hasn't hit me yet, the realization that I will never see such a Ranger great like Brian Leetch carrying that puck up ice ever again. Sorry to get off the Gretz topic but look it up on the Rangers Website. I'm almost positive he had two solid seasons here. I know he put up a lot of assists one year (I mean a lot for what us Rangers fans are used to seeing).

gravytrain6t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2008, 02:35 PM
  #7
Glen Teflon Sather
Like A Boss
 
Glen Teflon Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bloomfield, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,872
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Glen Teflon Sather
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
Hey I got a pretty good line for the Rangers when Messier came over. Just curious if you guys think this would be a decent line. Suppose we had Gretz and Jagr back then. Put Gretzky at center, Messier at LW (like he did in Edmonton for a while and Jagr on the right side). Doesn't sound too bad right?

I'll tell you one thing. It almost makes me wanna cry to think I'm never gonna see such greats play again. All of these names I heard mentioned who passed through Broadway at the end of their careers. These guys in their prime were unstoppable. After all this time. It still hasn't hit me yet, the realization that I will never see such a Ranger great like Brian Leetch carrying that puck up ice ever again. Sorry to get off the Gretz topic but look it up on the Rangers Website. I'm almost positive he had two solid seasons here. I know he put up a lot of assists one year (I mean a lot for what us Rangers fans are used to seeing).
I often wish Bure's knees didn't give out in the end, imagine this team with Bure and Jagr?

Glen Teflon Sather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2008, 02:39 PM
  #8
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
 
n8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: san francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 7,400
vCash: 500
Gretkzy Bure would have been magical. Yeah, we loved Malhotra back then but for Bure in his prime, I think that was really silly of us not to make that trade. Especially since Gretzky was on board. Would you package Dubinsky for Ovechkin? Granted, unlike Malhotra, Dubinksy has already demonstrated his ability instead of just being loved on potential alone. Crazy when you think back on it.

n8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2008, 02:44 PM
  #9
Shake and Bake
 
Shake and Bake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,367
vCash: 500
they were offered bure for malhotra and others?? what was the exact proposal, if u remember?

Shake and Bake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2008, 03:16 PM
  #10
drewcon40
Registered User
 
drewcon40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: born LI, live SI
Posts: 843
vCash: 500
I really enjoy these nostalgic threads because someone always has a piece of information that I never knew of.

Gretz's first year with Messier was amazing. He had 97 points which I think was 4th best in the league. His playoff run was good. He had the Florida hatrick and a good game, game 2 of the Flyers series. (20 pts in 15GP). The Flyers pretty much dominated that series but the Rangers had some significant injuries (Sundstrom and Bill Berg???)

The following summer Messier left and the Sakic offer sheet plan failed. 97-98 was a very interesting year because we weren't sure how a Messier-less Rangers team would do. What I find interesting is that many on the board cite Gretz's lcak of a scoring winger as the issue, which was true. I always thought the 2nd line centerman was the problem. LaFontaine had a decent year until Mike Keane's collision. Alexi Kovalev should have been the scoring winger. They also traded Robitaille for Stevens that off season. Unlucky Luc should have been on the team. Gretz still put up 90 points.

We also had Marc Savard on that team!!!

98-99 was his last year and I thought they'd squeak into the final playoff spot. They traded Kovalev for Nedved that November. I do remember the rumors of Manny Malhotra, Dan Cloutier, and Niklas Sundstrom for Pavel Bure. After seeing what the 3 eventually netted us, I'd absolutely do that deal at the time.

I also recall that Neil Smith's genius acquisition was Scott Fraser because of his shooting percentage, was going to be a hidden gem for Gretzky. I forgot Graves had 38 that year!!!!

drewcon40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2008, 03:21 PM
  #11
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,638
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake and Bake View Post
they were offered bure for malhotra and others?? what was the exact proposal, if u remember?
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/...g_for_bur.html

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2008, 03:37 PM
  #12
McRanger
Registered User
 
McRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,705
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
good the first season, not so good the last two seasons. He was too old, too slow and complained too much.
Not so good the last season, but his 2nd season he led the league in assists and was 3rd in points, playing with pretty much no one that resembled a finisher. Hell even his last season he was almost a point per game and top 10 in assists.

Its a disgrace he had to finish his career with that team.

McRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2008, 03:40 PM
  #13
Shake and Bake
 
Shake and Bake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Thanks Bluenote...

Shake and Bake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2008, 03:51 PM
  #14
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,638
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake and Bake View Post
Thanks Bluenote...
I was against trading 4 valuable assets for Bure. Its easy to say now that it probably wouldve been worth it, then again trading those 4 assets couldve gotten us some really nice players other than Bure. Smith had the right idea when he made the huge splash in the '99 draft, we just ended up with two busts in Brendl & Lundmark. That day we were being hailed in the hockey world as winning that draft. In hindsight, Neil shouldve tried to trade up to get the Sedins. Wow, can't believe thats gonna be 10 years next June.

In 1999 our defense was really mediocre, got really bad when Beuk was cheapshotted and never played again.

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2008, 04:29 PM
  #15
Diehardfan419
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Branchburg, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 446
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padan View Post
We all know how good Gretzky was in LA and Edmonton, but how good was Gretz in New York? Was he a top-20 player in the league when he played for the Blueshirts? Was he as bad in his last season as the numbers might indicate (worst +/- rating on the team and only 9 goals in 70 games)?
Wow, I feel real old all of a sudden and im 35, so i dont think i am. That time seems like it was yesterday.

Diehardfan419 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2008, 06:12 PM
  #16
nyrmetros
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,344
vCash: 500
Gretzky was ALONE in '98 and '99. He needed a sniper for his incredible passes and the Rangers didn't get him one. Going to games in '98 and '99 was all about seeing Leetch, Richter, and Gretzky play. Nothing else.

nyrmetros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-06-2008, 04:06 PM
  #17
Blueshirt Brawler
Registered User
 
Blueshirt Brawler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Yonkers, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 607
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
There is only one way to describe his time here in NY. He was ALONE
No question about it. I was never a big Gretzky fan but Neil Smith signed him and then gave him NOTHING to work with. Gretz probably would have played a couple more years if he saw an opportunity to win another Cup here but that wasn't happening, not with the roster Neil Smith put together and then got fired for.

Blueshirt Brawler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-06-2008, 04:26 PM
  #18
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,300
vCash: 500
The Rangers actually had four 20 goal scorers on their team in TGO's last season. I thought TGO was supposed to make everyone better...make no mistake about his -23 - it was all about him not backchecking and complaining to the refs every time someone farted in his general direction. Further, I think if Savard was given the chance and kept MacLean and Graves on his wing, and got the PP time, he would've had more points than TGO that season. I just hated that season and couldn't stand to watch TGO not be able to keep up in a different game with bigger and faster people.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2008, 02:14 PM
  #19
CharlestownChiefsESC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Laurence Harbor NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 151
vCash: 500
He was great his first season because he got what he asked for. When he came here he said he didnt want the spotlight and wanted a lesser role, and thats excactly what he got because Messier,Leetch,Graves, and Richter were still the go to guys. He played so great his first year because he had less responsibility, Messier was the captian and if something went wrong the media would automatically go to # 11 first. As a result he had a stellar regular season and playoffs, while Messier slumped in the playoffs, and as a result management believed that Messiers services were no longer needed, and that they could replace him with a younger player a.la Joe Sakic, but when the Sakic plan backfired, Messier was already gone and it left Gretzky in the situation that he didnt want to be in, because he now had to be the go to guy. In addition to expieriencing the same shellshock that occured in Edmonton when Gretzky was traded to LA Leetch Graves and Richter were not at the same level as Messier or Gretzky. So even though Leetch was given the C Gretzky was leading the team on the ice. And in his final year when he desperatley needed a scoring winger because the Kovalev, Tikkanen expiriment failed management wouldnt make a deal. Even though he had a solid year his second year (90 pts), he just didnt play with that same fire that he had in his 1st year, all because the team went back on its word, and did nothing to fix it, and because of that it led to the darkest period of Rangers hockey.

CharlestownChiefsESC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2008, 02:28 PM
  #20
nyrmetros
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlestownChiefsESC View Post
and because of that it led to the darkest period of Rangers hockey.
The darkest period in Rangers hockey occured from 1941 until Andy Bathgate showed up in the 1950's....

nyrmetros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2008, 09:13 PM
  #21
bobbop
Henrik's Pop
 
bobbop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Suburban Phoenix
Country: United States
Posts: 4,822
vCash: 500
When Gretzky got to New York, I was genuinely surprised at what a high level he was still playing at. In the 1996-97 playoffs he was the best player in the league. Very, very good the following year too, but in his last year, injuries and his lack of a supporting cast seemed to catch up with him. There were whispers (hard to fathom) that the Rangers were a better team without him. Watching him play every night 1996-98 made me marvel at how good he must have been 10 years earlier.

bobbop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2008, 11:05 PM
  #22
JamesG1221
 
JamesG1221's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 348
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvdnsx View Post
I would say he was Top 20 in the league his first year here in 96-97. However the next two years were something completely different. At that point in his careere he wasn't a Number 1 center unless he had a true sniper on his wing. We all know that Manny Malhotra was the player Vancouver wanted in any deal for Pavel Bure at the time before he was traded to Florida. Gretzky has even said that he probably would have played at least one more year if he had someone like Pavel Bure on his wing to help prolong his career. Bottom line is that Gretzky got fed up with the Rangers inability to get him a scorer to play with which contributed to his retirement although he would never admit it. Nothing against Adam Graves or John MacLean but they were not players that could keep up with Gretzky. Instead, the Rangers suffered through seven years with no playoffs but they did get Martin Rucinsky eventually for Manny Malhotra...score! (sarcasm)




Very well said. Tho his second year he was still at a very high level and tops in the league in scoring but just didn't have much to work with. That team he was on the first year in which he basically spent the year centering Robitaille and Kovalev/Sundstrom was much better then the ones they gave Wayne to work with over the next two years when Maclean, Kevin Stevens and Todd Harvey were our "top wingers" along with Gravey. I think had they pulled off some kind of move for a top winger instead of bringing in Lafontaine that offseason they would have atleast been respectable instead of starting down the ugly path they did..

JamesG1221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-09-2008, 10:30 PM
  #23
tazzy19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,636
vCash: 500
I am shocked what short memories some Rangers fans have! Gretzky was only good for his first year with NY??? In his 2nd season, he led the entire league in scoring (yes, even beating Jagr) from the Christmas break on. Again, I repeat: Not one player beat Gretzky in points from December until the end of the season. If that isn't pretty special (not to mention for a 37 year old), I'm not sure what is. He in fact was 2nd overall in NHL scoring with one week left in the season! He finished 3rd in the NHL playing with nobody. As a 37 year old, that is nothing short of stunning.

Two GREAT seasons in NY, and in his last season, he tied for the NHL lead in assists if I remember.

tazzy19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 09:28 AM
  #24
BrianLeetch2
Registered User
 
BrianLeetch2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Toms River NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 690
vCash: 803
Send a message via AIM to BrianLeetch2 Send a message via MSN to BrianLeetch2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
I was against trading 4 valuable assets for Bure. Its easy to say now that it probably wouldve been worth it, then again trading those 4 assets couldve gotten us some really nice players other than Bure. Smith had the right idea when he made the huge splash in the '99 draft, we just ended up with two busts in Brendl & Lundmark. That day we were being hailed in the hockey world as winning that draft. In hindsight, Neil shouldve tried to trade up to get the Sedins. Wow, can't believe thats gonna be 10 years next June.

In 1999 our defense was really mediocre, got really bad when Beuk was cheapshotted and never played again.
true that deal would have been like dealing for kovalchuk and giving up Dubi, Montoya(if we still had him), dawes and a 1st rounder....tough deal to swallow

BrianLeetch2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:30 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.