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Old
11-05-2008, 03:57 PM
  #26
mcphee
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
When you say "everyone" did you mean besides me?
You guys are mean bastidges. I didn't laugh, not at all.

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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Difference is those players were all elite prospects and damn good NHLers. Still have yet to see what Desharnais can do.
still, it's a nice story. Size doesn't necessarily preclude him from making it. I like what I've seen of the kid, he's at least shown that he can make a good living playing hockey, and that's something right there. Whether he can play at the next level, no idea, but you have to cheeer for the kid.


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11-05-2008, 04:00 PM
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You guys are mean bastidges. I didn't laugh, not at all.
I made fun of you, mocked you, on the THN website. Posted behind your back, ran away from the keyboard all giggly like a little school girl.

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11-05-2008, 04:03 PM
  #28
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I made fun of you, mocked you, on the THN website. Posted behind your back, ran away from the keyboard all giggly like a little school girl.
Man, I'm pathetic, I'm sitting here hiding from my family because there's work to do laughing like an idiot because I'm being mocked somewhere that I would never have read but now I might.

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11-05-2008, 04:03 PM
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still, it's a nice story. Size doesn't necessarily preclude him from making it. I like what I've seen of the kid, he's at least shown that he can make a good living playing hockey, and that's something right there. Whether he can play at the next level, no idea, but you have to cheeer for the kid.
Oh for sure, it's a nice story. I was just pointing out that because those other small players made the NHL does not mean automatically he has a better shot since there is a difference in quality between all of them and him. Either way, good for him.

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11-05-2008, 04:09 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Oh for sure, it's a nice story. I was just pointing out that because those other small players made the NHL does not mean automatically he has a better shot since there is a difference in quality between all of them and him. Either way, good for him.
Yeah, the Fleury's and St.Louis's have a special talent I guess that allows them to play at that level, I have no idea whether this guy is anything more than a very good minor leaguer. He seems to have strong stride with the puck, which was what Corey Locke just never had,imo.

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11-05-2008, 04:14 PM
  #31
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Thats great for the kid, now can we please not overhype him so that people start hating him(I'm not implying that we are, just stating something). He looks like he has a lot of talent, lets let him develop.

Dany Dube already is going crazy about this kid, he said he should be centering the 4th line on the habs between Lappiere and that it's not fair that he's playing on the third line in hamilton while Maxwell is playing on the second and bla bla bla.

I hope he has a great year, habs are looking pretty good at center with Maxwell and Desharnais.

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11-05-2008, 04:22 PM
  #32
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I don't know about this Desharnais guy. However, I am wondering why Gainey signs a player to a 2 way contract at this moment.
My logic goes like this. Since he is playing for Bulldogs, he must be under contract with the Bulldogs.. at least for this year. So if Habs like him, they can sign him when his contract is finished after this year. A 2 way deal, meaning the Habs want him to be in NHL sometime THIS season? I think guys like Chipper should be ahead of him in terms of depth chart. I think there is more to come with it. Maybe Gainey is going to make some kind of minor deal for another defenceman that involve one of our forwards?
For me, this signing does not make sense (not saying Desharnais is bad), my question is, why now?

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11-05-2008, 04:23 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
I don't know about this Desharnais guy. However, I am wondering why Gainey signs a player to a 2 way contract at this moment.
My logic goes like this. Since he is playing for Bulldogs, he must be under contract with the Bulldogs.. at least for this year. So if Habs like him, they can sign him when his contract is finished after this year. A 2 way deal, meaning the Habs want him to be in NHL sometime THIS season? I think guys like Chipper should be ahead of him in terms of depth chart. I think there is more to come with it. Maybe Gainey is going to make some kind of minor deal for another defenceman that involve one of our forwards?
For me, this signing does not make sense (not saying Desharnais is bad), my question is, why now?
If I'm not mistaken, didn't we sign him to make sure no one else does? Did he have like a 25 game try out or something?

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11-05-2008, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Difference is those players were all elite prospects and damn good NHLers. Still have yet to see what Desharnais can do.
Were St-Louis or Fleury elite prospects?

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11-05-2008, 04:29 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
I don't know about this Desharnais guy. However, I am wondering why Gainey signs a player to a 2 way contract at this moment.
My logic goes like this. Since he is playing for Bulldogs, he must be under contract with the Bulldogs.. at least for this year. So if Habs like him, they can sign him when his contract is finished after this year. A 2 way deal, meaning the Habs want him to be in NHL sometime THIS season? I think guys like Chipper should be ahead of him in terms of depth chart. I think there is more to come with it. Maybe Gainey is going to make some kind of minor deal for another defenceman that involve one of our forwards?
For me, this signing does not make sense (not saying Desharnais is bad), my question is, why now?
I would imagine another NHL team was showing interest in David. He was a UFA so he was free to go where he wanted with regards to an NHL contract.

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11-05-2008, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Were St-Louis or Fleury elite prospects?
You could see that they were elite on their teams, elite NCAA and jr. players, but I guess both had the same tag as Desharnais, high scoring little guy who won't be able to play at the next level.

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11-05-2008, 04:31 PM
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Everyone knows he's one of my favourite prospects so I'm thrilled.
Well you're not that important, at least i didn't know he was one of your favorite.

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11-05-2008, 04:32 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
I don't know about this Desharnais guy. However, I am wondering why Gainey signs a player to a 2 way contract at this moment.
My logic goes like this. Since he is playing for Bulldogs, he must be under contract with the Bulldogs.. at least for this year. So if Habs like him, they can sign him when his contract is finished after this year. A 2 way deal, meaning the Habs want him to be in NHL sometime THIS season? I think guys like Chipper should be ahead of him in terms of depth chart. I think there is more to come with it. Maybe Gainey is going to make some kind of minor deal for another defenceman that involve one of our forwards?
For me, this signing does not make sense (not saying Desharnais is bad), my question is, why now?
Having a contract with the Bulldogs doesn't mean he's automatically property of the Habs. His NHL status is/was UFA. Any team could have swooped in and signed in. The reason he was signed now was probably because he doing pretty well in the AHL and generating interest from other NHL clubs. To keep other teams from stealing him, we signed him. Now he's officially a Habs prospect, no other team can sign him anymore.

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11-05-2008, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Were St-Louis or Fleury elite prospects?
Yes. Fleury was drafted late because of his size, but had 61 goals and 68 assists (42 more points than the 2nd leading scorer on the team) in 66 games in the WHL, which is amazing. St. Louis, though undrafted, had great stats (along with Eric Perrin) at Vermont (once had 85 points in 35 games).

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11-05-2008, 04:37 PM
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Well you're not that important, at least i didn't know he was one of your favorite.
than you don't really exist . Your a product of your imagination

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11-05-2008, 04:38 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
I don't know about this Desharnais guy. However, I am wondering why Gainey signs a player to a 2 way contract at this moment.
My logic goes like this. Since he is playing for Bulldogs, he must be under contract with the Bulldogs.. at least for this year. So if Habs like him, they can sign him when his contract is finished after this year. A 2 way deal, meaning the Habs want him to be in NHL sometime THIS season? I think guys like Chipper should be ahead of him in terms of depth chart. I think there is more to come with it. Maybe Gainey is going to make some kind of minor deal for another defenceman that involve one of our forwards?
For me, this signing does not make sense (not saying Desharnais is bad), my question is, why now?
Because any other NHL team can sign him.

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11-05-2008, 04:40 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Yes. Fleury was drafted late because of his size, but had 61 goals and 68 assists (42 more points than the 2nd leading scorer on the team) in 66 games in the WHL, which is amazing. St. Louis, though undrafted, had great stats (along with Eric Perrin) at Vermont (once had 85 points in 35 games).
That doesn't make them elite prospects. Being an elite prospect is highly touted, which neither of these two players were.

Many junior players put up impressive statistics and never go beyond that, as you know. The simple fact that they put up great stats doesn't make 'em great prospects.

By that measurement, Desharnais, too, is a great prospect for putting up 100+ points in 60 games in the AHL, a good 30-40 points ahead of his teammates.

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11-05-2008, 04:43 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Because any other NHL team can sign him.
OK. In that case it makes perfect sense. I though if a player is signed to AHL deal, then the NHL club holds his right, but the player has to sign a NHL or 2 way deal in order to play in NHL.
So basically if a player is signed with AHL contract only, another NHL team can sign him. haha.. I imagine if someone playing for Bulldog on Monday, then on Tuesday he suits up for another NHL team (let's say the Leafs), it's kinda weird...

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11-05-2008, 04:45 PM
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That doesn't make them elite prospects. Being an elite prospect is highly touted, which neither of these two players were.

Many junior players put up impressive statistics and never go beyond that, as you know. The simple fact that they put up great stats doesn't make 'em great prospects.

By that measurement, Desharnais, too, is a great prospect for putting up 100+ points in 60 games in the AHL, a good 30-40 points ahead of his teammates.
Ok it makes them elite Junior players. Point is they were better Junior players than Desharnais who did have great Junior stats but was only first on his team once, when he was 20-21 years old.

And Desharnais did that in the ECHL, big difference. But still impressive.

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11-05-2008, 04:46 PM
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OK. In that case it makes perfect sense. I though if a player is signed to AHL deal, then the NHL club holds his right, but the player has to sign a NHL or 2 way deal in order to play in NHL.
So basically if a player is signed with AHL contract only, another NHL team can sign him. haha.. I imagine if someone playing for Bulldog on Monday, then on Tuesday he suits up for another NHL team (let's say the Leafs), it's kinda weird...
Yup, but think of it this way: Hamilton is not Montreal property. It is not owned by Montreal. Montreal has a contract by which the team will loan its players to Hamilton and control some of the hockey operations. Hamilton itself is still allowed to make signings, though the hockey operations tend to go through Canadiens people (J.Brisebois is the GM down there..)

So, let's say Toronto had too many players for their AHL affiliate to handle. They could, theoretically, shop their excess players out to loan to other AHL squads.

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11-05-2008, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Yes. Fleury was drafted late because of his size, but had 61 goals and 68 assists (42 more points than the 2nd leading scorer on the team) in 66 games in the WHL, which is amazing. St. Louis, though undrafted, had great stats (along with Eric Perrin) at Vermont (once had 85 points in 35 games).
Well then we might consider Desharnais as a elite rookie too:

his years in the Q:
2003-2004 GP70 23G 28A 51pts
2004-2005 GP68 32G 64A 97PTS
2005-2006 GP63 33G 85A 118pts
2006-2007 GP61 38G 70A 108pts

His year in the ECHL

2007-2008 GP68 29G 77A 106PTS

He's not tearing up the AHL but he's not playing with elite teamates and he did well till now. At first i thought he will never make the NHL but after last year in Cinti i changed my mind, he can make it, then again i dont know if he will do it, especialy with the CH.

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11-05-2008, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Difference is those players were all elite prospects and damn good NHLers. Still have yet to see what Desharnais can do.
Noone said he was a surefire NHLer.... i was just refuting the point that

no size = no NHL for him, no matter what

He was in the ECHL last year... though he was the ECHL leading scorer/MVP....
now hes over a PPG in hamilton.... if he can keep this pace through the long grind of the AHL season, he definetely deserves an NHL look.

Who knows... we signed him as an undrafted free agent.... if he busts out we've lost nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
I don't know about this Desharnais guy. However, I am wondering why Gainey signs a player to a 2 way contract at this moment.
My logic goes like this. Since he is playing for Bulldogs, he must be under contract with the Bulldogs.. at least for this year. So if Habs like him, they can sign him when his contract is finished after this year. A 2 way deal, meaning the Habs want him to be in NHL sometime THIS season? I think guys like Chipper should be ahead of him in terms of depth chart. I think there is more to come with it. Maybe Gainey is going to make some kind of minor deal for another defenceman that involve one of our forwards?
For me, this signing does not make sense (not saying Desharnais is bad), my question is, why now?
If you have an AHL only contract it is signed with Hamilton, not Montreal. By rule any NHL team can purchase your contract from Hamilton and bring him to the NHL. If you have a two way contract then you are a Montreal player who is loaned to the Bulldogs.... you are under contract to the NHL club and no other NHL club can come and purchase your contract.


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11-05-2008, 04:51 PM
  #48
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good news . I was really impressed by his performances during the pre-season games . Very good vision .

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11-05-2008, 04:54 PM
  #49
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Ok it makes them elite Junior players. Point is they were better Junior players than Desharnais who did have great Junior stats but was only first on his team once, when he was 20-21 years old.

And Desharnais did that in the ECHL, big difference. But still impressive.
St-Louis did it at University of Vermont, which is pretty miserable quality.

Desharnais put up better stats & performance than Zagrapan, a first rounder ... point is: elite junior stats mean zilch. Fleury and St-Louis were not elite prospects at any time, really, until they made it.

I'm with you in that I'm skeptical on Desharnais, but there's precedence in these two players for young players to become world-beaters out of nowhere.

I haven't seen enough of Desharnais to know, but Fleury compensated for his size with amazingly dirty play in addition to his talent. He was fearsome to skate next to, nevermind check. I went to a game once in Boston ... Fleury was there, and he was a circus by himself. It was similar to watching Ben Eager in junior (and he's tamed a lot): essentially, a realistic view of Slapshot. Fleury would slash everyone on every play, bark at the bench, get penalties and yap at the ref the entire time he was in the box, come out of the box and slewfoot someone way behind the play where the ref (only one at the time) wouldn't see.

Fleury's idea of playing it high and floating at center ice wasn't to get a quick break so much as being out of the referee's line of vision so he could pull off more antics.

St-Louis is a beast in the gym. His legs are monstrous.

Two different approaches with similar results making these two players elite. Desharnais doesn't seem to be a fearful perimeter guy, but he needs to be more than just unafraid.

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11-05-2008, 05:01 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
St-Louis did it at University of Vermont, which is pretty miserable quality.

Desharnais put up better stats & performance than Zagrapan, a first rounder ... point is: elite junior stats mean zilch. Fleury and St-Louis were not elite prospects at any time, really, until they made it.

I'm with you in that I'm skeptical on Desharnais, but there's precedence in these two players for young players to become world-beaters out of nowhere.

I haven't seen enough of Desharnais to know, but Fleury compensated for his size with amazingly dirty play in addition to his talent. He was fearsome to skate next to, nevermind check. I went to a game once in Boston ... Fleury was there, and he was a circus by himself. It was similar to watching Ben Eager in junior (and he's tamed a lot): essentially, a realistic view of Slapshot. Fleury would slash everyone on every play, bark at the bench, get penalties and yap at the ref the entire time he was in the box, come out of the box and slewfoot someone way behind the play where the ref (only one at the time) wouldn't see.

Fleury's idea of playing it high and floating at center ice wasn't to get a quick break so much as being out of the referee's line of vision so he could pull off more antics.

St-Louis is a beast in the gym. His legs are monstrous.

Two different approaches with similar results making these two players elite. Desharnais doesn't seem to be a fearful perimeter guy, but he needs to be more than just unafraid.
Great post!

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