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New Jersey Devils / Montreal Canadiens

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Old
11-05-2008, 09:57 PM
  #26
Classic Devil
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Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
How good is Oduya? Cause unless hes a legitimate top-4 defenseman I don't like this for Montreal.
Oduya is definitely legit top-4 to the point that the Devils can't afford to trade him with our current injuries on the blueline.

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11-05-2008, 09:58 PM
  #27
Harrison Ford
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Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
Oh, please. Fine. Watch us.

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Old
11-05-2008, 09:59 PM
  #28
Jason MacIsaac
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Brodeur
Rolston
Holik
Martin
Greene
Pierre Luc Leblond

We are pretty much a mess right now.

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Old
11-06-2008, 12:43 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Coach Parker View Post
No he isn't. Johnny is going to be their best defenseman this year, and would be Montreal's 3rd best defenseman and 2nd in scoring behind Markov on the blueline.
He'd be 4th.... Markov, Hamrlik, Komisarek are all better than Oduya.
Probably 2nd in scoring, 3rd for sure... but 4th in value.

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Old
11-06-2008, 07:04 AM
  #30
Blind Gardien
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Originally Posted by Rasmanian Devil View Post
Is O'Byrne NHL ready?
He's NHL ready, but he's also inexperienced and you have to expect some growing pains with most any young defenseman. Ideally, you have him nicely insulated playing 15 minutes or less a night, that sort of thing, while he learns. Which actually isn't a problem... not even in Montreal, where he can be nicely insulated playing with Hamrlik, given that low icetime and responsibility, and occasionally shuffled to the pressbox for perspective.

The only reason he gets mentioned is that Habs fans need to find _something_ to target for improving the team further this season, and perhaps carrying a rookie D is a luxury that could be improved upon. Otherwise, he's huge, he moves well for his size, he has solid upside, and the Habs would be dumb to trade him.

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Old
11-06-2008, 08:55 AM
  #31
Squeaky
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O'Byrnes got 41 NHL games in; yes he's NHL ready.

For people saying Halak is worth more than Oduya: you're wrong. Worth more to the Habs? Sure, but not on the open market. I doubt he holds much value at all around the league, which is just another reason why the Habs shouldn't and won't be trading him any time soon.

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11-06-2008, 08:58 AM
  #32
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Why would the Habs trade their backup goalie in a year where they are contenders? What if Price gets hurt, then the Habs are in the same spot the Devils are. I'd be shocked if Gainey dealt Halak during the season unless he was offered a deal he couldn't refuse.

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Old
11-06-2008, 10:12 AM
  #33
Habitant le colon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
O'Byrnes got 41 NHL games in; yes he's NHL ready.

For people saying Halak is worth more than Oduya: you're wrong. Worth more to the Habs? Sure, but not on the open market. I doubt he holds much value at all around the league, which is just another reason why the Habs shouldn't and won't be trading him any time soon.
yo got stat to prove your opinion ?

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Old
11-06-2008, 10:35 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Habitant le colon View Post
yo got stat to prove your opinion ?
Sorry to interject, but to answer your question to Squeaky, goalies in the cap-restricted NHL and even before have been notoriously traded for what most here would deem to be less than their value on the market whereas quality defencemen have generally been traded for more than their deemed value over the same period.

This probably has to do with the fact that there are fewer available positions for a quality goaltender to play in the NHL thereby making the supply greater than their demand. It probably also has something to do with the idea that goalies take a long time to develop and goalie prospects are a fairly risky proposition because skill does not necessarily equal success at the position.

Likewise, defencemen take time to develop into quality stars and so star defencemen are worth much more than the risk of lower end defencemen and risky prospects. Unlike goalies, however, is that there are significantly more positions available for defencemen (6 to 1 versus starting goalies, 3 to 1 versus total goalies) than that for goalies. Therefore the supply is much lower versus the demand.

Generally, a team would love to have 4 to 6 quality star defencemen whereas if they have one star goalie, they can live with a decent backup/prospect.

Please note: I'm not saying that Oduya is worth more than Halak or vice versa. I was just trying to give an argument as to why a goalie (Halak) may be undervalued whereas a defenceman (Oduya) may be overvalued in the trade market.

Edit: I know I didn't prove it statistically, but I'm sure if we put up trade involving star goalies versus star defencemen over the last couple of seasons, we'd surely see that trend.

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Old
11-06-2008, 10:45 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Habitant le colon View Post
yo got stat to prove your opinion ?
You got a stat to disprove it?

I'm basing my opinion on what other goaltenders have netted in trade in recent years. Huet got a 2nd. Bryzgalov got nothing and went on waivers. Montoya returned fairly little. When goaltenders who have proven significantly more than Halak are getting next to nothing in return, I find it hard to believe Halak will net anything of value.

The one exception I can think of is Mike Smith, who combined with some scrubs to land Richards. I don't think that trade has much comparison value here though, since Richards was essentially a salary dump and Oduya certainly is not.

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Old
11-06-2008, 10:59 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by TML4ever View Post
No, they do not. Kevin Weekes is not a good, or consistent goaltender. I don't care how good or deep your forward core is, with an average defence and a below average goalie you are not getting into the playoffs.
Easy there. U dont know if the NJD will make it or not. For all u know they may and they still have the means to do so. Dont talk like u know the ****ing future!!!!

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Old
11-06-2008, 11:43 AM
  #37
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Im surprised Oduya is so underated, I mean good for Devils

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Old
11-06-2008, 12:42 PM
  #38
Habitant le colon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
You got a stat to disprove it?

I'm basing my opinion on what other goaltenders have netted in trade in recent years. Huet got a 2nd. Bryzgalov got nothing and went on waivers. Montoya returned fairly little. When goaltenders who have proven significantly more than Halak are getting next to nothing in return, I find it hard to believe Halak will net anything of value.

The one exception I can think of is Mike Smith, who combined with some scrubs to land Richards. I don't think that trade has much comparison value here though, since Richards was essentially a salary dump and Oduya certainly is not.

Oduya :last year 75 match (NJD) +27 this year 12 match (NJD) +7[+27?? wow: my comment!]
VS
O'byrne last year:33 match (mtl) +7 this year 8 match (mtl) +/-0

____-_--___________-_--_____________________-_--___________________

Halak: last year 28 match 0.929(hamilton) et 6 match 0.934(mtl)(pourcentage efficacité) this year 3 match 0.918
VS
Frazee team america 2007 : 2007 en 5 match 0.939

oki i add a pick from MTL !!

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Old
11-06-2008, 02:35 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
i have no confidence in Denis as Price's backup.... and well this might be fair value wise for what goalies are worth on the trade market i'd rather keep Halak. The whole thing that spurred this thread is a freak injury to Brodeur.... well what if the same thing happens to price in the playoffs. I'm not ready to throw that away for Oduya.

Also i still think patience is needed with O'Byrne.... he needs experience to see if he can improve his play. I think he'll get better with games. We can wait to address this hole. let him play 50 more games and at the trade deadline if we still need another defenceman trade for one then. Experienced UFAs to be will be available... and we have a stacked farm club that can afford to lose one or two prospects to get them.... as long as we aren't talking about McDonagh and Pacioretty I'm okay with moving a couple of them. Which one and is it one or two depends on the deal. I might even be willing to include O'Byrne at that time...
Really, really good post. I think that is the best stance for Gainey to take. I disagree a little on Denis(think he is good enough to be NHL backup, we're not going anywhere with Halak either if Price is gone). Other than that I say stay status quo until near deadline then look at improvements

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Old
11-06-2008, 03:28 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
Oh, please. Fine. Watch us.
We will... but NO WAY do we do that trade

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Old
11-06-2008, 03:47 PM
  #41
Classic Devil
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Originally Posted by LoveRadu View Post
We will... but NO WAY do we do that trade
That's fine, I'm not a fan of it either.

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Old
11-06-2008, 05:23 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Habitant le colon View Post
Well since we all know tha Martin Brodeur will be out for long I'll propose a cure to this Devils cancer !!
This is the logic behind 31 of the next 50 proposals on HF Boards, I would almost put vCash on it.

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