You think the Habs are going to get another four years outta him.....Come on.... be realistic....
No i think its 2-3 tops...
The point of the last two years on the contract is to lower the CAP HIT of the first three years.... when he retires he has 0 cap hit for those years cause he was under 35 on July 1st 2009 when the contract came into effect.
Why do you guys keep seeing a 5 year contract and don't understand this point that we have made 20x in the thread.
So you sign him for
6-4-3-2-2 and the cap hit is 3.4million
you sign him for 6-4 and the cap hit is 5 million.
You are compared Koivu to Drury or Briere to say his value is 5 m$ , but those player are just themselves overpaid . Why Gainey would do the same with Koivu ?
You are compared Koivu to Drury or Briere to say his value is 5 m$ , but those player are just themselves overpaid . Why Gainey would do the same with Koivu ?
Koivu at 5 m$ is ridiculous . If he wants to end his career with the Habs , he needs to take a salary cut .
Selanne ; 2,625 M$ - 38 Years old BrinD'Amour ; 3,6 m$ - 37 Years old ALFREDSON 4,34 M$ - After this season when he's 35/36 his new 4 year/5.4 cap hit contract kicks in
You are compared Koivu to Drury or Briere to say his value is 5 m$ , but those player are just themselves overpaid . Why Gainey would do the same with Koivu ?
Koivu at 5 m$ is ridiculous . If he wants to end his career with the Habs , he needs to take a salary cut .
Sedins - are not UFAs....
Morrisson - two straight years of complete and utter crap...
Mikko - not eligible for UFA
Naslund - two straight years of crap
Alfreddson - old contract; his new deal is a cap hit of over 5 million and that is low cause he is structured in a similar way to what we want to do with koivu.
Savard - his deal was signed three years ago... inflation; if he was UFA now he'd get way more
Demitra - seriously injury prone...
Selanne ; 2,625 M$ - 38 Years old BrinD'Amour ; 3,6 m$ - 37 Years old ALFREDSON 4,34 M$ - After this season when he's 35/36 his new 4 year/5.4 cap hit contract kicks in
Selanne ; 9 goals in 13 games . who care he's 38 ?
BrinD'Amour ; better than Koivu and still one of the best two way players of the NHL . Who care that he's 37 ?
Alfredson ; one of the best players of the NHL ...who care he's 36 ?
Also, don't forget that those players don't have the healt history of Koivu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania
Sedins - are not UFAs....
Morrisson - two straight years of complete and utter crap...
Mikko - not eligible for UFA
Naslund - two straight years of crap
Alfreddson - old contract; his new deal is a cap hit of over 5 million and that is low cause he is structured in a similar way to what we want to do with koivu.
Savard - his deal was signed three years ago... inflation; if he was UFA now he'd get way more
Demitra - seriously injury prone...
I don't care that those players are or aren't UFA 's . They are all equal or better than Koivu , so i don't see why Gainey would have to pay more to re-sign Koivu - for who " it would be an great honour to end his career with The Habs "
By the way ; Naslund 49 goals last 2 seasons " of crap "
I don't care that those players are or aren't UFA 's . They are all equal or better than Koivu , so i don't see why Gainey would have to pay more to re-sign Koivu - for who " it would be an great honour to end his career with The Habs "
By the way ; Naslund 49 goals last 2 seasons " of crap "
RFAs almost always get less money than UFAs; unless you find a crazy GM to give them an offer sheet they are naturally gonna get less than an RFA. If you don't understand the various reasons why UFAs get more than young RFAs then i don't think we have anything to debate. Its a simple concept and if you are gonna compare apples to oranges then there is nothing i can say. Look at Andrei Kostitsyn's RFA contract; Look at Patrick O'Sullivan getting under 3million.... look at numerous other guys throughout the league.
If Naslund was so good for two years why did Vancouver desperate for offence and with a ton of cap room give him up without much fight??
Sundin got offered 10million by the Canucks... Don't tell me Koivu isn't worth half of what Sundin is. If we give him 6 million next year and 4 the year after... but get him at a cap hit of 3.5.... what is the problem. Its not your 6 million... the only thing you should be concerned with is the cap hit.
Selanne ; 9 goals in 13 games . who care he's 38 ?
BrinD'Amour ; better than Koivu and still one of the best two way players of the NHL . Who care that he's 37 ?
Alfredson ; one of the best players of the NHL ...who care he's 36 ?
Also, don't forget that those players don't have the healt history of Koivu
I don't care that those players are or aren't UFA 's . They are all equal or better than Koivu , so i don't see why Gainey would have to pay more to re-sign Koivu - for who " it would be an great honour to end his career with The Habs "
By the way ; Naslund 49 goals last 2 seasons " of crap "
Selanne pretty much stated he won't play anywhere but Anaheim and there was no chance of him playing there for a large salary.
Prior to winning the Cup with Carolina Rod had 278 Points in 409 Games. Even the signing was met with:
Quote:
When the Hurricanes signed captain Rod Brind'Amour to a five-year, $18-million contract extension last June, four days after winning their first Stanley Cup, it looked like a move made purely on emotion.
He proved to keep a good PPG pace going that no one saw coming so it's not like he signed cheap because he went under UFA value, he signed cheap because it didn't seem like he could produce like he used to at the time.
Alfy signed a larger contract is what I'm saying....and your agreeing I guess, you can't use his current contract to say that it's on par to his talents. Which is what you made it seem like because you brought it up in the first place.
Naslund went from being an over PPG player to less than a PPG, 115 points in 164 games is a far cry from the 163 points in 159 games.
RFA's don't get the kinds of contracts UFA's do....I'm sure you noticed that by now.
RFAs almost always get less money than UFAs; unless you find a crazy GM to give them an offer sheet they are naturally gonna get less than an RFA. If you don't understand the various reasons why UFAs get more than young RFAs then i don't think we have anything to debate. Its a simple concept and if you are gonna compare apples to oranges then there is nothing i can say. Look at Andrei Kostitsyn's RFA contract; Look at Patrick O'Sullivan getting under 3million.... look at numerous other guys throughout the league.
If Naslund was so good for two years why did Vancouver desperate for offence and with a ton of cap room give him up without much fight??
Sundin got offered 10million by the Canucks... Don't tell me Koivu isn't worth half of what Sundin is. If we give him 6 million next year and 4 the year after... but get him at a cap hit of 3.5.... what is the problem. Its not your 6 million... the only thing you should be concerned with is the cap hit.
oh yes i understand the difference betwen the 2 groups . But as i said , i don't care that Koivu is a UFA and i don't care that he could get more money as a free agent if another team wants to overpay him . If he wants more money than is real value , just let him go , like Gainey did with Souray , Streit and Ryder .
Koivu is on his decline so i don't see how he can't get more money than he won last seasons .
Selanne pretty much stated he won't play anywhere but Anaheim and there was no chance of him playing there for a large salary.
He proved to keep a good PPG pace going that no one saw coming so it's not like he signed cheap because he went under UFA value, he signed cheap because it didn't seem like he could produce like he used to at the time.
Alfy signed a larger contract is what I'm saying....and your agreeing I guess, you can't use his current contract to say that it's on par to his talents. Which is what you made it seem like because you brought it up in the first place.
Naslund went from being an over PPG player to less than a PPG, 115 points in 164 games is a far cry from the 163 points in 159 games.
RFA's don't get the kinds of contracts UFA's do....I'm sure you noticed that by now.
Koivu pretty said that he wants to play anywhere but for the Habs
What you say about Rod is what i am saying about Koivu ;he should sign cheap because it doesn't seem like he could produce like he used to at the time
Alfredson , i named him because a lot of fans put Koivu at 5 m$ . Alfredson who is by far better than Saku , just signed for the same number , because he wanted to END his career with the Sens - something Koivu said he wants to do here .
Naslund producion felt , but so was the production of Saku last season .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania
If his decline is less than the inflation in the market he ends up being worth more money.
yes , but his decline is more than the inflation .
have a good end of evening ; i am going to bed
Last edited by Beakermania*: 11-08-2008 at 04:28 PM.
Koivu pretty said that he wants to play anywhere but for the Habs
What you say about Rod is what i am saying about Koivu ;he should sign cheap because it doesn't seem like he could produce like he used to at the time
Alfredson , i named him because a lot of fans put Koivu at 5 m$ . Alfredson who is by far better than Saku , just signed for the same number , because he wanted to END his career with the Sens - something Koivu said he wants to do here .
Naslund producion felt , but so was the production of Saku last season .
Koivu produced last year and he's doing it again this year.
Koivu said he wants to play here and sign a new contract here, he never said he wants to sign somewhere else.
I think Saku gets another 3 year deal...the dollars will be around the dollars he makes right now...although, he may go back closer to 3.75-4M who knows???? But, I really think he signs for another 3 years...just a hunch...
Koivu produced last year and he's doing it again this year.
Koivu said he wants to play here and sign a new contract here, he never said he wants to sign somewhere else.
That's what i wanted to say ( my english is bad ) ; Koivu wants to STAY with the Habs , like Selanne wanted to STAY with the Ducks . That's why Selanne took a pay cut and is playing for 2,6 m$ , even if he was a free agent .
The production of Saku last season wasn't good ; 27 points at ES is a very poor production .Lang got 37 points in the same situation , playing for the Hawks .
Selanne ; 9 goals in 13 games . who care he's 38 ?
BrinD'Amour ; better than Koivu and still one of the best two way players of the NHL . Who care that he's 37 ?
Alfredson ; one of the best players of the NHL ...who care he's 36 ?
Also, don't forget that those players don't have the healt history of Koivu
I don't care that those players are or aren't UFA 's . They are all equal or better than Koivu , so i don't see why Gainey would have to pay more to re-sign Koivu - for who " it would be an great honour to end his career with The Habs "
By the way ; Naslund 49 goals last 2 seasons " of crap "
I wouldn't take Naslund, Morrison, or Demitra over Koivu. The others, yes.
oh yes i understand the difference betwen the 2 groups . But as i said , i don't care that Koivu is a UFA and i don't care that he could get more money as a free agent if another team wants to overpay him . If he wants more money than is real value , just let him go , like Gainey did with Souray , Streit and Ryder .
Koivu is on his decline so i don't see how he can't get more money than he won last seasons .
Wouldn't it be throwing Latendresse to the wolves if Koivu didn't re-sign? He's yet to prove he can click with any other center.
It's definitely an interesting question. I'd like to think Gainey/Koivu could get together and answer it pretty quickly and conclusively if they really felt any pressure at all to do so.
Koivu probably knows he could get $6-7M on the open market, I would love to see the Habs sign him for a front-loaded 5-years to keep his salary fair for now and ensure he retires as a Habs legend.
100th, admit that you just hate Koivu and wants him out. No one is saying that Saku deserves a 5M cap hit for a long term deal. What most of us are saying is that he may worth 5M for next season, but it's better to give him a long term deal (4 years) to reduce his cap hit to around 3.5M. Do you see anything wrong with (5+4+3+2) or 3 years at (5+4+3)? Anyways, that's what I think he'll get.
Alfredson , i named him because a lot of fans put Koivu at 5 m$ . Alfredson who is by far better than Saku , just signed for the same number , because he wanted to END his career with the Sens - something Koivu said he wants to do here .
People often forget that Alfredsson is Top 5 in the NHL since 2003 for points per game average. Of course, they tend to ignore that list because Crosby is at the top of it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck
Wouldn't it be throwing Latendresse to the wolves if Koivu didn't re-sign? He's yet to prove he can click with any other center.
Yes, and he will never click with any other center ever in his career ever.
People often forget that Alfredsson is Top 5 in the NHL since 2003 for points per game average. Of course, they tend to ignore that list because Crosby is at the top of it
Yes, and he will never click with any other center ever in his career ever.
Still, they'll all move to Finland together and be very happy. He might click with Mikko however.
Koivu said that he wanted to be with the Habs NEXT year. No problem with that. We don't have any centers ready to take his spot. If he wants to stay longer, that's fine. But he may still want to play with his brother in 2010-11- or just retire after 15 seasons in the NHL.
People often forget that Alfredsson is Top 5 in the NHL since 2003 for points per game average. Of course, they tend to ignore that list because Crosby is at the top of it
Yes, and he will never click with any other center ever in his career ever.
I didn't say that. Right now, there are 3 centers on the Habs who don't/can't bring out the best in Lats. Lats is 21 and by the law of averages the Habs will draft or trade for a center who will click with him (and vice versa) in the future. Many a thread had been started about the inability of the Habs to draft talented centers in the 21st century (including, I might add, the year 2000, which technically ended the 20th century). Other NHL teams have had better luck or better scouts or different draft priorities.
I would love for Koivu to be re-signed and finish his career in Montreal. I'm hoping for something along the lines of a 2 year $6 million contract.
I think you'd need to more than double your term and significantly increase the annual salary in order to achieve your stated desire. It's fair to hope for him to take a ridiculous discount, but I don't know why anybody would hope he only plays 2 more years?
