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11-09-2008, 06:08 AM
  #51
Agnostic
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
I dont agree with most of you guys, i didnt thought it was dirty. Kostopoulos clearly didnt want to do that. Van Ryn bend down a bit just before getting to the board and both of them was at the same speed and Kosto just hit him like a normal play that we see in everygame but Van Ryn clearly put himself in a vulnerable position. Im not trying to protect TKO or putting the blame on Van Ryn, but come on, he knew TKO was coming, it was very dangerous to put your head toward the board like that knowing damn well the guy behind you going at full speed will finish he hit.
I agree 100 percent. Kostopoulos had no way of knowing that Van Ryn was going to change directions and put his back squarely to him. I don't ever want to blame the victim, and I'll repeat that 100 times, but I think both players would have approached the situation differently had they knew what the outcome would be. Kostopoulos game is bearing down on people at the boards, and Van Ryn should have the experience to know he's going to be hit if he makes a move like that.

The unfortunate thing is the extent of the injuries, which now precludes anyone from looking at the play as anything but vile and intentional.

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11-09-2008, 06:08 AM
  #52
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It was an unfortunate play, I don't consider Kostopoulos the type of player that goes around like that, I haven't seen it much in the past, I probably won't see it happen much in the future. Sometimes things like this happen, you could see he wasn't happy about it after with his facial experession. Nonetheless, he got the five minute like he deserved and thats that, maybe a minor suspension but nothing else.

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11-09-2008, 06:26 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by earl the habs fan View Post
I agree 100 percent. Kostopoulos had no way of knowing that Van Ryn was going to change directions and put his back squarely to him. I don't ever want to blame the victim, and I'll repeat that 100 times, but I think both players would have approached the situation differently had they knew what the outcome would be. Kostopoulos game is bearing down on people at the boards, and Van Ryn should have the experience to know he's going to be hit if he makes a move like that.

The unfortunate thing is the extent of the injuries, which now precludes anyone from looking at the play as anything but vile and intentional.
That's what puzzle me, from both the hitter and victim perspective... they heard of or saw what happened to Bergeron last year, they also know about the gazillions of players who retired because of post-concussion syndrom... every single year (for the last few at least) there's player(s) unjured for long stretches because of hits like that... they're aware of all that...

and yet, we see players charging at others players back, or players turning their back on someone who's about to hit them...

When I see things like this, can't help but thinking... gorillas on skates!

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11-09-2008, 07:07 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Tom Kostopoulos View Post
What is the difference between this hit and the hit AKost suffered a few weeks ago?
don't want to troll but do you think Kost should be suspended for his head shot at Grabovski. Just curious

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11-09-2008, 07:09 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by smack66 View Post
don't want to troll but do you think Kost should be suspended for his head shot at Grabovski. Just curious
what head shot ??????

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Old
11-09-2008, 07:30 AM
  #56
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I don't think your the first to admit this. Everyone agrees it was a dirty hit.
Not everyone. I think it was an unfortunate hit, and it's unfortunate for Van Ryn that his tactic is going to cost him time on the IR. Unfortunate for Kostopolous that he'll probably get suspended for a brief time. But it wasn't dirty.

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11-09-2008, 07:32 AM
  #57
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I feel bad for Van Ryn, but I don't understand all the drama queens saying this was the worst hit in the past 2 years. Every time we see a dirty hit, some idiot has to make it out to be the most volatile act they've ever seen in their life.

Lest we forget how Steve Downie, with full intention, launched himself like a missile at an unsuspecting MacAmmond. Lucky to not have his neck or spine broken.

Randy Jones gave a shove to Bergeron when he was in such a position as to possibly break his neck. People thought he was dead for the 1st 10 minutes, & a vegetable the next day.

Just last week, Darcy Tucker tried to take a guy's knee out, which would have effectively ended his season.

Let's get back to frank discussion & end this Chicken Little ********.

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11-09-2008, 07:42 AM
  #58
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Bottom line, you punish the action, not the intent.

As for turning the back, Van Ryn was trying to protect the puck and Kostopolis should be wary of this when coming in. Does turning the back leave the defenseman vulnerable to hits from behind? Yes but thats a legal manoeuvre and I doubt at any time he's hoping to get his face broken in the boards.

 
Old
11-09-2008, 07:49 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Tenacious C View Post
Bottom line, you punish the action, not the intent.

As for turning the back, Van Ryn was trying to protect the puck and Kostopolis should be wary of this when coming in. Does turning the back leave the defenseman vulnerable to hits from behind? Yes but thats a legal manoeuvre and I doubt at any time he's hoping to get his face broken in the boards.
Then we'd see 2 players suspended for every game. Let's not kid ourselves here, defencemen turn their backs to protect the puck & they get run into the glass on a constant basis.

You can't punish the intent. He needs to be punished for the result.

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11-09-2008, 08:03 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
Then we'd see 2 players suspended for every game. Let's not kid ourselves here, defencemen turn their backs to protect the puck & they get run into the glass on a constant basis.

You can't punish the intent. He needs to be punished for the result.
I think we're comparing apples to apples here.

I meant hits from behind like last nights.

The hits that go unpunished have the forward easing up a little before driving up the Dman in the boards.

 
Old
11-09-2008, 08:30 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Like I said earlier, Kosto might have thought Van Ryn was going to turn. Which any smart defenseman should have done. The only problem I have is that Van Ryn's numbers were in plain view the whole time.

Kosto had time to pull back off of that check, but he proceeds to raise his arms and drive Van Ryn into the boards.
I think what happened is Kosto took it for granted that Van Ryn was going to do the smart thing, and didn't prepare at all for him to turn toward the boards instead. When you go into the corner, you can't be 100% sure that the other player isn't going to turn toward the boards. 99.9% of the time they won't, but in that .1% when they do, injuries like this happen.

Van Ryn bears some responsibility for the hit- turning into the boards the way he did was really dumb- but Kostopoulos should have been more prepared to back off the hit on the slim chance that Van Ryn turned toward the boards the way he did. Kosto's not a habitually dirty player or a dirty hitter, I think it was more of a brain cramp than anything, but it had pretty serious results and I have no problem with a suspension.

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Old
11-09-2008, 08:31 AM
  #62
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That hit was as much MVR's fault as it was Kosto's.

The guy let up 2 feet from the boards and turned his back. Stupid Moron he is.

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11-09-2008, 08:33 AM
  #63
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Same thing happened with Patrice Bergeron last year... I don't understand why players in that position let some space between them and the boards...

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11-09-2008, 08:36 AM
  #64
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yea suspend kosto even though he's liked a lot, a cheap shot is a cheap shot.

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Old
11-09-2008, 08:45 AM
  #65
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take off the homer glasses guys. he hit the numbers, i'm thinking 3-5 games. no place in the game for that.

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Old
11-09-2008, 08:46 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Tenacious C View Post
Bottom line, you punish the action, not the intent.

As for turning the back, Van Ryn was trying to protect the puck and Kostopolis should be wary of this when coming in. Does turning the back leave the defenseman vulnerable to hits from behind? Yes but thats a legal manoeuvre and I doubt at any time he's hoping to get his face broken in the boards.
When a player turns his back at the last second and they know there's a checking forward coming full speed, what do you expect? There's less than a second between the time Van Ryn turns and Kostopoulos hits him. If Van Ryn hadn't turned his back (knowing fully well Kosto was coming in), nobody would have talked about the hit at all.

I don't know why everyone expects players to have lightning quick reflexes. And if Kosto doesn't come hard to hit the dmen, he's not playing in the NHL as it's his job.

The Leafs players in general were turning their back on the incoming checker. Whether it's their way to draw penalties or they're just brainless, I don't know, but they're got hospital bills coming if they keep this on.

Btw, I'm not happy that Van Ryn is hurt at all, but the dumb play here is turning his back. You can't expect the opposing forward to change his play in a fraction of a second because you're doing a stupid move.

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Old
11-09-2008, 08:48 AM
  #67
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Van Ryn saw Kosto coming, he turned his body as Kostopolous went for the hit. Clearly it's his own fault.

Seeing you guys ***** like this makes me laugh.

So self-righteous...


If a player doesn't do what is necesary to protect himself then he deserves to get injured. I don't see how this is any worse than a headshot.

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11-09-2008, 08:51 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Tenacious C View Post
I think we're comparing apples to apples here.

I meant hits from behind like last nights.

The hits that go unpunished have the forward easing up a little before driving up the Dman in the boards.
It was pretty similar to the Kostitsyn hit on Schenn in the last game. Andrei didn't let up & slammed him into the glass, but it can be argued that VanRyn had his back to Kosto for a split second longer. If Schenn had his head angled like Van Ryn, you get the exact same result & Kostitsyn is vilified.

My point is, the NHL probably averages 1-2 boarding calls per game. There's probably 1 potentially dangerous hit every 3 games. Kosto's intentions were to drive him into the glass, which is a common occurrence. If you suspend him for the intent, you start cracking down on all the dangerous plays. If you're insinuating players only get injured when the player doesn't let up, I disagree. I see players not letting up constantly.

Kosto will get suspended for making the mistake of injuring Van Ryn, a miscalculation if you will. He can't be suspended for wanting to smear him into the glass like players do on a regular basis.

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Old
11-09-2008, 08:54 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by YOUTH OF HABS View Post
take off the homer glasses guys. he hit the numbers, i'm thinking 3-5 games. no place in the game for that.
Look at the Hollweg suspensions this year for an indication of what the length for Kosto will be.

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11-09-2008, 08:54 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by smack66 View Post
don't want to troll but do you think Kost should be suspended for his head shot at Grabovski. Just curious
Like the Sauer hit on AKost and SKost putting Grabo on his butt have any similarities

You sound like a prime candidate for today's NHL ref

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11-09-2008, 08:56 AM
  #71
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Call me an ******* or whatever, but I absolutely love hits like that. Steve Downie became one of my favorite players because of his hit on McAmmond last season.
You are what you called yourself because that hit and that type of play has no need in our game, i'd rather see a clean open ice hit any day than a hit from behind that could be career or life threatening.

Kosto deserves 3-5 games and he knows it and will take it.

Thing that pisses me of is that Stajan is saying it was dirty and they made us pay...what? We lost, big deal we beat them before as well...they never punished us by hitting or fighting, if anything they crashed the net all night and dove everytime they felt a stick or arm near them...way to show us.

Leaf players and fans shouldn't whine too much about this with the worse repeat player in the league for this type of hit in Hollweg.

Carbo should have had Kommy or O'Byrne do something about the crashing of your keeper, if not unleash Laroque to set the tone.

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Old
11-09-2008, 08:58 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
Van Ryn saw Kosto coming, he turned his body as Kostopolous went for the hit. Clearly it's his own fault.

Seeing you guys ***** like this makes me laugh.

So self-righteous...


If a player doesn't do what is necesary to protect himself then he deserves to get injured. I don't see how this is any worse than a headshot.
Agreed 100 percent. The more you look at the replay the more it becomes clear Van Ryn was trying to draw the hit. He sure did get it.

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Old
11-09-2008, 09:01 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by smack66 View Post
don't want to troll but do you think Kost should be suspended for his head shot at Grabovski. Just curious
If you're going to suspend Kostistyn for that, then suspend about 3 other Habs for getting their mitts high & knocking Grabovski on his ass. It's common sense that tells you the difference between a shove & a forearm shiver or a vicious punch. It's also common sense that tells you players don't get suspended for shoving someone.

Why are you asking about something which should be common sense? I suppose it's not so common.

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11-09-2008, 09:03 AM
  #74
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Didn't it take Hollweg like 3 hits from behind to get suspended? Same special treatment should be given to Kostopoulos.

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Old
11-09-2008, 09:05 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
It was pretty similar to the Kostitsyn hit on Schenn in the last game. Andrei didn't let up & slammed him into the glass, but it can be argued that VanRyn had his back to Kosto for a split second longer. If Schenn had his head angled like Van Ryn, you get the exact same result & Kostitsyn is vilified.

My point is, the NHL probably averages 1-2 boarding calls per game. There's probably 1 potentially dangerous hit every 3 games. Kosto's intentions were to drive him into the glass, which is a common occurrence. If you suspend him for the intent, you start cracking down on all the dangerous plays. If you're insinuating players only get injured when the player doesn't let up, I disagree. I see players not letting up constantly.

Kosto will get suspended for making the mistake of injuring Van Ryn, a miscalculation if you will. He can't be suspended for wanting to smear him into the glass like players do on a regular basis.
I see where you are coming from, but there is a huge difference between finishing and gliding into the boards. The difference is twofold. The chances of injury decrease and the player making the hit is showing that the intent to injure is not there

BTW

42.1 Boarding – A boarding penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who checks an opponent in such a manner that causes the opponent to be thrown violently in the boards. The severity of the penalty, based upon the degree of violence of the impact with the boards, shall be at the discretion of the Referee.

There is an enormous amount of judgment involved in the application of this rule by the Referees. The onus is on the player (or goalkeeper) applying the check to ensure his opponent is not in a vulnerable position and if so, he must avoid the contact. However, there is also a responsibility on the player with the puck to avoid placing himself in a dangerous and vulnerable position. This balance must be considered by the Referees when applying this rule.

Any unnecessary contact with a player playing the puck on an obvious “icing” or “off-side” play which results in that player being knocked into the boards is “boarding” and must be penalized as such. In other instances where there is no contact with the boards, it should be treated as “charging.”

44.1 Checking from Behind – A check from behind is a check delivered on a player who is not aware of the impending hit, therefore unable to protect or defend himself, and contact is made on the back part of the body. When a player intentionally turns his body to create contact with his back, no penalty shall be assessed.

TKost was called for Boarding. It was the right call in my opinion. It would have been the right call in the hit on AKost by sauer as well in my opinion. The league effectively defended the way AKost was hit the way you are describing this situation

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