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Old
11-09-2008, 10:08 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Didn't it take Hollweg like 3 hits from behind to get suspended? Same special treatment should be given to Kostopoulos.
What makes me scratch my head is how the guy got his hand broken after seeing Kosto coming right for him. Players need to be responsible for their own safety instead of trying to draw 2 minutes.

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11-09-2008, 10:10 AM
  #77
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When a player turns his back at the last second and they know there's a checking forward coming full speed, what do you expect? There's less than a second between the time Van Ryn turns and Kostopoulos hits him. If Van Ryn hadn't turned his back (knowing fully well Kosto was coming in), nobody would have talked about the hit at all.

I don't know why everyone expects players to have lightning quick reflexes. And if Kosto doesn't come hard to hit the dmen, he's not playing in the NHL as it's his job.

The Leafs players in general were turning their back on the incoming checker. Whether it's their way to draw penalties or they're just brainless, I don't know, but they're got hospital bills coming if they keep this on.

Btw, I'm not happy that Van Ryn is hurt at all, but the dumb play here is turning his back. You can't expect the opposing forward to change his play in a fraction of a second because you're doing a stupid move.
I totally agree with the fact that it is a split second decision from Kostopolous that is quasi impossible to make.

However, if you avoid coming in full steam in a straight line, you can avoid putting yourself in a position that could hit a player from behind. If Kostopolis comes in on the forcheck at a slight angle, he rubs out the D man and forces the play in one direction.

Trust me, I love the big hit, but darting in full speed on a player with his back to you is a little reckless iMO.

 
Old
11-09-2008, 10:11 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Didn't it take Hollweg like 3 hits from behind to get suspended? Same special treatment should be given to Kostopoulos.
I believe Hollweg got suspended for a certain number of bad hits in a time frame and then went out and did it again. Hollweg is in a special class for this kind of stuff. Something Leaf fans should remember before lecturing

However, each infraction can warrant a suspension on its own. Like Downie for example

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11-09-2008, 10:12 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post

TKost was called for Boarding. It was the right call in my opinion. It would have been the right call in the hit on AKost by sauer as well in my opinion. The league effectively defended the way AKost was hit the way you are describing this situation
I'm not talking about the Sauer hit, I'm talking about the Kostitsyn hit on Schenn in the 2nd game of the season.

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11-09-2008, 10:14 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
I believe Hollweg got suspended for a certain number of bad hits in a time frame and then went out and did it again. Hollweg is in a special class for this kind of stuff. Something Leaf fans should remember before lecturing

However, each infraction can warrant a suspension on its own. Like Downie for example
They were still 5 minute majors for boaring I believe.

Downie lunged at his target and skated from the other end of the ice. I know you weren't comparing the two, but I don't think Kostopoulos had intent.

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11-09-2008, 10:16 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Tenacious C View Post
I totally agree with the fact that it is a split second decision from Kostopolous that is quasi impossible to make.

However, if you avoid coming in full steam in a straight line, you can avoid putting yourself in a position that could hit a player from behind. If Kostopolis comes in on the forcheck at a slight angle, he rubs out the D man and forces the play in one direction.

Trust me, I love the big hit, but darting in full speed on a player with his back to you is a little reckless iMO.
There is enough time for any player to take the arms out of the check and reduce the force into the boards. everyday life is full of split second decisions. Sometimes we make the wrong choice. Unfortunately some guys make a habit of either making the wrong choice or making the same choice all the time. I don't think TKost falls into that category, but he is still responsible.

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11-09-2008, 10:18 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
There is enough time for any player to take the arms out of the check and reduce the force into the boards. everyday life is full of split second decisions. Sometimes we make the wrong choice. Unfortunately some guys make a habit of either making the wrong choice or making the same choice all the time. I don't think TKost falls into that category, but he is still responsible.
I agree with that as well. That the point i made in my first post.


The post you quoted was making the point that if the player is unable to make those decision, avoid putting yourself in a position where you need to.

 
Old
11-09-2008, 10:21 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Tenacious C View Post
I totally agree with the fact that it is a split second decision from Kostopolous that is quasi impossible to make.

However, if you avoid coming in full steam in a straight line, you can avoid putting yourself in a position that could hit a player from behind. If Kostopolis comes in on the forcheck at a slight angle, he rubs out the D man and forces the play in one direction.

Trust me, I love the big hit, but darting in full speed on a player with his back to you is a little reckless iMO.
If Kosto comes in at an angle, not only would Van Ryn get to the puck first but he would easily clear the puck on the side that Kosto is not coming from.

Hockey is meant to be played a certain way....With intensity. How much time do you think these guys have for critical thinking? They use their instincts. Kosto had the instinct of jamming Van Ryn on the boards to get him to fumble the puck, just like Van Ryn had the instinct of turning his back to protect the puck.

If everyone had to make different decisions to make sure that they don't injure someone, hockey would be a very difficult game. Much more so than already.

Sure there are many things that can be done to avoid injuries, but hockey is mainly split second thinking, you don't have time to plan your play.

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11-09-2008, 10:22 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
They were still 5 minute majors for boaring I believe.

Downie lunged at his target and skated from the other end of the ice. I know you weren't comparing the two, but I don't think Kostopoulos had intent.
That is correct. I am not saying TKost intended to hurt the guy. Just that there are single event suspensions and also repeat offender suspensions like Hollweg

On the other hand I think they gauge the severity regardless of intent. Take the oft debated Bertuzzi situation. He definitely intended to hurt the man but not to break his neck and end his career. I am certain the injuries were the major factor in that suspension.

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11-09-2008, 10:22 AM
  #85
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There really shouldn't be any room for hits from behind in this league. It was dirty, a dumb penalty to take, and he should be suspended. But I'm thinking the fact that he's a first-time offender will mitigate his suspension to a 1 or 2 game one.

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11-09-2008, 10:23 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
There is enough time for any player to take the arms out of the check and reduce the force into the boards. everyday life is full of split second decisions. Sometimes we make the wrong choice. Unfortunately some guys make a habit of either making the wrong choice or making the same choice all the time. I don't think TKost falls into that category, but he is still responsible.
Van Ryn is clearly the one who made the wrong choice. Just like everyone who receives a headshot...they make themselves vulnerable.

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Originally Posted by smon View Post
There really shouldn't be any room for hits from behind in this league. It was dirty, a dumb penalty to take, and he should be suspended. But I'm thinking the fact that he's a first-time offender will mitigate his suspension to a 1 or 2 game one.
So you probably think that Markov's hit deserved the 2min penalty he received? Since it was technically a hit from behind.

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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Are you telling me that you didn't see AKost sliding his stick under Schenn's skate making him fall???

At least that's what I saw. Then, I don't know if he did that on purpose or the stick was just there.....but I did see the Kosty' stick was the reason why Schenn fell...
Sorry that's ********. Kosty's was holding his stick with one hand and it was only near schenn's skate as schenn was falling. He already proceeded to fall before Kost's stick even appeared near his skate. Schenn was skating on an angle (upper body one way, legs the other), he either hit a bad spot in the ice or he lost balance..happens all the time.

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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
I was less amazed that Markov was called than the fact that Sauer was not called for hitting AKost.

And BTW Markov was called for Boarding not hitting from behind. There is a difference. There is a lot more latitude in the refs decision with Boarding.
I know he was called for boarding, but what I found funny was that the dude he hit hit the boards with his shoulder (IIRC). I didn't think there was much impact either.

Is Komisarek gonna start receiving boarding calls when he stops players on the boards? Because by the definition you posted, Komisarek "violentely" slams MANY players against the boards.

Let's just put styrofoam and bubble wrap on these boards so these girlymen stop whining.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 11-09-2008 at 03:26 PM.
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Old
11-09-2008, 10:25 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Tenacious C View Post
I agree with that as well. That the point i made in my first post.


The post you quoted was making the point that if the player is unable to make those decision, avoid putting yourself in a position where you need to.

I understood that. I'm just reinforcing the fact that things can be done in most cases. Avoiding the situation altogether is certainly one of them. make sense?

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11-09-2008, 10:25 AM
  #88
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Sure Van Ryn saw Kosto coming. Still it's absolutely not true that he SUDDENLY turned his back on him. He had his back turned the whole time. What you see though is that the puck was coming fairly fast but either Van Ryn missed it or it caught something along the boards. If the puck continues that way, chances are Van Ryn skate with it behind the net what made Kosto thought that he would have hit on his side. Van Ryn seeing that he wasn't able to follow with the puck, decided to protect it by staying that way. To me, Kosto predicted to see Van Ryn and the puck going one way, Van Ryn had to react to the movement of the puck. But having said all of that, Van Ryn had his back turned THE WHOLE TIME. And now that it's a strategy to turn your back so you know you wouldn't be hit, Kosto knew it and should not have done it.

I don't care if he's a Habs or not, I'm also a fan of hockey and if you want this to stop, someday, somehow, you need to punish it. He was given a 5 and a game, so for sure it's automatic that he'll have at least 1 but I would go as far as 3.

Again, let's be wiser than all the other fanbases who keeps mentioning how bad we are and let's acknowledge that it's suspendable. We would be so mad if it would have happened to our own (see Kostitsyn....). Geez, Grabovski butt ended Price and we want him dead....Van Ryn has multiple injuries after that hit.

Another thing, if AKost meant what he did to Schenn, but we'll never know, that for me is far more dangerous than what Kosto did....

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11-09-2008, 10:26 AM
  #89
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What constitutes a supension though? If the guy gets hurt real bad like Van Ryn or Bergeron or just for hitting from behind ...aka Boarding.

If he gets suspended it will most likely be for 2 games but then all hits from behind should be suspendable...not just the ones that hurt people.

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Old
11-09-2008, 10:27 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
If Kosto comes in at an angle, not only would Van Ryn get to the puck first but he would easily clear the puck on the side that Kosto is not coming from.

Hockey is meant to be played a certain way....With intensity. How much time do you think these guys have for critical thinking? They use their instincts. Kosto had the instinct of jamming Van Ryn on the boards to get him to fumble the puck, just like Van Ryn had the instinct of turning his back to protect the puck.

If everyone had to make different decisions to make sure that they don't injure someone, hockey would be a very difficult game. Much more so than already.

Sure there are many things that can be done to avoid injuries, but hockey is mainly split second thinking, you don't have time to plan your play.

I just noticed something on sportscenter...when Van Ryn turned his back, he was trying to shovel the puck along the boards.

My guess is that Kosto thought that MVR was going to turn toward the back of the net (which he appeared to be)...

****** play but it happens. I dont like to see it, but it happens

 
Old
11-09-2008, 10:29 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
I have on the leaf jumbo tron and on my own TV. Plus I was sitting pretty close to the action.

Take a look at it again yourself

Look at the moment where Kosto make his weight transfer. It's at exactly the moment Van Ryn fakes turning left then breaks and turns right. You cant do that if you dont want to get hurt. You learn that from pee wee on.

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11-09-2008, 10:29 AM
  #92
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I think people need to watch this again. Van was about to turn sideways along the boards, you can see him turn his shoulder. And at the last second he turns back towards the boards. Thus Kosto didn't have much time to react. Had Van continued to go to the left side with his shoulder along the boards, none of this would have happened.

Do I think it sucks, yes....do I think Kosto did it on purpose, no not at all. But you can see Van turn his shoulders then turn back if you watch it.

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11-09-2008, 10:29 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post

Another thing, if AKost meant what he did to Schenn, but we'll never know, that for me is far more dangerous than what Kosto did....
What did Akost do to Schenn?

Schenn fell and AKost was chasing the puck. Should he have stopped when he saw Schenn fall?

Jesus christ....

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11-09-2008, 10:30 AM
  #94
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So you probably think that Markov's hit deserved the 2min penalty he received? Since it was technically a hit from behind.
I was less amazed that Markov was called than the fact that Sauer was not called for hitting AKost.

And BTW Markov was called for Boarding not hitting from behind. There is a difference. There is a lot more latitude in the refs decision with Boarding

42.1 Boarding – A boarding penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who checks an opponent in such a manner that causes the opponent to be thrown violently in the boards. The severity of the penalty, based upon the degree of violence of the impact with the boards, shall be at the discretion of the Referee.

There is an enormous amount of judgment involved in the application of this rule by the Referees. The onus is on the player (or goalkeeper) applying the check to ensure his opponent is not in a vulnerable position and if so, he must avoid the contact. However, there is also a responsibility on the player with the puck to avoid placing himself in a dangerous and vulnerable position. This balance must be considered by the Referees when applying this rule.

Any unnecessary contact with a player playing the puck on an obvious “icing” or “off-side” play which results in that player being knocked into the boards is “boarding” and must be penalized as such. In other instances where there is no contact with the boards, it should be treated as “charging.”

44.1 Checking from Behind – A check from behind is a check delivered on a player who is not aware of the impending hit, therefore unable to protect or defend himself, and contact is made on the back part of the body. When a player intentionally turns his body to create contact with his back, no penalty shall be assessed.

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11-09-2008, 10:30 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Tenacious C View Post
I just noticed something on sportscenter...when Van Ryn turned his back, he was trying to shovel the puck along the boards.

My guess is that Kosto thought that MVR was going to turn toward the back of the net (which he appeared to be)...

****** play but it happens. I dont like to see it, but it happens
I didnt read this until after I posted right after you. I saw the same exact thing. People need to watch this again in slow motion. I noticed it in full motion. It wasn't a dirty hit. It was unfortunate yes, but Van was turning his shoulders towards the net then at the last second turned right at the boards. I'm guessing he thought Kosto would head in the direction of the net, and didn't.

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11-09-2008, 10:30 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
What did Akost do to Schenn?

Schenn fell and AKost was chasing the puck. Should he have stopped when he saw Schenn fall?

Jesus christ....
Are you telling me that you didn't see AKost sliding his stick under Schenn's skate making him fall???

At least that's what I saw. Then, I don't know if he did that on purpose or the stick was just there.....but I did see the Kosty' stick was the reason why Schenn fell...

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11-09-2008, 10:31 AM
  #97
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What did Akost do to Schenn?

Schenn fell and AKost was chasing the puck. Should he have stopped when he saw Schenn fall?

Jesus christ....
Actually Andrei poked out Schenn's skate as he was turning.

Jesus Price...

 
Old
11-09-2008, 10:32 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
What did Akost do to Schenn?

Schenn fell and AKost was chasing the puck. Should he have stopped when he saw Schenn fall?

Jesus christ....
AKost's stick was slid into the outside blade of Schenn. whether or not it took him down? maybe , maybe not. But it looked suspicious

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11-09-2008, 10:33 AM
  #99
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I didnt read this until after I posted right after you. I saw the same exact thing. People need to watch this again in slow motion. I noticed it in full motion. It wasn't a dirty hit. It was unfortunate yes, but Van was turning his shoulders towards the net then at the last second turned right at the boards. I'm guessing he thought Kosto would head in the direction of the net, and didn't.
yep...kind of a result of various little things that BOTH players shouldnt of done.


I find it kind of funny that Van Ryn had to stop to be able to clear the puck the other way

 
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11-09-2008, 10:36 AM
  #100
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Look at the moment where Kosto make his weight transfer. It's at exactly the moment Van Ryn fakes turning left then breaks and turns right. You cant do that if you dont want to get hurt. You learn that from pee wee on.
Looks like Kostopoulos thought Van Ryn was going to go left to skate behind his net but he faked him and went right, too late for Kosto to do anything.

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