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Old
11-09-2008, 10:37 AM
  #101
JrHockeyFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maliki2 View Post
I didnt read this until after I posted right after you. I saw the same exact thing. People need to watch this again in slow motion. I noticed it in full motion. It wasn't a dirty hit. It was unfortunate yes, but Van was turning his shoulders towards the net then at the last second turned right at the boards. I'm guessing he thought Kosto would head in the direction of the net, and didn't.
As the rule shows, both the skater and the hitter have responsibilities in this boarding situation. It is up to the ref to decide how to divide the responsibility.

whether or not a review of the hit will lighten or eliminate a suspension of TKost? Don't know. But the hitter does not get a blank check for finishing the hit

It is a pretty quick choice for a ref to make. I still think the ref made the right one

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Old
11-09-2008, 10:43 AM
  #102
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5 games.

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Old
11-09-2008, 10:51 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Tenacious C View Post
yep...kind of a result of various little things that BOTH players shouldnt of done.
Exactly, only the lesson of how to protect oneself will be lost amongst the tidal wave of outrage.

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Old
11-09-2008, 10:52 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
I know he was called for boarding, but what I found funny was that the dude he hit hit the boards with his shoulder (IIRC). I didn't think there was much impact either.

Is Komisarek gonna start receiving boarding calls when he stops players on the boards? Because by the definition you posted, Komisarek "violentely" slams MANY players against the boards.

Let's just put styrofoam and bubble wrap on these boards so these girlymen stop whining.
There are degrees of "violently" as well as the point of contact. A body hits the boards flush and usually nothing comes out of it. A head hits the boards/glass first and it moves into a different area

Where it becomes "unfair" at times is when you get a guy penalized for making a good clean effective hit. Sometimes a ref just decides the hit was too hard. the Boarding rule allows that latitude and so do charging calls when boards are not involved

I think a line is being drawn to avoid an eventual catastrophy

The NFL faced this with those monster hits. They would have weekly highlite reels of them. When guys started getting quad paralysis injuries they had to tighten up on the rules. It was the best thing for the safety of all. same thing in hockey. do we have to have a catastrophy to prove a point?

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Old
11-09-2008, 10:57 AM
  #105
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It was dirty, but it wasn't only Kosto's fault.
Just like a guy said before, it's like if Van Ryn passed a red light with his little Honda Civic, Kosto going the other way around sees doing that and wants to make him pay because he's on the green light, hits him with his truck even thought he could've stopped and barely hit him.

Stupid of Kosto, but also kinda stupid of Van Ryn.

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Old
11-09-2008, 11:01 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
There are degrees of "violently" as well as the point of contact. A body hits the boards flush and usually nothing comes out of it. A head hits the boards/glass first and it moves into a different area

Where it becomes "unfair" at times is when you get a guy penalized for making a good clean effective hit. Sometimes a ref just decides the hit was too hard. the Boarding rule allows that latitude and so do charging calls when boards are not involved

I think a line is being drawn to avoid an eventual catastrophy
I don't think I've ever seen a boarding call that wasn't a hit from behind. Personally I didn't think that Markov's hit should have been a boarding call. It was a solid hit but hardly violent or too hard.

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Old
11-09-2008, 11:06 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
Look at the moment where Kosto make his weight transfer. It's at exactly the moment Van Ryn fakes turning left then breaks and turns right. You cant do that if you dont want to get hurt. You learn that from pee wee on.
Soon you'll realize, like I have, that many posters on this board have never actually played organized body-contact hockey, so it's hard to avoid over-reacting in support of the "victim".

And in fact, Kosto's angle would have had him meeting almost face to face (more of a frontal 45 degree angle I guess) as he had him cut off from doing the predictable thing and going behind, or atleast throwing the puck behind the net. Result sucks, and Kosto should be held accountable for the result, but there was absolutely no intent to hit from behind on that play, I don't care what anyone else types, and that will keep the suspension to a minimum.

I've been there 1000 times on the ice, and I've had to sit my time in the box, but as a forechecker I approach that play the same way everytime. And most coaches would sit you on the bench for a while if you don't. Sometimes things go wrong, and it sucks.

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Old
11-09-2008, 11:15 AM
  #108
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like usual they will look at the results so he will get suspended.

had the Toronto player come out of this with nothing he wouldn't get a suspension.

I'm not saying he does not deserve a suspension...just that like usual they will go on result as oposed to intent

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Old
11-09-2008, 11:22 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
I don't think I've ever seen a boarding call that wasn't a hit from behind. Personally I didn't think that Markov's hit should have been a boarding call. It was a solid hit but hardly violent or too hard.
It is rare to see boarding face to face, but clearly the rules allow for it. Just remember that hitting from behind calls indicate that the player being hit was considered as being unaware of what was coming

I did not think Markov deserved a penalty either. Certainly not if Sauer's hit was deemed okay. But the rule allows the ref the choice. Hey they aren't perfect either. At least it was just 2 min. maybe the earlier TKost hit was rolling around in the refs head

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Old
11-09-2008, 11:23 AM
  #110
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I think Van Ryn is an idiot on this one, just as stupid as A kost was. He sees Kostopoulos coming and insted of protecting the puck and taking the hit, he fakes right lowers is body and goes left, Im sorry, not that I like he got injured but he sort of asked for it.

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Old
11-09-2008, 11:28 AM
  #111
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Hockey is a tough game, suck it up you sissies.

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Old
11-09-2008, 11:28 AM
  #112
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this is the problem with hockey... fast paced, split decisions in an impact game. I admitted to him deserving a penalty but at some point a player has to be responsible for his well-being/safety. I'm pretty sure he saw Kosts coming in yet he deliberately turned his back on him. There is more than one way to dig a puck out of a corner if you see an opposing player coming in to ensure your safety. I truely don't think Kosts expected him to turn his back to him and I'm convinced he didn't want to injure him. The A. Kostitsyn trip was dirtier IMO...

This team is really playing bad, undisciplined hockey. They have won too many ugly games this year already and now they are losing ugly.

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Old
11-09-2008, 11:35 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by number9 View Post
van ryn was turning and kostopolous was going in for the shoulder, then he turned the other way and tk caught him from behind. watch the replay a few times.

sorry but i gotta say this thread is some self righteous bs btw.
You have it exactly right. I made a screenshot of the video, frozen when Kostopolous is about a foot or two away from hitting him, and at that point Van Ryn is then at almost a 90 degree angle from Kostopolous - if VR hadn't then turned it would have been a hit to the shoulder. Expecting K to somehow avoid the check when he is flying in there and is a foot or two away is asking the impossible. I suppose he may have been able to soften the hit - but no way he could avoid it.

If anyone can tell me how to copy my screenshot image into a post here, I'd be pleased to do so..I can't figure out how to do it.

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Old
11-09-2008, 11:36 AM
  #114
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I dont want to debate for hours so I made this. Kostopoulos is not to blame in this...plain and simple.

Part 1.
-Kostopoulos follows the player at an angle so that when he turns in the corner he'll be lined up.
-Notice no strides just a glide by Kostopoulos.
-Van Ryn grabs the puck and as expected starts turning to head behind the net. At that point we see Kosto's side and Van Ryn's back and it looks like he's just about to get perpendicular with Kosto.
-Kostopoulos starts his weight transfer in image #5. There is nothing that can change this at this point.
-You'll notice on image #6 that Van Ryn starts to turn back the other way(look at his left skate).




Part 2.
- Van Ryn literally turns his back to Kostopoulos.
- Kostopoulos has already done his weight transfer and cant do anyting.
(9 and 10 should be inverted)



Now look at the time on the clock.


Stop using the word dirty. Unfortunate...maybe. But dirty? Not a chance.

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Old
11-09-2008, 11:40 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
I dont want to debate for hours so I made this. Kostopoulos is not to blame in this...plain and simple.

Part 1.
-Kostopoulos follows the player at an angle so that when he turns in the corner he'll be lined up.
-Notice no strides just a glide by Kostopoulos.
-Van Ryn grabs the puck and as expected starts turning to head behind the net. At that point we see Kosto's side and Van Ryn's back and it looks like he's just about to get perpendicular with Kosto.
-Kostopoulos starts his weight transfer in image #5. There is nothing that can change this at this point.
-You'll notice on image #6 that Van Ryn starts to turn back the other way(look at his left skate).




Part 2.
- Van Ryn literally turns his back to Kostopoulos.
- Kostopoulos has already done his weight transfer and cant do anyting.
(9 and 10 should be inverted)



Now look at the time on the clock.
Yep 1 second to react to Van Ryn turning around and putting his back to the play. Habs fans crying about him? Boohoo, it's hockey injuries and plays like this happen. Too bad for Van Ryn maybe he'll take the hit next time.

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Old
11-09-2008, 11:42 AM
  #116
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Pretty hard to argue that, znk.

Yep 1 second to react to Van Ryn turning around and putting his back to the play. Habs fans crying about him? Boohoo, it's hockey injuries and plays like this happen. Too bad for Van Ryn maybe he'll take the hit next time.

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Old
11-09-2008, 11:44 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenacious C View Post
yep...kind of a result of various little things that BOTH players shouldnt of done.


I find it kind of funny that Van Ryn had to stop to be able to clear the puck the other way
I kinda have to disagree. If Van Ryn had played it normal this is what would have happened. Kostopoulos was just playing the game that keeps him in the NHL.

for some reason looks like I forgot how to embed or something...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytrARy0a0_c

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Old
11-09-2008, 11:55 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
I dont want to debate for hours so I made this. Kostopoulos is not to blame in this...plain and simple.

Part 1.
-Kostopoulos follows the player at an angle so that when he turns in the corner he'll be lined up.
-Notice no strides just a glide by Kostopoulos.
-Van Ryn grabs the puck and as expected starts turning to head behind the net. At that point we see Kosto's side and Van Ryn's back and it looks like he's just about to get perpendicular with Kosto.
-Kostopoulos starts his weight transfer in image #5. There is nothing that can change this at this point.
-You'll notice on image #6 that Van Ryn starts to turn back the other way(look at his left skate).




Part 2.
- Van Ryn literally turns his back to Kostopoulos.
- Kostopoulos has already done his weight transfer and cant do anyting.
(9 and 10 should be inverted)



Now look at the time on the clock.


Stop using the word dirty. Unfortunate...maybe. But dirty? Not a chance.
Excellent post - perhaps you could also post it on the main board, where rabid posters are calling for K's head.

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Old
11-09-2008, 11:57 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Santana View Post
Call me an ******* or whatever, but I absolutely love hits like that. Steve Downie became one of my favorite players because of his hit on McAmmond last season.
You love seeing players get their lives destroyed because of a hit?
So did you love the Bergeron hit, and the fact that he had to live through pain for a 4-5 months? He couldn't walk more than fifty feet, and when he did, he got a headache and felt sick. You like that stuff?

Wow.....

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Old
11-09-2008, 12:05 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
It must have been weird sarcasm cause I dont think anyone is stupid enough to actually think that....at least I hope.
It's Santana. I strongly doubt it was sarcasm.

BTW, I have a hypothetical question for Habs fans (don't bash me):

If it was Antropov who hit Markov (same exact situation), would you guys blame Markov for being hit? Please answer truthfully.....

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Old
11-09-2008, 12:08 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmef8vtec View Post
I think Van Ryn is an idiot on this one, just as stupid as A kost was. He sees Kostopoulos coming and insted of protecting the puck and taking the hit, he fakes right lowers is body and goes left, Im sorry, not that I like he got injured but he sort of asked for it.
I agree. Znk post explain it very well with the pictures in slow mo.

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Old
11-09-2008, 12:11 PM
  #122
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Well, I'm going over the video again and again and again. I can tell Kostopoulos was shaken by that hit. It was pretty clear that he didn't mean to hit Van Ryn from behind.

As Kostopoulos is skating away (I'm hard of hearing so I can read lips), he says to the referee "I'm sorry". I don't think there was any malicious intent behind the hit. That being said, there's no place in the game for players that don't filter legitimate hits from bad ones. Kostopoulos had the opportunity to move to Van Ryn's right side by transferring his weight on one skate. It's not that hard to do, especially since he knew he didn't stand a chance on that play.

Kostopoulos has to be suspended, even if it wasn't a hit with malicious intent. Sorry guys, but legitimizing why Kostopoulos shouldn't be suspended is basically paddling on one side of the boat.

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Old
11-09-2008, 12:13 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
...
Great analysis, znk. My dad was looking for footage, as well, because he thought the same thing you did, but he's lazy and retired and gave up pretty quickly.

Nice analysis, though. Doesn't seem to be getting through on the main board, though.

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Old
11-09-2008, 12:15 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Rattlehead View Post
It's Santana. I strongly doubt it was sarcasm.

BTW, I have a hypothetical question for Habs fans (don't bash me):

If it was Antropov who hit Markov (same exact situation), would you guys blame Markov for being hit? Please answer truthfully.....
You have to go back to the hit on Kostitsyn. When some of us tried to point out a player cant expose him self like Kostitsyn did only a few agreed.

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Old
11-09-2008, 12:17 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Rattlehead View Post
It's Santana. I strongly doubt it was sarcasm.

BTW, I have a hypothetical question for Habs fans (don't bash me):

If it was Antropov who hit Markov (same exact situation), would you guys blame Markov for being hit? Please answer truthfully.....
Fair question, however in this comparison Markov is all-star and possibly the team's MVP. Van Ryn is a journeyman. Rage is proportional to the impact to the team.

I doubt either player intended that collision to happen as it did, but Van Ryn clearly was drawing the hit. What happened afterwards, as with a hypothetical role reversals is not really relevant.

Besides most fans play both sides of the fence rather comfortably, and can and will support either side of the same coin depending on the jersey being worn. It's not new.

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