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(#17): 11/8/2008 • New York Rangers @ Washington Capitals • 7pm • MSG (HD)

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Old
11-09-2008, 08:58 AM
  #576
I Am Chariot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post

So what's is it that leads to these failures on offense? An inability to shoot? An inability to select good shots? An offensive strategy that doesn't play to the strengths of the roster? Does anyone have a theory?

In the NHL 2008, with the titanium pads these guys wear, players are just unafraid to block shots. Its amazing some nights how many shots get blocked and not just by the Blair Betts of the league. It use to be you PAID for blocking a shot. So much so that in an intense game you eventually thought twice about it and the lanes opened up and stayed open a little longer.

The lanes today are just shut.

Teams need to

a. have elite skill to deke, mind****, twist the opponents defense around to open up lanes and/or create quality chnaces

b. Pass and blast. No holding the puck. Pass it and shoot it at the net very quickly before the lane closes. Look at the goals the Rangers do score. Many of them are just like this


Since the Rangers dont have any elite forwards they should really just be shooting the puck quicker.

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11-09-2008, 09:06 AM
  #577
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Bod, I was thinking more in terms of the opponents who are telegraphing this block from 4, 5 strides away, yet the Ranger player doesn't adjust. I wouldn't think it would take "elite" skill for the Ranger player to pause, then deke or pass, at least ocassionally.

Is it a case of an opponent simply pressuring the Ranger player, at which point they panic and get rid of the puck any way they can? It almost seems like that's whats happening.

I do think you're onto something with you assessment of the lanes being shut though. Too much of this offense is attempted from outside. Is it that the Rangers don't know how to get attempts from closer in, or the strategy doesn't call for them to do so?

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11-09-2008, 10:00 AM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Bod, I was thinking more in terms of the opponents who are telegraphing this block from 4, 5 strides away, yet the Ranger player doesn't adjust. I wouldn't think it would take "elite" skill for the Ranger player to pause, then deke or pass, at least ocassionally.

Is it a case of an opponent simply pressuring the Ranger player, at which point they panic and get rid of the puck any way they can? It almost seems like that's whats happening.

I do think you're onto something with you assessment of the lanes being shut though. Too much of this offense is attempted from outside. Is it that the Rangers don't know how to get attempts from closer in, or the strategy doesn't call for them to do so?
Well they definitely don't cut to the net off the wing. They all seem to be waiting for someone else to get there most nights. You can see Dubi at least trying, and Zherdev. Watching Naslund always take that little drift into the cushy safe periphery is frustrating. Theres no Glen Anderson on this team

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11-09-2008, 10:12 AM
  #579
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After Henry saved us from a blow out in the 1st we definitely played much better. Damn we have to hit the net and get some better shots though! Every shot on goal seems like an easy save. Also, it's obvious this team struggles against bigger more physical teams. It's frustrating to watch.

I think I've had it with Dawes and Prucha. I want the guys to do well, but it just aint working.

Give Korps a try again?

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11-09-2008, 12:22 PM
  #580
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Its frustrating to watch Dawes, i didnt really expect prucha to do much anyway. But i was expecting 20 goals from dawes this year. Its wierd he gets scoring chances he just cant bury them. Kind of like Prucha.

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11-09-2008, 12:24 PM
  #581
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A lot of the issue with the power play, going on the idea of shooting lanes, and their unavailability to the rangers is that they keep the puck movement to the perimeter. there are constantly passes parallel to the blue line up top, and the occasional pass down low. in most scenarios that pass down low is followed up by another up top, and here we go again. The lack of down-low passing, and passing across allows the defense to remain passive and stationary in a box (as washington did a lot lastnight) and just play the lanes. The Rangers need to put more guys in the middle, and create space to make passes from side-to-side, which would force defenders to move, and would open up lanes all over the place.

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11-09-2008, 12:31 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by BklyNYR4Life View Post
A lot of the issue with the power play, going on the idea of shooting lanes, and their unavailability to the rangers is that they keep the puck movement to the perimeter. there are constantly passes parallel to the blue line up top, and the occasional pass down low. in most scenarios that pass down low is followed up by another up top, and here we go again. The lack of down-low passing, and passing across allows the defense to remain passive and stationary in a box (as washington did a lot lastnight) and just play the lanes. The Rangers need to put more guys in the middle, and create space to make passes from side-to-side, which would force defenders to move, and would open up lanes all over the place.
Its so obvious thats the scouting on the Rangers too. Every team presses the point men because they know the percentages are in their favor because the Rangers dont have the elite skill or will to anything else.

Renny has said they've told the players not to do this and they do it anyway.

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11-09-2008, 01:00 PM
  #583
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I would like to see the point men shift the PKers by sliding off to the sides more, then either letting someone tee it up at the top, or just shooting from there. One of those lanes has to be open, the important thing is that whichever happens has to happen quickly. Rozy needs to realize that he can't stop the puck, wind up, then fire. He has to be ready to one-time it as soon as it gets to him.

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11-09-2008, 01:08 PM
  #584
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It seems so simple, but they jsut cant execute. They saw what worked in the game previous. pass and quick shot. You cant hold the puck at the point and hope something opens up. The other teams pressure the point because they know we cant do anything down low. They gotta make some CROSS-ICE passes and SHOOT. not this point to point to down low...back to the point 45 second passing drill.

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11-09-2008, 02:12 PM
  #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
In the NHL 2008, with the titanium pads these guys wear, players are just unafraid to block shots. Its amazing some nights how many shots get blocked and not just by the Blair Betts of the league. It use to be you PAID for blocking a shot. So much so that in an intense game you eventually thought twice about it and the lanes opened up and stayed open a little longer.

The lanes today are just shut.

Teams need to

a. have elite skill to deke, mind****, twist the opponents defense around to open up lanes and/or create quality chnaces

b. Pass and blast. No holding the puck. Pass it and shoot it at the net very quickly before the lane closes. Look at the goals the Rangers do score. Many of them are just like this


Since the Rangers dont have any elite forwards they should really just be shooting the puck quicker.

I completely agree with your assessment. I'm not sure if it was the game against Tampa Bay or against Toronto but I remember Zherdev received a pass in the slot, about 10 feet in front of the goalie and there were two D-men all over him. I remember him just looking up and holding the puck and holding the puck in the hope that the D-men would skate by him or he could find a clean opening to shoot through. I remember thinking that it was one of the few times I've seen a Ranger forward make a purposeful, concentrated effort to get a shot AROUND a defender instead of just shooting straight at the D-man and hoping it somehow permeates his body.

You either have to shoot quickly, right off the pass, or if that window closes you have to really make an effort to get that shot on net and not have it blocked.

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11-09-2008, 02:40 PM
  #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
Its so obvious thats the scouting on the Rangers too. Every team presses the point men because they know the percentages are in their favor because the Rangers dont have the elite skill or will to anything else.

Renny has said they've told the players not to do this and they do it anyway.
I think it's a matter of will, and so desperately sticking to a plan. the knock on the PP in prior years has been the lack of presence in front of the net. so far this season, there is always a player, usually either Drury or Voros parked right at the top of the crease. this would be good, if in theory shots were getting through. But since they're not, it's taking away a possible option for passing the puck, and making the PP easier to defend against. Even when the passes do get down low, the body immediately in front almost impedes our potential opportunities. As long as the PP stays so committed to parking a man in front, and in theory taking shots from the point, the PP will continue to not work. outside of Voros, and to some extent Drury, the players occupying the PP aren't built to play that sort of system. Gomez, Zherdev, Naslund, Dubinsky, Callahan (I know, not a PP regular, but has anyone recently really done any better than him?) do better in a scenario where players are constantly moving. it's not a matter of not having the talent, or not having the right game plan, it's trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

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11-09-2008, 02:42 PM
  #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
This team lacks heart sometimes.
I think that the "heart" factor went to Dallas.
Quote:
Our PP is STILL firing blanks and their has to be some coaching accountability with that. I think our coaching staff feels a little too comfortable in their status. Loyalty is good, but no one should ever feel too safe. Especially when they continue to underachieve.
It's been how many years since Renney has taken the reins? And, aside from one year when Jagr shot the puck at all time, the PP has been simply atrocious. Really, why should Renney not feel safe? We have said for a long time that he is not going anywhere while Sather as at the helm. SPecial teams is ALL coaching. In Renney's time, the PK has been great and the PP just the opposite. After the dark 7 years, I am fine with the "defense-first" approach, however that has nothing to do with the play when you are a man up.
Quote:
Rozy had two years where he played beyond his ability and the last two years are what he really is. A second pairing defenseman who has too many up's and down's to be anything more than that. Forget about Redden, I'm more concerned with that over the next 3 years. Especially when we pay/play/and expect him to be more.
Rozsival's moment in the sun has come and gone. He simply cannot be allowed to man the point on the PP anymore. But Renney is stuborn and refuses to see how his plan is not working. Once again, we are back to him not being able to see past his X's & O's on the board. Signing him to a $20m deal was an incredible lack of judgement in today's cap world. Him and Redden will be a financial albatross that this team may not be able to carry.

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11-09-2008, 02:47 PM
  #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
The most glorious scoring chances are CONSISTENTLY:
  • ripped wide.
  • shot into the body of a opponent who came all the way across the ice to throw a block
  • passed to someone with zero chance of doing something with it

So what's is it that leads to these failures on offense? An inability to shoot? An inability to select good shots? An offensive strategy that doesn't play to the strengths of the roster? Does anyone have a theory?
The overpassing and missing of the net has been a hallmark for the past 4 years. At some point, one needs to look at the way the team is being coached. These issues, along with not putting players into the best chance for success and not making the right combinations, has been an ongoing problem. The names on the back of the jersey's change, but the issues remain the same.

A good amount of shots and no goals on a consistent basis is an indicator of not getting your nose dirty in front of the net. No one is getting rebounds and no one wants to go to war in front, aside from Voros and Drury.

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11-09-2008, 08:01 PM
  #589
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On Redden:

He'll find his nitch eventually. You can't expect the guy to come into his first year in NY after spending his entire career with Ottawa and just be 100% in the grove and comfortable and dominant. I mean sheesh. it's been 16 games. It's also time to stop expecting the world from these players because of their contracts. Bobby Holik was a 3rd line center. Just because Sather decided to pay him 9 mill a year didnt mean God blessed him with the talent to score 50 goals. Same with Redden and Gomez and Drury. These players have always given what they've given. Market value/ our GMs poor decision as to which free agents to target led to their contracts. It's not like their agents are going to say "5 years 50 million? no thanks. see my client is a playmaker not an elite goal scorer so we're looking for a lot less" Redden is a solid top 4. Hes not Lidstrom, he's not Phaneuff.


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11-09-2008, 08:10 PM
  #590
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Originally Posted by JamesG1221 View Post
On Redden:

He'll find his nitch eventually. You can't expect the guy to come into his first year in NY after spending his entire career with Ottawa and just be 100% in the grove and comfortable and dominant. I mean sheesh. it's been 16 games. It's also time to stop expecting the world from these players because of their contracts. Bobby Holik was a 3rd line center. Just because Sather decided to pay him 9 mill a year didnt mean God blessed him with the talent to score 50 goals. Same with Redden and Gomez and Drury. These players have always given what they've given. Market value/ our GMs poor decision as to which free agents to target led to their contracts. It's not like their agents are going to say "5 years 50 million? no thanks. see my client is a playmaker not an elite goal scorer so we're looking for a lot less" Redden is a solid top 4. Hes not Lidstrom, he's not Phaneuff.
Yeah but the problem is that he's not even Mara, Staal, or Girardi.

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11-09-2008, 08:37 PM
  #591
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I just watched a recording of this game and I found it pretty exciting.
A couple of fluke goals against and some horrible reffing against.
We play this game 10 times and we'll probably win 9, comfortably.
Relax, whiners! **** happens, this is hockey, you win some and you lose some.
This was just a game where the home team got some breaks.

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11-09-2008, 08:47 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by NickyZ View Post
Yeah but the problem is that he's not even Mara, Staal, or Girardi.






lol touche. but i was speaking more in terms of contracts:talent ratio..

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