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Old
11-10-2008, 10:13 AM
  #201
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lets all agree here

Bruins suck

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11-10-2008, 10:52 AM
  #202
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lets all agree here

Bruins suck
I got your back.

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11-10-2008, 10:59 AM
  #203
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Surprised but not surprised....

From what I know of Kosto, he is one of the classiest individuals in the game and when my wife (God Bless her, she was watching HNIC and taping it for me while I was covering the Bruins-Sabres), called me going ballistic and saying she "couldn't wait until Lucic destroyed some Habs Thursday", I didn't know what had come over her. But after watching the replay of that game this morning, I can see clearly now!

The Habs actions in that game are exactly what I was referring to after the Weight on Sutter hit in a recent column. By NO MEANS, is this hit similar, but it's the ACTIONS and MENTALITY that has taken over this league that disgusts me! Even relatively clean players seem to have no regard for the safety of their peers and at what point does this stop? Paralysis? Death?

This stuff isn't what the majority of us seem to want. What we want is for players to be able to police themselves with CLEAN hits and fighting, so this crap doesn't happen anymore!

Please don't take this as a Habs-Bruins angle here, as I've received my fair share of bashing on the B's boards and from friends here in Boston for the objectivity I use in this rivalry and also for my affection for Habs fans and the city of Montreal. But honestly, there's nothing to be proud about if you're a Habs fan on how the team handled themselves Saturday night. They unraveled and lost their composure and discipline, as well as at times, respect for the game!

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11-10-2008, 11:09 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Bad example Habs, as Weight's hit on Sutter was all over the sports papers/news.
Yet there was no suspension was there?

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11-10-2008, 11:16 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 View Post
...
They unraveled and lost their composure and discipline, as well as at times, respect for the game!
Lost respect for the game? Gimme a break. No reason to get overly dramatic, you know.

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11-10-2008, 11:19 AM
  #206
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You'll have plenty have breaks..,,.

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Lost respect for the game? Gimme a break. No reason to get overly dramatic, you know.
Broken bones, necks, etc. if this crap doesn't stop!

As for no suspension on Weight, was clean hit (under the current rules), but still, doesn't mean it was right!

Players either need to realize their size, speed and size of equipment.

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Old
11-10-2008, 11:27 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
And what you've demonstrated, brillantly to say the least, prooves exactly my point that he has to be blame. When you have to dissect a sequence that is going full blast where in a matter of 1 second the guy is either on his side or with his back facing you....you don't go for the thunderous hit. That's all about the respect that should be in order in this league.

The only proof that this demonstration says is that Kostopoulos is not a dirty player and that he never wanted to send Van Ryn in the hospital....but to say that he's not to blame? If for some Van Ryn decided to put himself in a position to be hit, Kosto decided to put himself in a position to hit somebody illegally....

Anyway, we can go on for hours, it just that some people will need to understand that it cannot be black or white but in the end, if people try to avoid players that could end up being in vulnerable positions, we will have the respect we hope players would give to each other....
Well I was happy to hear Bob McKenzie this morning say exactly what I said and say he viewed the play frame by frame.

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Old
11-10-2008, 11:38 AM
  #208
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Rule 42 - Boarding

42.1 Boarding – A boarding penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who checks an opponent in such a manner that causes the opponent to be thrown violently in the boards. The severity of the penalty, based upon the degree of violence of the impact with the boards, shall be at the discretion of the Referee.

There is an enormous amount of judgment involved in the application of this rule by the Referees. The onus is on the player (or goalkeeper) applying the check to ensure his opponent is not in a vulnerable position and if so, he must avoid the contact. However, there is also a responsibility on the player with the puck to avoid placing himself in a dangerous and vulnerable position. This balance must be considered by the Referees when applying this rule.

Any unnecessary contact with a player playing the puck on an obvious “icing” or “off-side” play which results in that player being knocked into the boards is “boarding” and must be penalized as such. In other instances where there is no contact with the boards, it should be treated as “charging.”

42.2 Minor Penalty – The Referee, at his discretion, may assess a minor penalty, based on the degree of violence of the impact with the boards, to a player or goalkeeper guilty of boarding an opponent.

42.3 Major Penalty – The Referee, at his discretion, may assess a major penalty, based on the degree of violence of the impact with the boards, to a player or goalkeeper guilty of boarding an opponent (see 42.5).

42.4 Match Penalty – The Referee, at his discretion, may assess a match penalty if, in his judgment, the player or goalkeeper attempted to or deliberately injured his opponent by boarding.

42.5 Game Misconduct Penalty - When a major penalty is imposed under this rule for a foul resulting in an injury to the face or head of an opponent, a game misconduct shall be imposed.

42.6 Fines and Suspensions - Any player or goalkeeper who incurs a total of two (2) game misconducts under Rule 42 and/or Rule 44, in either Regular season or Play-offs, shall be suspended automatically for the next game of his team. For each subsequent game misconduct penalty the automatic suspension shall be increased by one game.

When a major penalty is imposed under this rule, an automatic fine of one hundred dollars ($100) shall be imposed.

If deemed appropriate, supplementary discipline can be applied by the Commissioner at his discretion (refer to Rule 29).


It seems, as per the NHL rule book there are responsibilities on both sides but the severity of the penalty should be based upon the degree of violence of the impact with the boards and it shall be at the discretion of the referee. Van Ryn didn't do much to protect himself but the impact was violent and Kosto didn't let up at all and even seems to have left his feet a bit.

http://www.rds.ca/video/visionneuse.html?video=17144

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Old
11-10-2008, 11:39 AM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
I dont want to debate for hours so I made this. Kostopoulos is not to blame in this...plain and simple.

Part 1.
-Kostopoulos follows the player at an angle so that when he turns in the corner he'll be lined up.
-Notice no strides just a glide by Kostopoulos.
-Van Ryn grabs the puck and as expected starts turning to head behind the net. At that point we see Kosto's side and Van Ryn's back and it looks like he's just about to get perpendicular with Kosto.
-Kostopoulos starts his weight transfer in image #5. There is nothing that can change this at this point.
-You'll notice on image #6 that Van Ryn starts to turn back the other way(look at his left skate).




Part 2.
- Van Ryn literally turns his back to Kostopoulos.
- Kostopoulos has already done his weight transfer and cant do anyting.
(9 and 10 should be inverted)



Now look at the time on the clock.


Stop using the word dirty. Unfortunate...maybe. But dirty? Not a chance.
Exactly. Funny how the self-righteous do their predictable wailing, howling, moaning routines without actually taking the time to objectively assess the situation and facts.

This was an accident, that's all. To start screaming that the Habs (TK) besmirched the integrity of the game because of an accidental hit causing an accidental injury....is itself besmirching the integrity of the game. Hypocritical, lynching mentality at it's best....or worst, depending how you look at it.

Now, the butt-end by that punk Gabrovski...that is what should be talked about being a black eye in that game and of the game. That was CLEARLY intent to injure.

F, I can't stand the drama-queen, self-righteous blabbering.

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Old
11-10-2008, 11:42 AM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I really really hope that people who don't see any problem with the Kosto hit don't see any problem with the Sauer hit on Kosty. If so, well, I don't agree but you are fair as you see the physical play as being part of the game and are ready to see some accidents happen.
I don't remember looking at that one closely enough, but my general impression was indeed that it was part of the game, anyway. I don't know that they're very comparable, though. Kostitsyn should have been looking. Van Ryn shouldn't have put himself in that position. It's fair for the guys who hit them to get penalties, but hits - and accidents where a hit ends up being worse than intended - those are part of the game and you can't go around suspending players based on that.

At the NHL level, I'd leave it in the hands of the players. If they decide they care, then they can change the game in various ways to get themselves more protection. If they don't care, then I enjoy the physicality of the games.

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Old
11-10-2008, 11:43 AM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 View Post
From what I know of Kosto, he is one of the classiest individuals in the game and when my wife (God Bless her, she was watching HNIC and taping it for me while I was covering the Bruins-Sabres), called me going ballistic and saying she "couldn't wait until Lucic destroyed some Habs Thursday", I didn't know what had come over her. But after watching the replay of that game this morning, I can see clearly now!

The Habs actions in that game are exactly what I was referring to after the Weight on Sutter hit in a recent column. By NO MEANS, is this hit similar, but it's the ACTIONS and MENTALITY that has taken over this league that disgusts me! Even relatively clean players seem to have no regard for the safety of their peers and at what point does this stop? Paralysis? Death?

This stuff isn't what the majority of us seem to want. What we want is for players to be able to police themselves with CLEAN hits and fighting, so this crap doesn't happen anymore!

Please don't take this as a Habs-Bruins angle here, as I've received my fair share of bashing on the B's boards and from friends here in Boston for the objectivity I use in this rivalry and also for my affection for Habs fans and the city of Montreal. But honestly, there's nothing to be proud about if you're a Habs fan on how the team handled themselves Saturday night. They unraveled and lost their composure and discipline, as well as at times, respect for the game!
Been a drama queen lately, have you even watched ONE leafs game this year, you might have noticed a guy named Hollweg. You have been hanging around Tony M too long.

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Old
11-10-2008, 11:45 AM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 View Post
From what I know of Kosto, he is one of the classiest individuals in the game and when my wife (God Bless her, she was watching HNIC and taping it for me while I was covering the Bruins-Sabres), called me going ballistic and saying she "couldn't wait until Lucic destroyed some Habs Thursday", I didn't know what had come over her. But after watching the replay of that game this morning, I can see clearly now!

The Habs actions in that game are exactly what I was referring to after the Weight on Sutter hit in a recent column. By NO MEANS, is this hit similar, but it's the ACTIONS and MENTALITY that has taken over this league that disgusts me! Even relatively clean players seem to have no regard for the safety of their peers and at what point does this stop? Paralysis? Death?

This stuff isn't what the majority of us seem to want. What we want is for players to be able to police themselves with CLEAN hits and fighting, so this crap doesn't happen anymore!

Please don't take this as a Habs-Bruins angle here, as I've received my fair share of bashing on the B's boards and from friends here in Boston for the objectivity I use in this rivalry and also for my affection for Habs fans and the city of Montreal. But honestly, there's nothing to be proud about if you're a Habs fan on how the team handled themselves Saturday night. They unraveled and lost their composure and discipline, as well as at times, respect for the game!
Now i see where you were going with this.

But you did say on the bruins board that it was "classless".
This post is a bit better put together.

I do agree they unraveled, but I dont think they were as dirty as some may say. The slash on Grabo was exagerated and the Kostisyn "slew foot" that some say, was just the stick in the wrong position on the forecheck, no malentent on this one.

Get your wife some habs jammies for x-mas.

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Old
11-10-2008, 11:47 AM
  #213
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Wow great job ZNK, look at photo 6 in set 2 this tells the whole story. His shoulders were turned towards TK and TK started his hitting motion, *&^* him, next time he will not turn his back to the play.

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11-10-2008, 11:51 AM
  #214
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Hollweg...

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Originally Posted by CabbageLegs View Post
Been a drama queen lately, have you even watched ONE leafs game this year, you might have noticed a guy named Hollweg. You have been hanging around Tony M too long.
Is a classless, dumb punk. Tom K is not. Just a lack of judgment here. I actually don't necessarily blame just the players though. Most of these are within the rulebook.

Van Ryn did in fact put himself in a awkward position, but their needs to be a change in overall mindset that now is, "Well, if he's going to put himself in that position, then I need to punish him for it."

I love fighting, I love hitting, but it's the lack of respect that gets me. If there was more of these two things, that respect comes back.

As for Grabovski, he is a cheap little *****!

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11-10-2008, 11:52 AM
  #215
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How was Kostitsyn's actions not classless?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
Now i see where you were going with this.

But you did say on the bruins board that it was "classless".
This post is a bit better put together.

I do agree they unraveled, but I dont think they were as dirty as some may say. The slash on Grabo was exagerated and the Kostisyn "slew foot" that some say, was just the stick in the wrong position on the forecheck, no malentent on this one.

Get your wife some habs jammies for x-mas.
I'd suspend him before Tom K.!

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11-10-2008, 12:00 PM
  #216
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Van Ryn was going to skate behind the net, he knew Kostopolous was coming so he tried to stop to avoid the check and go the other way. Bad move. Unfortunate for him, but there was absolutely nothing Kosto could do to prevent it. No suspension.

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11-10-2008, 12:05 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 View Post
I'd suspend him before Tom K.!
What would you suspend him for? For looking at Grabs the wrong way?

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Old
11-10-2008, 12:07 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 View Post
I'd suspend him before Tom K.!
I just dont see what your seeing? Are you talking about the play where his stick blade went under the d-man's skate? On the forecheck?

Do you believe it was that blatent and he wanted to injure him?

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11-10-2008, 12:09 PM
  #219
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Is a classless, dumb punk. Tom K is not. Just a lack of judgment here. I actually don't necessarily blame just the players though. Most of these are within the rulebook.

Van Ryn did in fact put himself in a awkward position, but their needs to be a change in overall mindset that now is, "Well, if he's going to put himself in that position, then I need to punish him for it."

I love fighting, I love hitting, but it's the lack of respect that gets me. If there was more of these two things, that respect comes back.

As for Grabovski, he is a cheap little *****!
For the most part, hitting was what a d man did to a forward to take him out of the play. Now, the highest % of hits are usually forwards advancing like missiles making d men pay. I think that there are a couple of issues at play here. The way that players , first man in, controls the puck, has changed, players corral the puck without securing a protective body position, but otoh, the first forechecker goes for the big hit, to do as much damage as possible. Every team has about 6-7 guys who'll take this shot.

I've noticed the last few game sthat Higgins hits the way players used to. He takes out forwards along the boards, cutting off their rush, or he confronts d men, in an effort to remove the puck. He's taken criticism on these boards for not showing enough grit, mainly because he doesn't take the killshot, he tries for a hockey play.

I've only heard good things about TK, th eguy, but if you look at it how he views his job, the difference between making 75K in the A and 750 in the NHL is his willingness to be noticed physically. More and more players are willing to do more to secure a place in the league. The stakes are pretty high.

I agree to a degree in terms of respect, but I don't have any solutions. It would have to, in th eend, be an NHLPA initiative. Stephane Quintal, years ago, tried to be heard after he felt he was needelessly low bridged by Brind'Amour, which he was, but he couldn't get anyone to acknowledge that he had an issue. I don't think suspensions or fines will change much, players will do what they feel they have to do.

Murph, as to your wife, I'll fight her, I can take her.

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11-10-2008, 12:09 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
I just dont see what your seeing? Are you talking about the play where his stick blade went under the d-man's skate? On the forecheck?

Do you believe it was that blatent and he wanted to injure him?
I believe he was talking abut PunkGrabo.

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11-10-2008, 12:11 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
For the most part, hitting was what a d man did to a forward to take him out of the play. Now, the highest % of hits are usually forwards advancing like missiles making d men pay. I think that there are a couple of issues at play here. The way that players , first man in, controls the puck, has changed, players corral the puck without securing a protective body position, but otoh, the first forechecker goes for the big hit, to do as much damage as possible. Every team has about 6-7 guys who'll take this shot.

I've noticed the last few game sthat Higgins hits the way players used to. He takes out forwards along the boards, cutting off their rush, or he confronts d men, in an effort to remove the puck. He's taken criticism on these boards for not showing enough grit, mainly because he doesn't take the killshot, he tries for a hockey play.

I've only heard good things about TK, th eguy, but if you look at it how he views his job, the difference between making 75K in the A and 750 in the NHL is his willingness to be noticed physically. More and more players are willing to do more to secure a place in the league. The stakes are pretty high.

I agree to a degree in terms of respect, but I don't have any solutions. It would have to, in th eend, be an NHLPA initiative. Stephane Quintal, years ago, tried to be heard after he felt he was needelessly low bridged by Brind'Amour, which he was, but he couldn't get anyone to acknowledge that he had an issue. I don't think suspensions or fines will change much, players will do what they feel they have to do.

Murph, as to your wife, I'll fight her, I can take her.

I thought we already had this discussion, your back remember ?

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11-10-2008, 12:12 PM
  #222
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Yes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
I just dont see what your seeing? Are you talking about the play where his stick blade went under the d-man's skate? On the forecheck?

Do you believe it was that blatent and he wanted to injure him?
He was playing dirty throughout the game in my eyes.

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11-10-2008, 12:13 PM
  #223
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I wouldn't be so sure!

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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
For the most part, hitting was what a d man did to a forward to take him out of the play. Now, the highest % of hits are usually forwards advancing like missiles making d men pay. I think that there are a couple of issues at play here. The way that players , first man in, controls the puck, has changed, players corral the puck without securing a protective body position, but otoh, the first forechecker goes for the big hit, to do as much damage as possible. Every team has about 6-7 guys who'll take this shot.

I've noticed the last few game sthat Higgins hits the way players used to. He takes out forwards along the boards, cutting off their rush, or he confronts d men, in an effort to remove the puck. He's taken criticism on these boards for not showing enough grit, mainly because he doesn't take the killshot, he tries for a hockey play.

I've only heard good things about TK, th eguy, but if you look at it how he views his job, the difference between making 75K in the A and 750 in the NHL is his willingness to be noticed physically. More and more players are willing to do more to secure a place in the league. The stakes are pretty high.

I agree to a degree in terms of respect, but I don't have any solutions. It would have to, in th eend, be an NHLPA initiative. Stephane Quintal, years ago, tried to be heard after he felt he was needelessly low bridged by Brind'Amour, which he was, but he couldn't get anyone to acknowledge that he had an issue. I don't think suspensions or fines will change much, players will do what they feel they have to do.

Murph, as to your wife, I'll fight her, I can take her.
She's a feisty Italian woman!

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11-10-2008, 12:14 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by CabbageLegs View Post
I thought we already had this discussion, your back remember ?
I have an elaborate network of trusses. Shut up, if the end result is me wrestling with Murph's wife, good will have come of all this.

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11-10-2008, 12:15 PM
  #225
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Btw....

Where was that so-called presence of Laraque with Grabovski? That guy felt like he could do anything out there!

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