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GDT #13 -- Lightning at Flyers -- November 8, 2008 -- 7:00 PM (ET)

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Old
11-09-2008, 05:10 PM
  #601
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Did Lemieux have a 6-year contract though?
Come on you know theres inflation of real dollars and of player values. He doesnt have a NTC so if we ever need to trade him we can, and the buyers will be ready

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11-09-2008, 05:13 PM
  #602
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Did anyone notice Carter take a puck off his leg last night and jump around a bit, it looked like it hurt a lot, but he kept playing. I hope he is feeling better.

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11-09-2008, 05:41 PM
  #603
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
So because DeAngelo Hall got overpaid by the Raiders, every No.2 CB in the NFL should now make 8 million a year?
That's how these things work, yes. It's why GMs are furious when teams give out stupid contracts. Especially in sports with very specific contract formulas for arbitration and the like.

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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
It wasn't point to point, it was from behind the net, it was basically...
So, you want a guy setting up a screen while the puck is behind the net? When the puck moves quickly it's tough to get a screen set up. When the puck is behind the net, you want your forward turned around with his stick on the ice...not trying to stand in front of the goalie where he can't receive a pass...

Hartnell is EASILY the best player on this team at setting up screens, and he has absolutely zero qualms getting there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Did Lemieux have a 6-year contract though?
Are you really complaining about a guy having a set salary cap number (which is reasonable) during the prime years of his career? Gimme a break...

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11-09-2008, 05:44 PM
  #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Come on you know theres inflation of real dollars and of player values. He doesnt have a NTC so if we ever need to trade him we can, and the buyers will be ready
Possibly in a couple of years, not at the monent though. I'm well aware of the swelling of market value, but I'm pretty sure Claude Lemieux never had a contract with the Devils or even the Avalanche that held the team back in anyway. He was the best of the best of what he did. You can't say the same about Harntnell, and the Devils had a slight advantage, that being they knew how to win, even if it was on a restricted payroll.

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11-09-2008, 05:46 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Possibly in a couple of years, not at the monent though. I'm well aware of the swelling of market value, but I'm pretty sure Claude Lemieux never had a contract with the Devils or even the Avalanche that held the team back in anyway. He was the best of the best of what he did. You can't say the same about Harntnell, and the Devils had a slight advantage, that being they knew how to win, even if it was on a restricted payroll.
Claude Lemieux also played in an era where there were lots of players that did what he did. How many players can you pencil in for 20+ goals, physical play, and some dirtiness right now?

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11-09-2008, 06:00 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Claude Lemieux also played in an era where there were lots of players that did what he did. How many players can you pencil in for 20+ goals, physical play, and some dirtiness right now?
Tom Kostpolous is making $900K and can do all of those things, with less stupid and/or careless mistakes.

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11-09-2008, 06:20 PM
  #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Tom Kostpolous is making $900K and can do all of those things, with less stupid and/or careless mistakes.
Kostopolous has also never scored more than 9 goals or 22 points in a season.

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11-09-2008, 06:53 PM
  #608
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Does anyone else think its weird, Mike Smith rarely freezes the puck?

I find it great he can play the puck as well as he can. But, couldn't not freezing the puck, come back to haunt you. Oppose to freezing the puck?


Last edited by dbr2: 11-09-2008 at 07:02 PM.
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11-09-2008, 07:24 PM
  #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Tom Kostpolous is making $900K and can do all of those things, with less stupid and/or careless mistakes.
Isn't he about to get suspended?

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11-09-2008, 07:48 PM
  #610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Tom Kostpolous is making $900K and can do all of those things, with less stupid and/or careless mistakes.
Epic fail right there.

309gp 33g 52a 85p 395pim
per game averages: .105gpg .168apg 0.275ppg 1.278pimpg

compared to:

529gp 121g 141a 262p 720pim
per game averages: .228gpg 0.267apg 0.495ppg 1.36pimpg

So...comparable physically, but Hartnell is twice the offensive player to this point.

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11-09-2008, 07:49 PM
  #611
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Originally Posted by dbr2 View Post
Does anyone else think its weird, Mike Smith rarely freezes the puck?

I find it great he can play the puck as well as he can. But, couldn't not freezing the puck, come back to haunt you. Oppose to freezing the puck?
Why would you ever want to have defensive zone draws against...? There's a reason they made the rule this year for PPs to always start in the offensive zone.

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11-09-2008, 08:18 PM
  #612
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It's not just one player (yes, some players on this team play below expectations) it’s everyone on this team. Every single player screws up in one way or the other, even veterans.

Homer did everything in his power to help this coaching staff.

Flyers have a relatively easy schedule, now is a perfect time to turn things around. It is up to Stevens and Berube to fix it. imo Homer did his best to help our team.

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11-10-2008, 11:23 AM
  #613
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So many of you ***** about Kukkonen over and over but he just blocked the shot that gave Hartnell the breakaway which led to the powerplay. He's doing a good job, he's not a first pairing defenceman but he blocks a ton of shots.
agreed...not to mention he sits for 10 games and then plays 1 and if he doesn't have an awesome game gets put in the dog house.

besides carle (who is quite good- not downie-trade worthy but good), we have traded for d-men that are of similar caliber to kukks (some even worse...ahem alberts) but stevens won't let kukks develop into the d-man he should be...instead stevens plays randy jones until he is average...if every decent d-man we had was given the same patience that jones was given, we would have a ton of average defenseman instead of a bunch of lame ones that we have to package with our young talent to get rid of.

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11-10-2008, 11:46 AM
  #614
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Why the hell is downie so hyped up on these boards. I mean really, we were in trouble in defense. We bring in a good defenseman and lose another who couldn't play for ****. We also lose a forward that would of needed top 6 minutes to be effective. Not going to happen here

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11-10-2008, 12:00 PM
  #615
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Why the hell is downie so hyped up on these boards. I mean really, we were in trouble in defense. We bring in a good defenseman and lose another who couldn't play for ****. We also lose a forward that would of needed top 6 minutes to be effective. Not going to happen here
For starters, Downie should have just been left alone in the AHL...should have been left alone there last season. Should have been left alone this season. Holmgren basically admitted as much following the trade, thus the beginning of people's frustration.

Secondly: No, Downie did not need top 6 minutes to be effective. He would have been perfectly fine in the long run as a 3rd line wing.

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11-10-2008, 12:42 PM
  #616
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Actually, Downie projected as a 3rd line winger. This isn't like we traded someone we drafted in round 1 who we expected to be a superstar. If I recall, it was considered a fairly weak draft and the Flyers went off the board to take Downie.

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11-10-2008, 01:02 PM
  #617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
How many of those 'sandpaper' players get huge, cap-constricting contracts? What was the most Claude Lemieux ever made? Hartnell is the sandpaper, yes, but he doesn't get it done, really, on either end of the ice. He shows effort, but that doesn't mean he plays well. Frankly, I think he's an idiot. We could get the Travis Moen's and Tom Kostopolous' of the world for far less and at least they're smart players.
Tom Kostopolous blows. He is more like Asham then Hartnell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Actually, Downie projected as a 3rd line winger. This isn't like we traded someone we drafted in round 1 who we expected to be a superstar. If I recall, it was considered a fairly weak draft and the Flyers went off the board to take Downie.
yup we went off the board. He was projected to go in the 3rd round that year. I think he was around the 88th-90th best prospect ratings wise in that draft.

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11-10-2008, 01:20 PM
  #618
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We moved down a few times in that draft.

We passed up notables like: Tuukka Rask, selected 21, we originally had the 20 pick.

Ondrej Pavelec who went 41 overall in the 2nd round. We originally owned the 41st pick.

And Paul Stastny went 44.

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11-10-2008, 02:20 PM
  #619
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Why the hell is downie so hyped up on these boards. I mean really, we were in trouble in defense. We bring in a good defenseman and lose another who couldn't play for ****. We also lose a forward that would of needed top 6 minutes to be effective. Not going to happen here
Why? How long did Flyers fans wait for Downie to come to Philly? He wasn't under the right coach (as none of this team is), wasn't ready last year and prob needs a mentor (like many of the unrestrained talent-type players do) to keep him in line and get him going offensively.

Downie is the flyers organization, or what 40 year flyers fans know it to be...and no, i don't mean literally. I mean the grit, being the underdog and overcoming adversity...it's what philly fans live off of. He was our Broadstreet bully and the most anticipated guy we have drafted in years.

My dad has watched the flyers for 40 years and even though he wasn't ooing and ahing at downie in his NHL games, he knew he was young and wanted to see who Downie would become because as he says "that's my kind of player"

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11-10-2008, 02:27 PM
  #620
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Tom Kostopolous is a very good player for what he is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsbergIsOdin View Post
We moved down a few times in that draft.

We passed up notables like: Tuukka Rask, selected 21, we originally had the 20 pick.

Ondrej Pavelec who went 41 overall in the 2nd round. We originally owned the 41st pick.

And Paul Stastny went 44.
All so we could have Denis Gauthier. It was a disaster from the start :

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11-10-2008, 02:37 PM
  #621
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Ugh the Goat trade is still the worst. The 2 seconds we traded for him became Shawn Matthias and Cory Emmerton

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11-10-2008, 02:41 PM
  #622
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Meh, can't win em all.

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11-10-2008, 03:03 PM
  #623
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Tom Kostopolous is a very good player for what he is.
Which isn't close to the player Hartnell is. Can you admit that now, please?

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11-10-2008, 03:14 PM
  #624
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Which isn't close to the player Hartnell is. Can you admit that now, please?
No, because I think Kostopoulos is an overall better player. Just because he doesn't have the numbers doesn't change my opinion. His smarts make up for all the gaffes and asinine penalties Hartnell takes regardless of the numbers.

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11-10-2008, 03:20 PM
  #625
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Which isn't close to the player Hartnell is. Can you admit that now, please?
If I counted right, there were only 4 players in the NHL last season who had 100+ PIM and 20+ goals.

Hartnell 24 goals 159 PIM
Perry 29 goals 108 PIM
Morrow 35 goals 105 PIM
Malone 27 goals 103 PIM

Year before:
Souray 26 goals 135 PIM
Tkachuk 27 goals 126 PIM

(Hartnell had 22 goals and 96 PIM in 64 games.)

We're talking an exceedingly rare combination in the current NHL.

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