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GDT #13 -- Lightning at Flyers -- November 8, 2008 -- 7:00 PM (ET)

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11-10-2008, 04:22 PM
  #626
BringBackStevens
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Ok, Tom Kostopoulos is a better player than Scott Hartnell. I've heard it all now...

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11-10-2008, 04:23 PM
  #627
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Claude Lemieux also played in an era where there were lots of players that did what he did. How many players can you pencil in for 20+ goals, physical play, and some dirtiness right now?
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Tom Kostpolous is making $900K and can do all of those things, with less stupid and/or careless mistakes.
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Which isn't close to the player Hartnell is. Can you admit that now, please?
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No, because I think Kostopoulos is an overall better player. Just because he doesn't have the numbers doesn't change my opinion. His smarts make up for all the gaffes and asinine penalties Hartnell takes regardless of the numbers.
You are equivocating, sadly so. Even if you'd rather have Kostopoulos, you were still wrong to cite him as an example to the question I posed to you.

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11-10-2008, 04:24 PM
  #628
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You're all entitled to your opinion, that's mine. My hate for Hartnell is well documented. If I could I'd buy him out tomorrow. He sucks and is useless. I don't care about the combination of goals and PIMs. It's a rare combination for a reason -- most people aren't that stupid to accumulate such a combination. If you're contributing at a decent offense pace, you're likely not in the penalty box enough to not do it. And he isn't Corey Perry, Brenden Morrow, he might not even be the more-overpaid Ryan Malone. He hasn't done one damn thing all season that was worth the space he takes up on the ice being an idiot and acting like he's king of ****.

I also cited the wrong stat line when I brought up Kostopoulos, but I'd still rather have him because he isn't an ass.

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11-10-2008, 04:28 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
You're all entitled to your opinion, that's mine. My hate for Hartnell is well documented. If I could I'd buy him out tomorrow. He sucks and is useless. I don't care about the combination of goals and PIMs. It's a rare combination for a reason -- most people aren't that stupid to accumulate such a combination. If you're contributing at a decent offense pace, you're likely not in the penalty box enough to not do it. And he isn't Corey Perry, Brenden Morrow, he might not even be the more-overpaid Ryan Malone. He hasn't done one damn thing all season that was worth the space he takes up on the ice being an idiot and acting like he's king of ****.
None of that really changes the fact that citing Kostopoulos as comparable to Hartnell was simply wrong. He's not.

Your opinion is that you don't like Hartnell...that's fine as an opinion. I asked for a 20+ goal scorer, that provides physical play and nastiness...you cited someone who isn't even close to that in response.

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11-10-2008, 04:39 PM
  #630
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I'll take guys like Dustin Brown and Chris Neil (the reformed player), Ian Laperriere, Matt Bradley and Aaron Voros -- all of whom don't have the same offensive numbers (except Brown who is a recent 1st round pick), but also don't rack up the dumb penalties (I don't know if I've ever seen Laperriere take a stupid penalty) yet bring the same intangibles at much more reasonable contracts even if they don't have the scoring. I don't need their scoring.

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11-10-2008, 04:39 PM
  #631
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And there is your reason for not seeing what he brings to the team. Blind hatred for some reason because he probably did something bad once and you are too stubborn to give him credit (similar to you and Sbisa)

Hartnell is consitently our hardest working forward. He doesn't take nights off, and while he isn't the best player on our team he's been overall one of our most effective forwards after Richards and Carter this season

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11-10-2008, 04:45 PM
  #632
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I have no blind hatred for Sbisa, if that's what you've taken from me about Sbisa you should re-read all of my posts about him. I have hatred for how he's being handled. Unnecessary, irresponsible and potentially unforgivable if I'm right.

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11-10-2008, 04:52 PM
  #633
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I know you don't hate Sbisa, but i have noticed quite obviously that once you made your famous definitive statements about him, you are calling him out for literally everything under the sun, most of which i have no clue what you are even referring to.

I don't think Sbisa is the best thing since sliced bread at the moment, but i really don't see many of the things you throw against him game in and game out. To me, it seems like you are trying so hard to find things bad about him that some of it are half truths or just created out of thin air.

The same holds true in some ways to your treatment of Hartnell, IMO

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11-10-2008, 04:55 PM
  #634
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I'm not trying hard to find the flaws in his game because they're rather obvious to me. I wasn't the first one to point out that he routinely gets knocked down by players, if not the same size as him, smaller than him. It's not about being right. I don't care about being right.

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11-10-2008, 05:02 PM
  #635
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Sbisa situation was different. I was completly with GKJ for everything about Sbisa. And still am. Doesnt mean I hate Sbisa.

Hartnell is a very streaky player offensively, and while I still like him, I think going Forward only one of him or Lupul have a spot on this team. Most likely Lupul will be traded because Of Giroux/Nodl/JVR

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11-10-2008, 05:08 PM
  #636
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Ok, whether the Sbisa situation applies or not (i would like to note, that i do not completely disagree with either of you about that situation), i still think that with Hartnell you made your mind up about him at some point for whatever reason and can't see anything else because of pure hatred for him, which I think is pretty unfair.

The fact that you think Kostopolous and Laparierre are better players straight up is enough evidence that you aren't seeing things without bias

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11-10-2008, 05:17 PM
  #637
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
The fact that you think Kostopolous and Laparierre are better players straight up is enough evidence that you aren't seeing things without bias
That's fine. Who doesn't see things through their own vision? Next time we have a Gagne debate I'm sure I'll have some and and thrown at me

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11-10-2008, 06:04 PM
  #638
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Ugh the Goat trade is still the worst. The 2 seconds we traded for him became Shawn Matthias and Cory Emmerton
Then we had to give up another 2nd just to get rid of him.

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11-10-2008, 06:37 PM
  #639
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That's fine. Who doesn't see things through their own vision? Next time we have a Gagne debate I'm sure I'll have some and and thrown at me
Fair enough.

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11-10-2008, 06:56 PM
  #640
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
That's fine. Who doesn't see things through their own vision? Next time we have a Gagne debate I'm sure I'll have some and and thrown at me
Not to bring in another subject, but I never understood why you hated Gags. I remember when we got Prospal you were one of the first people to say we should trade Gags. Not hating on you but like 99% of the people I know that are Flyer's fans love Gags. Just wondering what your reason is.

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11-10-2008, 07:20 PM
  #641
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It's not hate for Gagne either, I've never been a huge fan, but I don't hate him either. Gagne is not a 1st line player on a championship team. He reminds me too much of Lindros without the dirty laundry being aired.

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