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Old
11-11-2008, 04:52 PM
  #51
Mr. Hab
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Originally Posted by mariolemieux66 View Post
Lots of habs fans have been talking aout getting a top 4 dmen and it also seem the consensus is that players like Bouwmeester, Burns, Morris or Ohlund would cost Montreal too many young players.

Andy Sutton can be the solution to some of Montreal deficiencies, like the lack of size, gritt and nastynes, especially on defense.

Sutton salary( 3 500 000$) and injuries is what a worries me a little, but like i mention earlier, getting a top 4dmen will cost a lots and i think Sutton trade value is not very high and worth to take a chance for the following reason.the guy is a monster 6'6 245, very physical, blocks shots, has a nasty disposition that is much needed on the Montreal defense, especialy after seeing the leafs charching Price 3-4 times in the last game.
I can see a trade involving Higgins(who's from NY), O'Byrne or Gorges and Begin.
In return Montreal could get Hunter, Sutton, NY 2nd and 5th round draft pick

What do you guys think?
An please be nice!!!
I like the way you think 'cause I keep thinking there is another solution besides getting someone who would cost waaaaaaaaaaay too much (ex: Bouwmeester), imo it's way too risky. There has got to be another Dman who can help us by being a solid #4 dman without giving up too much of our future (prospectS/draft pickS + current roster playerS).

Like Beaker mentioned, the only thing I don't like about Sutton is his salary for the next 2 years (we have too many to sign to be tied up with Sutton's salary).

But keep up the good ideas...

I'm getting a little tired with the Bouwmeester idea because we're gonna have to overpay like crazy to get him. Also, Bouwmeester has ZERO playoffs experience, plus is seen by some as "too soft", especially for his size. I think people are doing more salivating because they see him on paper and automatically think the HABS will be STRONGER contenders... I'm not so sure about that.

That #4 dman we may need in the near future (___?___) might not need a known, star name (like Bouwmeester), but may be the dman we need.

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11-11-2008, 05:33 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
I like the way you think 'cause I keep thinking there is another solution besides getting someone who would cost waaaaaaaaaaay too much (ex: Bouwmeester), imo it's way too risky. There has got to be another Dman who can help us by being a solid #4 dman without giving up too much of our future (prospectS/draft pickS + current roster playerS).

Like Beaker mentioned, the only thing I don't like about Sutton is his salary for the next 2 years (we have too many to sign to be tied up with Sutton's salary).

But keep up the good ideas...

I'm getting a little tired with the Bouwmeester idea because we're gonna have to overpay like crazy to get him. Also, Bouwmeester has ZERO playoffs experience, plus is seen by some as "too soft", especially for his size. I think people are doing more salivating because they see him on paper and automatically think the HABS will be STRONGER contenders... I'm not so sure about that.

That #4 dman we may need in the near future (___?___) might not need a known, star name (like Bouwmeester), but may be the dman we need.
I get what you're saying but... not sure we would be stronger with Bowmeester replacing Brisebois/O'Byrne ?

please...

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11-11-2008, 05:42 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by mariolemieux66 View Post
I think we should ask Ny Islanders fans what they think of it.

Higgin, Gorges or O'Byrne and Begin
for
Hunter, Sutton a 2nd round and 5th round draft pick.
Judging by what I have read on *************, I doubt that you would find too many of their fans having a problem with trading Sutton. Personally, I don't like the idea of trading a good player (Higgins) who LIKES playing in Montreal, unless the Canadiens get something a lot better than Hunter and Sutton in return.

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11-11-2008, 06:06 PM
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another higgins trade? no way!


sutton's a PYLON and hunter is slow.
no thank you
and not going to happen

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11-11-2008, 08:31 PM
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you guys still wanna trade higgins after this game ??
maybe we should trade price after the game he just played as well

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11-11-2008, 08:34 PM
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you guys still wanna trade higgins after this game ??
maybe we should trade price after the game he just played as well
Higgins can't score goals... haven't you been TAUGHT yet...

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11-11-2008, 08:40 PM
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Maybe we can now go a week without a trade proposal that includes Christopher Higgins.

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11-11-2008, 08:41 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
I get what you're saying but... not sure we would be stronger with Bowmeester replacing Brisebois/O'Byrne ?

please...
I never said/wrote that getting Bouwmeester will maybe or maybe not make us stronger by replacing Brisebois/O'Byrne. Any of us would trade O'Byrne+Brisebois & no one else, no picks, no prospects STRAIGHT UP for Bouwmeester. Gonna happen? No.

I'm thinking of what we have to give to get Bouwmeester (we have to overpay by sooooooo much, maybe a 1st Rounder for '09, a 2nd or 3rd Rounder for either '09 or
'10, Higgins and/or Latendresse, maybe O'Byrne, etc, etc, etc, that's waaaay too much of our future for a couple of months or more). And, I'm among the HAB fans who wants to keep Chris Higgins. And, he doesn't seem greedy (hope! hope!), so we should be able to afford him.

Maybe our defense will get stronger, but our near future will be very affected, and maybe we will have to lose Higgins and someone else, well...forget that if you ask me.

Why not try to get that #4 dman another way (not ridiculously overpaying).

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11-11-2008, 08:42 PM
  #59
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Andy Sutton? Yuck.

What a joke of a proposal. Higgins, O'Byrne or Gorges for a 3rd liner and a overated bottom pairing D who makes 2nd pairing money?

No offence, but awful.

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11-11-2008, 08:42 PM
  #60
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Wait til the deadline
Trade a pick

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11-11-2008, 08:59 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Andy Sutton? Yuck.

What a joke of a proposal. Higgins, O'Byrne or Gorges for a 3rd liner and a overated bottom pairing D who makes 2nd pairing money?

No offence, but awful.
We need more original proposals (without mentioning the obvious ones like Bouwmeester). I want to keep our Higgins (RFA) & '09 picks VS a few months of Bouwmeester.

I'd love to see everyone's (incl. mine!) top TEN LIST of #4 dmen we can get without overpaying like nutcases.

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11-11-2008, 09:00 PM
  #62
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No need now, O'Byrne just played a good game. We're now going to win the cup.

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11-11-2008, 09:29 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
We need more original proposals (without mentioning the obvious ones like Bouwmeester). I want to keep our Higgins (RFA) & '09 picks VS a few months of Bouwmeester.

I'd love to see everyone's (incl. mine!) top TEN LIST of #4 dmen we can get without overpaying like nutcases.
brad stuart hes at 3.5 which is very reasonable and i dont c us giving up more than a mid round pick and a prospect...i really woudl 2 see him play him with hamrlik, with stuart we would hav 3 top solidified defensive pairings....komi-markov...stuart-hamrlik...bouillion-gorges

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11-11-2008, 10:02 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
I never said/wrote that getting Bouwmeester will maybe or maybe not make us stronger by replacing Brisebois/O'Byrne. Any of us would trade O'Byrne+Brisebois & no one else, no picks, no prospects STRAIGHT UP for Bouwmeester. Gonna happen? No.

I'm thinking of what we have to give to get Bouwmeester (we have to overpay by sooooooo much, maybe a 1st Rounder for '09, a 2nd or 3rd Rounder for either '09 or
'10, Higgins and/or Latendresse, maybe O'Byrne, etc, etc, etc, that's waaaay too much of our future for a couple of months or more). And, I'm among the HAB fans who wants to keep Chris Higgins. And, he doesn't seem greedy (hope! hope!), so we should be able to afford him.

Maybe our defense will get stronger, but our near future will be very affected, and maybe we will have to lose Higgins and someone else, well...forget that if you ask me.

Why not try to get that #4 dman another way (not ridiculously overpaying).
Wasnt trying to say that we should go after J-Bow, was just replying to you post where you said you're not sure we would be much stronger contenders...

Anyway, when he'll become available I do hope BG gives Martin a call... I mean, Hossa was traded for 3rd liners, a prospect looking more and more like a bust by the day and a 1st rounder... and Atlanta even included Dupuis in the deal... so, at the very least I expect BG to give a call and see what Martin wants in return... he may be "as greedy" as Wadell, who knows!

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11-11-2008, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Wasnt trying to say that we should go after J-Bow, was just replying to you post where you said you're not sure we would be much stronger contenders...

Anyway, when he'll become available I do hope BG gives Martin a call... I mean, Hossa was traded for 3rd liners, a prospect looking more and more like a bust by the day and a 1st rounder... and Atlanta even included Dupuis in the deal... so, at the very least I expect BG to give a call and see what Martin wants in return... he may be "as greedy" as Wadell, who knows!
About J-Bo: yeah...I just meant that we would probably lose current roster player(s) to get Bouwmeester, like Higgins, for example, and that would make our 2 First lines weaker + also affect our 3rd line (so, overall we would be gaining here BUT losing there, etc). Sure getting Bouwmeester for a few months should solidify our top 4 D, but that's on paper, not everything on paper is great on ice (chemistry, maybe we'll find out how soft J-Bo really is?! like Popovic-soft?!! , we might also find out how good he is...). Anyways...



And, giving up our '09 First Rounder or '09 Second Rounder, well...I'd rather Gainey try his best to hold on to it since Timmins, other scouts AND Gainey have all been great at choosing super 1st Rounders, 2nd Rounders (Price, Pacioretty, McDonagh, PK Subban, Weber). I don't just want to be good now, I want our HABS to be good for a long time (ex: like the Detroit Red Wings).


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11-12-2008, 12:39 AM
  #66
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About J-Bo: yeah...I just meant that we would probably lose current roster player(s) to get Bouwmeester, like Higgins, for example, and that would make our 2 First lines weaker + also affect our 3rd line (so, overall we would be gaining here BUT losing there, etc). Sure getting Bouwmeester for a few months should solidify our top 4 D, but that's on paper, not everything on paper is great on ice (chemistry, maybe we'll find out how soft J-Bo really is?! like Popovic-soft?!! , we might also find out how good he is...). Anyways...



And, giving up our '09 First Rounder or '09 Second Rounder, well...I'd rather Gainey try his best to hold on to it since Timmins, other scouts AND Gainey have all been great at choosing super 1st Rounders, 2nd Rounders (Price, Pacioretty, McDonagh, PK Subban, Weber). I don't just want to be good now, I want our HABS to be good for a long time (ex: like the Detroit Red Wings).
Got an idea, lets not make any trades, ever... I mean, we would gain something BUT lose something else... so...

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11-12-2008, 01:35 AM
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brad stuart hes at 3.5 which is very reasonable and i dont c us giving up more than a mid round pick and a prospect...i really woudl 2 see him play him with hamrlik, with stuart we would hav 3 top solidified defensive pairings....komi-markov...stuart-hamrlik...bouillion-gorges
Brad Stuart plays for DETROIT.... HE IS NOT AVAILABLE.... Detroit is not gonna trade away their number 4 d.... they are contenders too.

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11-12-2008, 01:37 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Got an idea, lets not make any trades, ever... I mean, we would gain something BUT lose something else... so...
Haha!! funny!!

You've got a point though!!

Best solution...we all hope that O'Byrne regains some of that confidence he had last year when he played 20 straight solid games, until...he got injured.

We can wait till (close to) the trade deadline and see...

I know you have to give to receive, but there will be some #4 dmen out there available for less than some of us think. and, Jay-Bo is not a #4 dman, he's a #1-2 dman on half of the NHL teams, and maybe a #3 or #4 dman on stronger teams like Detroit.

Gainey might be able to find a #4 dman without giving up that much.
We'll see...

He's not available (why would Dallas give him to us), but for example I'd love to get a Robidas to play with Hamrlik. Robidas (right-handed) was a solid warrior for Dallas last year in playoffs. And, don't worry...I'm just using Robidas as an example (0,1% chance Robidas comes to Mtl before trade deadline!). But/and, who says Robidas can't do well in Mtl as a #4 dman, instead of Bouwmeester?! (& it woldn't be as costly). Anyways, Robidas isn't available, I'm pretty sure, but I'd take him anyday (I was a huge fan when he was a HAB, still am). Dallas should try and sign him to a long term contract for the 2010-2011.

Who said that Komisarek is one of the most underpaid dmen in nhl? (probably a Leaves, Sens, Bruins fan hoping the Habs won't be able to afford him).
Robidas makes $1,5 mil/year till 2010. Robidas is one of the most underpaid in the NHL, imo.


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 11-12-2008 at 01:55 AM.
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11-12-2008, 01:53 AM
  #69
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I know you have to give to receive, but there will be some #4 dmen out there available for less than some of us think. and, Jay-Bo is not a #4 dman, he's a #1-2 dman on half of the NHL teams, and maybe a #3 or #4 dman on stronger teams like Detroit.
And this is a bad thing how.... So he's our second best dman after Markov... how is aquiring him a problem?? I think it helps the team

You keep Markov-Komi together cause of chemistry...

Then you balance the bottom two pairs

Hammer - Gorges
Bouillion - Bouwmeester


One of Hammer, Markov, J-Bo is always on the ice for the whole game.

Last 10 minutes of a close game, well you shorten your bench

Markov-Komi
Hammer - J-Bo

Are the only ones who see the ice.

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11-12-2008, 02:15 AM
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Because JBo is a #1-2 dman on most teams, he will cost a lot, too much, imo. (this is the bad thing). That's all I was saying. I also think he may be too soft (not enough grit/heart) for what they will be asking in return, but...of course I could be wrong (I hope I am if we ever acquire him!).

Not even sure what he'd cost but since many teams will go after him, we will have to overpay by so much, imo. (ex: 1st rounder in 2009, 2nd rounder for '09 or '10, maybe a 3rd-4th rounder, ONE of Higgins or Latendresse; O'Byrne, 1 or 2 good prospects, heck maybe they'll even push for Halak). If we're gonna give up sooo much , I'd rather take JBo IF he signed right away with us (3-4 year deal), but still...I have some doubts about his heart/grit (I know he has talent, is a great/smooth skater, lots of talent/potential, but...I always have some small doubts about his toughness...am I the only one?).

I'm just saying that I'd like to know who are the #3-4 dmen we can get out there without giving up soooo much. I'm sure there's a #3-4 dman out there who can help Hamrlik out or Bouillon...now (without giving up so much).


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11-12-2008, 03:09 AM
  #71
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Because JBo is a #1-2 dman on most teams, he will cost a lot, too much, imo.
That's all I was saying. I also think he may be too soft (not enough grit/heart) for what they will be asking in return, but...of course I could be wrong (I hope I am if we ever acquire him!).

Not even sure what he'd cost but since many teams will go after him, we will have to overpay by so much, imo. (ex: 1st rounder in 2009, 2nd rounder for '09 or '10, maybe a 3rd-4th rounder, ONE of Higgins or Latendresse; O'Byrne, 1 or 2 good prospects, heck maybe they'll even push for Halak). If we're gonna give up sooo much , I'd rather take JBo IF he signed right away with us (3-4 year deal), but still...I have some doubts about his heart/grit (I know he has talent, is a great/smooth skater, lots of talent/potential, but...I always have some small doubts about his toughness...am I the only one?).

I'm just saying that I'd like to know who are the #3-4 dmen we can get out there without giving up soooo much. I'm sure there's a #3-4 dman out there who can help Hamrlik out or Bouillon...now (without giving up so much).
Only in their dream they would get :
1st round pick
2nd round pick
Higgins or Latendresse
O'Byrne
prospect

+ maybe
3rd/4th round pick
another prospect

be serious for a second here, Bowmeester, just like Hossa was last year, would be a RENTAL...

Sure, he would cost more than a Sutton (OP proposal), but guess what ? he's better than Sutton... and that usually how it works, to get more you have to pay more...

Not saying we should go after him or anything, but thinking acquiring a guy like him would deplete our prospect/youngster pool makes no sense... not a single team would do that in a Cap era NHL... not a single one...



as far as 3rd/4th D goes, I'd be happy with a Mitchell, Ohlund, Morris or Sauer type of D. They shouldnt cost as much as a guy like JB.

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11-12-2008, 03:14 AM
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Because JBo is a #1-2 dman on most teams, he will cost a lot, too much, imo. (this is the bad thing). That's all I was saying. I also think he may be too soft (not enough grit/heart) for what they will be asking in return, but...of course I could be wrong (I hope I am if we ever acquire him!).

Not even sure what he'd cost but since many teams will go after him, we will have to overpay by so much, imo. (ex: 1st rounder in 2009, 2nd rounder for '09 or '10, maybe a 3rd-4th rounder, ONE of Higgins or Latendresse; O'Byrne, 1 or 2 good prospects, heck maybe they'll even push for Halak). If we're gonna give up sooo much , I'd rather take JBo IF he signed right away with us (3-4 year deal), but still...I have some doubts about his heart/grit (I know he has talent, is a great/smooth skater, lots of talent/potential, but...I always have some small doubts about his toughness...am I the only one?).

I'm just saying that I'd like to know who are the #3-4 dmen we can get out there without giving up soooo much. I'm sure there's a #3-4 dman out there who can help Hamrlik out or Bouillon...now (without giving up so much).
He wont get more than Hossa did last year.... you don't have to give up a Higgins or Latendresse to get him

O'Byrne + 2 decent but not top prospects + 1st will do it.... wit the depth in our system this is affordable.

No MaxPac, No McD, No subban, No Maxwell, No Chipchura.

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11-12-2008, 03:53 AM
  #73
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Well guys, we'll just have to wait and see which team gets Bouwmeester this season!! (I can't wait to see what teams will offer to get him at or before the deadline; and I just hope if it's us we don't overpay, but yes...I realize you have to give to receive, I just hope we don't end up giving waaay too much! that's all). Let's wait and see.

And, maybe we shouldn't be so quick to want to include O'Byrne in a package for a "rental" player (we might end up regretting it BIG time, and...sooner than later).

Meanwhile...am I the only one who likes Stephane Robidas as our #4 dman?! (crickets were heard when I mentioned him in previous posts! maybe there's a reason for that?!).

I just realized/saw that Dallas is 5-7-3, and if they continue they might miss the playoffs, no? (I doubt it, but...stranger things have happened). Maybe Robidas to Mtl isn't that far fetched?!! Robidas makes a measly $1,5 mil/year , and till 2010. I still don't see Dallas ever trading him to us.

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11-12-2008, 04:52 AM
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One player that I would like to see on the Habs roster is my fellow countryman Karlis Skrastins. The Panthers were rumored to be willing to move him before the season and might do if they're out of playoff contention come trade deadline. A former NHL ironman, sound positionally, blocks shots and can score at important moments. On the downside - he's not overly physical, and doesn't score very often. An experienced defender, on the last year of his 2,4 mil/a year contract, and probably won't cost much to get him. Worth a try?

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11-12-2008, 05:31 AM
  #75
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Meanwhile...am I the only one who likes Stephane Robidas as our #4 dman?! (crickets were heard when I mentioned him in previous posts! maybe there's a reason for that?!).
Didnt thought of him, but he would be a GREAT addition, became good enough to be a 4th D, (for thoses who watched Stars playoff games) always been good in the playoffs and his salary is more than decent...

unfortunately, the simple fact he's making 1.5M$ makes it harder to get your hand on a player like him... as if a team wants to clean house, the last player they'd get rid of is the cheap and reliable one. And cheap AND reliable is exactly what Robidas became over the years.

He definitely fits in the group of D that would be nice to get though.

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