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Old
11-11-2008, 08:49 AM
  #51
NFITO
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trade like this makes no sense for either team... a team that is fighting for a playoff spot (the canucks) aren't going to trade their two best forwards looking at the future... and a team that is rebuilding right now (the kings) isn't going to deal high-end young talent for a couple of soon to be UFAs.

and for the posters that keep on suggesting that the Sedins are looking for huge contracts, there is nothing at all to suggest this. The last numbers I actually heard from JP Barry (the agent) was that $5mill for each would get it done... this was at the beginning of the season however, and that could have changed now, especially given Gillis' slow movement on getting them signed.

They have also said - repeatedly in numerous articles - that they are not looking for the biggest paycheck, like it in Vancouver and want to finish their career there, even if it's for less than they can make on the open market. Again they've said this numerous times already - and it seems like a standard quote from them every time the media asks them about their contract situation.

So to all those posters that keep suggesting they will sign for $7.5mill/ea or even at $14mill combined - none of those numbers have ever come up from the Sedins or their agent. And again, the only number they actually threw out - Barry said it - was that $5mill each would get them signed...

my guess is that with the delay in signing them since he said that, it still likely won't take much more than $5.5mill each on a longterm deal.

They've said it *MANY* times - they are not going after the biggest paycheck and their priority is re-signing in Vancouver.... anyone that suggests differently is making up assumptions that have no support behind it.

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11-11-2008, 11:37 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
Change Teubert to Doughty and maybe we have a deal.
You can have Doughty when we get Luongo!

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11-11-2008, 11:57 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
To Vancouver: Patrick O'Sullivan, Colten Teubert, Jarret Stoll.

To LA: Ryan Johnson, Daniel Sedin, Henrik Sedin.

You just love those deals where VCR loots another teams young core for your impending UFAs, don't you?

This is like your infamous "Jovocop for Dipietro, a 1st rounder, and a zillion prospects" deal a few years back.

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11-11-2008, 11:58 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BringTheReign View Post
You can have Doughty when we get Luongo!
Dude, that signature line is just hysterical.

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11-11-2008, 03:53 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
You just love those deals where VCR loots another teams young core for your impending UFAs, don't you?

This is like your infamous "Jovocop for Dipietro, a 1st rounder, and a zillion prospects" deal a few years back.
Oh come off it Darth. My trade proposal favours LA. It is hardly trying to loot the Kings. The Sedins are just entering their prime years at 28 and are both scoring at twice the goals per game that either O'Sullivan or Stoll. They have to sign somewhere because they aren't going to retire at 28. Their agent has already said they would be willing to sign with Vancouver for $5 mil/yr each with the only condition that they cannot be traded separately.

Johnson is one of the better defensive forwards in the league and is signed for a second season after this one and at only $1.150 mil/yr.

Those are quality Canuck players. That said I do think O'Sullivan's and Stoll's style of play fit better with the type of team Gillis is trying to build and Teubert is a local kid who has really impressed me so I'm willing to overpay a bit for him.

If you are so against what I suggested the Canucks offer for Teubert, O'Sullivan and Stoll, what do you think the Canucks would have to give up for them?

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11-11-2008, 04:11 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post

If you are so against what I suggested the Canucks offer for Teubert, O'Sullivan and Stoll, what do you think the Canucks would have to give up for them?
I agree with Darth here... makes no sense for the kings to do a deal like this... they aren't going to the playoffs this year, and have obviously built their team in a way that they can be developed over the next few years, rather than competing for a playoff spot this year.

as such, the interest they have in the Sedins will be minimal... right now, it makes more sense for them to give that kind of icetime to their young kids that they are grooming to lead this team in the future... if they are interested at all in the Sedins, it makes more sense to wait till July... if they're available, they can make an offer... if they aren't, they continue to build their team as they have - around Kopitar and Brown and the rest of their great young talent.

If you're looking at a package of O'Sullivan, Stoll and Teubert, my guess is that you'd have to give up something that fits with what they are trying to build now... from the canucks, that would include assets such as Edler and Schneider... I think that's a trade that makes more sense for LA, getting a young NHL ready dman, who fits in with their defense there, and a top rated goalie who, along with Bernier, gives them a chance to find a solid starter moving forward.

IMO those are the types of assets they would be interested in (along with Hodgson, Hansen, Raymond, Kesler, Bernier or Bieksa)... to get the pkg you've suggested above, I think it would have to be built around a pkg which includes those types of assets.

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11-11-2008, 04:29 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
I agree with Darth here... makes no sense for the kings to do a deal like this... they aren't going to the playoffs this year, and have obviously built their team in a way that they can be developed over the next few years, rather than competing for a playoff spot this year.

as such, the interest they have in the Sedins will be minimal... right now, it makes more sense for them to give that kind of icetime to their young kids that they are grooming to lead this team in the future... if they are interested at all in the Sedins, it makes more sense to wait till July... if they're available, they can make an offer... if they aren't, they continue to build their team as they have - around Kopitar and Brown and the rest of their great young talent.

If you're looking at a package of O'Sullivan, Stoll and Teubert, my guess is that you'd have to give up something that fits with what they are trying to build now... from the canucks, that would include assets such as Edler and Schneider... I think that's a trade that makes more sense for LA, getting a young NHL ready dman, who fits in with their defense there, and a top rated goalie who, along with Bernier, gives them a chance to find a solid starter moving forward.

IMO those are the types of assets they would be interested in (along with Hodgson, Hansen, Raymond, Kesler, Bernier or Bieksa)... to get the pkg you've suggested above, I think it would have to be built around a pkg which includes those types of assets.
Well it would make no sense for the Canucks to go after O'Sullivan and Stoll if the Canucks were keeping the twins (the two take up the same roster spots). Then I would only be trying to figure a way to trade for Teubert. Maybe Bernier and one of our left hand shot defensemen not named Edler? This would probably be a better deal for the Canucks anyway.

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11-11-2008, 04:41 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
Well it would make no sense for the Canucks to go after O'Sullivan and Stoll if the Canucks were keeping the twins (the two take up the same roster spots). Then I would only be trying to figure a way to trade for Teubert. Maybe Bernier and one of our left hand shot defensemen not named Edler? This would probably be a better deal for the Canucks anyway.
this would probably make a lot more sense for the Kings as well, I would think...

Bernier would fit in nicely on their right wing behind Brown... gives them a young powerforward with upside that fits with their core age...

but I'm not sure the canucks can afford to give him up... he fits in just as well with the canucks team right now and into the near future.

also, it'd have to depend on the left hand shot dman... I don't think that O'Brien is enough... don't think there is any interest in Davison... Ohlund is a UFA and wouldn't hold much value to a team like LA, and Mitchell is too valuable for the canucks to give up... that's all the defense options.

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11-11-2008, 04:43 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
I agree with Darth here... makes no sense for the kings to do a deal like this... they aren't going to the playoffs this year, and have obviously built their team in a way that they can be developed over the next few years, rather than competing for a playoff spot this year.

as such, the interest they have in the Sedins will be minimal... right now, it makes more sense for them to give that kind of icetime to their young kids that they are grooming to lead this team in the future... if they are interested at all in the Sedins, it makes more sense to wait till July... if they're available, they can make an offer... if they aren't, they continue to build their team as they have - around Kopitar and Brown and the rest of their great young talent.

If you're looking at a package of O'Sullivan, Stoll and Teubert, my guess is that you'd have to give up something that fits with what they are trying to build now... from the canucks, that would include assets such as Edler and Schneider... I think that's a trade that makes more sense for LA, getting a young NHL ready dman, who fits in with their defense there, and a top rated goalie who, along with Bernier, gives them a chance to find a solid starter moving forward.

IMO those are the types of assets they would be interested in (along with Hodgson, Hansen, Raymond, Kesler, Bernier or Bieksa)... to get the pkg you've suggested above, I think it would have to be built around a pkg which includes those types of assets.
Bingo. Its not about talent. A rebuilding team doesn't delete quality young assets for guys that may not stick around.

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Old
11-11-2008, 04:44 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
this would probably make a lot more sense for the Kings as well, I would think...

Bernier would fit in nicely on their right wing behind Brown... gives them a young powerforward with upside that fits with their core age...

but I'm not sure the canucks can afford to give him up... he fits in just as well with the canucks team right now and into the near future.

also, it'd have to depend on the left hand shot dman... I don't think that O'Brien is enough... don't think there is any interest in Davison... Ohlund is a UFA and wouldn't hold much value to a team like LA, and Mitchell is too valuable for the canucks to give up... that's all the defense options.
Ellington or Sauve(but Sauve would have to bring back more than just Teubert) I could see Bernier, Sauve & a pick for Teubert & Moller. Don't under estimate O'Brien's value around the league though.


Last edited by Hi-wayman: 11-11-2008 at 05:00 PM.
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Old
11-11-2008, 04:58 PM
  #61
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Oh come off it Darth. My trade proposal favours LA. It is hardly trying to loot the Kings. The Sedins are just entering their prime years at 28 and are both scoring at twice the goals per game that either O'Sullivan or Stoll. They have to sign somewhere because they aren't going to retire at 28. Their agent has already said they would be willing to sign with Vancouver for $5 mil/yr each with the only condition that they cannot be traded separately.

Johnson is one of the better defensive forwards in the league and is signed for a second season after this one and at only $1.150 mil/yr.

Those are quality Canuck players. That said I do think O'Sullivan's and Stoll's style of play fit better with the type of team Gillis is trying to build and Teubert is a local kid who has really impressed me so I'm willing to overpay a bit for him.

If you are so against what I suggested the Canucks offer for Teubert, O'Sullivan and Stoll, what do you think the Canucks would have to give up for them?
Its the fact of sending to UFA players who arent guaranteed to sign here for part of the Kings core. How does that favor the Kings?

And how exactly are they scoring goals at twice the rate?

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11-11-2008, 05:28 PM
  #62
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Its the fact of sending to UFA players who arent guaranteed to sign here for part of the Kings core. How does that favor the Kings?

And how exactly are they scoring goals at twice the rate?
Look up the statistics for each player:

Daniel - 15 GP - 12 Pts - 0.80 PtsPG
Henrik - 15 GP - 14 pts - 0.93 PtsPG

O'Sullivan - 12 GP - 7 Pts - 0.58 PtsPG
Stoll - 13 GP - 6 Pts - 0.46 PtsPG

As for the Sedins being UFA's. Sign & trade.

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11-11-2008, 05:31 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
Look up the statistics for each player:

Daniel - 15 GP - 12 Pts - 0.80 PtsPG
Henrik - 15 GP - 14 pts - 0.93 PtsPG

O'Sullivan - 12 GP - 7 Pts - 0.58 PtsPG
Stoll - 13 GP - 6 Pts - 0.46 PtsPG

As for the Sedins being UFA's. Sign & trade.
POINTS per game and GOALS per game are 2 different things.

They would have to be signed before DL would even think about this trade. And then it would depends on what money they wanted. Just because they would sign for less in Vancouver doesnt mean they would sign for less elsewhere.

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11-11-2008, 06:06 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
Look up the statistics for each player:

Daniel - 15 GP - 12 Pts - 0.80 PtsPG
Henrik - 15 GP - 14 pts - 0.93 PtsPG

O'Sullivan - 12 GP - 7 Pts - 0.58 PtsPG
Stoll - 13 GP - 6 Pts - 0.46 PtsPG

As for the Sedins being UFA's. Sign & trade.
How about we propose a different kind of deal?

Let's say Hodgson, Yann Sauve, and this year's first rounder for Gaborik. Let's see VCR being the team giving up lots of valuable youth for an impending UFA.

Don't like the idea of losing good young assets for an UFA? Ok - sign and trade.

Not so fun when it is your team on the end of these kind of proposals, eh?

Face it. Other teams are not going to solve your UFA problems for you. Sign Sedins, trade them as UFA rentals at the deadline, or lose them for nothing in the off season. Those are VCR's choices.

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11-11-2008, 07:25 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Tripwyre View Post
True. But it still means the best players on YOUR team, right now, nevermind what many of your youngins might eventually blossom into. The twins have struggled mightily so far on our "offensively challenged" squad, and are still outscoring every LA King.

But nevermind, because this proposal is completely absurd and doesn't really do anything for either team.
a) absolute not..... here in L.A. they would play 3rd Line...

1st is the Kopitar - Brown line
2nd Frolov - Stoll - Moller


b) thats right... like i said.... the Kings are right now, not a good trade partner because the Gm's would have to do a massive overpaiment to get one of them

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11-11-2008, 08:45 PM
  #66
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a) absolute not..... here in L.A. they would play 3rd Line...


Man this place cracks me up sometimes.

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11-11-2008, 10:16 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
How about we propose a different kind of deal?

Let's say Hodgson, Yann Sauve, and this year's first rounder for Gaborik. Let's see VCR being the team giving up lots of valuable youth for an impending UFA.

Don't like the idea of losing good young assets for an UFA? Ok - sign and trade.

Not so fun when it is your team on the end of these kind of proposals, eh?

Face it. Other teams are not going to solve your UFA problems for you. Sign Sedins, trade them as UFA rentals at the deadline, or lose them for nothing in the off season. Those are VCR's choices.
Darth, you must be having a bad day today. You seem hell bent on picking a fight.

Go back and read my posts. My proposal was three Canuck roster players for two LA roster players and one recently drafted prospect who comes from my home town. Granted O'Sullivan and Stoll are younger then the twins, but not by much nor was I looking at the slight age difference. I was looking at the type of game the players play and how their style would suit the other team.

Going back to Teubert. Teubert is from White Rock & I've followed him for years. He is a good defensive propect and a right hand shot that the Canucks could use. LA has a number of quality defense prospects and rookies. Even in a rebuild it is always good to have some older veterns, especially older vets under 30. The twins just turned 28 so where ever they play, they are just entering their prime and will be in the league for years. I would not call them renta-type players.

Teubert was drafted 13th overall in last season's draft which means he has a good chance he's going to be a fine prospect, but there is a good chance Teubert ends up an AHL lifer because LA's defense is so loaded with quality young defensemen that there may be no roster spot open on the Kings. In the same draft that Teubert was drafted 13th overall, LA also drafted Doughty 2nd overall, Voynov 32nd overall and Campbell 74th overall. The season before they drafted Hickey 4th overall. Already LA's defense is made up of Doughty, Greene (age 25), Johnson (age 21), Quincey (age 23) & Harrold (age 25). Do I need to go on? LA has loads of depth of young, highly skilled defensemen that if a trade improves the team in other areas, they can afford to trade Teubert without batting an eye.

Had I suggested Doughty or Hickey instead of Teubert, maybe some would have an arguement, but I didn't. And I'm sorry, anyone who thinks O'Sullivan and Stoll alone would be fair value for the twins better give their head a shake. The fact that the twins are UFA's is just a red hering. Any trade would involve a preagreement as to their contract extention or it wouldn't happen.

Also anyone thinking LA is still in a rebuilding mode better look closely at how deep they are in talent now and how close they are to having most of their younger players fully NHL ready. Their next move will be to assess the holes they still have to improve in their team and fill by trade.

Also note I made a second trade suggestion involving only Teubert and Moller. Moller again is a player that woud fit well with Gillis's type of team, but he also has a large local fan base because he played his junior here in the Fraser Valley. The trade suggestion has as much to do with their local connections as it has to do with their talent.

Your suggestion of Hodgson, Sauve and a 1st round pick doesn't hold water either. Hodgson to Vancouver would be the same as asking LA for Kopitar or even Doughty. I didn't do that in my proposal & I didn't ask LA for draft picks or all young players. As I said, the twins are 28. O'Sullivan is 23 and Stoll 26.

As for Vancouver going after Gaborik, I really hope we don't. As talented as he is, I just have never been a fan of his. Gillis is turning the Canucks into a gritty, hard working team with speed. Edmonton fans said we were a team of no-names and they are partly correct. Gillis is populating the Canucks with players who understand the work ethic rather than with players who excell through shear talent. I think your Islanders have a better chance to get him than the Canucks and I don't think he would cost you as much as you suggest Vancouver would have to pay. By breaking off any likely chance to extend his contract with the Wild, he's really cut the Wild's trade negotiation abilities down. There is a vast difference between a player with the potential to be a UFA only if a negotiated deal can't be made in time and that of a player or team that says there is no chance a contract extention can be reached.


Last edited by Hi-wayman: 11-11-2008 at 10:27 PM.
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