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Old
11-11-2008, 07:43 PM
  #51
mapes
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Toronto should send him to the Marlies. No one will claim him on waivers..

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Old
11-11-2008, 08:03 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victor View Post
Hemsky has been able to put up points with a great number of different players.

Even players that some label as "very inconsistent and is a pretty slow skater, and he looks quite lazy at times" can score 20+ goals playing with him.

That's not to say that Penner is a goal scorer - even with his injury (which I'm sure that you are aware of, as you follow the team closely,) that's had him listed as questionable for games, he's kept playing, and while he's not scoring from the third line, he's still contributing.



A 35 year old winger, with 15 goals last season, who's played his way into the press box, that could "easily hit 20+" once again?

Perhaps for the Marlies.
You do realize the fact that Penner can score 20+ with Hemsky is due to Hemsky`s passing skills.

..and saying someone who once scored 29goals and 16 assists in a season is not a goal scorer..thats assinine.

I'm done with this argument, I think we'll see Blake moved somewhere, Edmonton, Marlies, ECHL I don't know..But even if he is waived I beleive this speedster, has something left in him..Just not in Toronto ala Wellwood, Tucker..etc

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Old
11-11-2008, 08:30 PM
  #53
dubey
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Originally Posted by TOG26 View Post
If you haven't seen him play a game this year, which obviously you haven't I wouldn't make this comment. He played on a checking line till last week. Due to Edmonton trying Erik Cole on the top line.
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Originally Posted by voxel View Post
He helps the Oilers win games. His production dropoff can be attributed to him getting minimal PP time (this only changed in the last game or two).

Personally, I'd rather have a player have 0pts and be a +50 than a player with 40pts and is -20. I have no interest in icing a team full of Lupuls and Blakes.
1st+2nd+3rd traded for a 4.25M checking line winger locked in for four more seasons including this one.

Glad he's working out for you guys.

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Old
11-11-2008, 08:36 PM
  #54
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While Penner has been disappointing, how does replacing him with Blake make any sense at all? At least Penner has size and doesn't share the same health concerns as Blake (which, while not his fault really hamper his trade value). Also reports are that Blake is a bit of a puck hog which wouldn't mesh with Hemsky, as Hemsky likes to carry the puck and just find someone in the open. And White isn't needed, we have enough d-men.

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11-11-2008, 08:41 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by dubey View Post
1st+2nd+3rd traded for a 4.25M checking line winger locked in for four more seasons including this one.

Glad he's working out for you guys.
Funny, only the fans of other teams seem to think that it was a bad deal.

Penner was Edmonton's leading scorer last year, acquired for:
  • Marc-Andre Bergeron, for 9 games, 1 assist, 4PIM, -2
  • Jake Gardiner
  • Nicholas Deschamps
  • Eric O'Dell
  • Justin Schultz
  • Brandon McMillan

With the current group, I'd rather have Penner playing (even injured, as he is) than additional prospects to add to the list that Edmonton is currently developing.

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Old
11-11-2008, 11:19 PM
  #56
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Old
11-12-2008, 02:05 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by GoKingsGo94 View Post
Their only hope is to buy him out and take their loss.
That's not really an option at this point. He'd on the books for 6 or 8 years. I can't remember what's left after this year. Man it's unfortunate but I think the brass is simply gonna eat his contract in the minors next year if we can find some nice UFA's in the off season.

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Old
11-12-2008, 02:21 AM
  #58
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the whole reason we got blake was caws of JFJ and to be fair it was also because of the CBA.. its ridiculous.. the only way u can pick up big name free agents is if you sign them long-term.. fergie is a joke and needed to learn how to say no, but this is hapening all over the league.. u think brian campbell is going to be good for the duration of his deal?? as much as i like the parody in the NHL right now, the salary cap has destroyed large market teams such as tml... and it hasnt helped small market teams because the floor keeps going up... i know this is completly off topic, but we're going to have another lock-out and this time it will be COMPLETELY the owner's fault

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Old
11-12-2008, 02:36 AM
  #59
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I can't see any situation in which he doesn't get bought out, short of attaching a 1st rounder to him a la Matvichuk. His negative value is really that high, and is magnified that much more by the cap situation most contending teams are in.

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Old
11-12-2008, 07:39 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victor View Post
Funny, only the fans of other teams seem to think that it was a bad deal.

Penner was Edmonton's leading scorer last year, acquired for:
  • Marc-Andre Bergeron, for 9 games, 1 assist, 4PIM, -2
  • Jake Gardiner
  • Nicholas Deschamps
  • Eric O'Dell
  • Justin Schultz
  • Brandon McMillan

With the current group, I'd rather have Penner playing (even injured, as he is) than additional prospects to add to the list that Edmonton is currently developing.
Funny, 4 of those guys I was really high on leading up to the draft this year. Saying you don't need to develop any more prospects is absurd. These guys are all 18, we're not talking about 23 year olds that will have to be exposed to waivers soon.


...but I'm sure they'll all bust...

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Old
11-12-2008, 07:57 AM
  #61
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blake is pretty worthless right now. wait and see and hope that his trade values moves up at least one rung on the very long ladder. i doubt it.

is there any other teams out there with a horrible contract on their hands?

if so, toronto is going to have to look at teams with a contract they don't like/want and hope something can be worked out.

i have my doubts.

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Old
11-12-2008, 08:14 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Arjun View Post
.But even if he is waived I beleive this speedster, has something left in him..Just not in Toronto ala Wellwood, Tucker..etc
Yeah, cause Tucker and Raycroft have worked so well for the Avs.

The Oilers purged (like the Leafs) underperforming players with work ethic and attitude problems. The Leafs are almost done through their purge...

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Old
11-12-2008, 08:27 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
Funny, 4 of those guys I was really high on leading up to the draft this year. Saying you don't need to develop any more prospects is absurd. These guys are all 18, we're not talking about 23 year olds that will have to be exposed to waivers soon.


...but I'm sure they'll all bust...
No, it's not... seriously where are you going to play all these prospects? We have to rotate forwards + D-men as healthy scratches because the Springfield AHL roster is stuffed with recently signed prospects. A bunch of prospects are shuttled back and forth the ECHL to get ice time. Most of these young prospects are B+ grade (second-pairing upside or second liners) that could play limited roles in the NHL now - Chorney, Schremp, Brule, Peckham, Trukhno, Hrabal - so 2nd/3rd rounders don't interest me.

Prospect development is as important as drafting, but when you lack roster space in your minor league what do you do?

Also, there's a maximum of 50 NHL contracts and the Oilers are going to have to sign a few next year(from the 2007 draft - 3 year ELCs) or lose their rights.

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Old
11-12-2008, 09:08 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by victor View Post
Funny, only the fans of other teams seem to think that it was a bad deal.

Penner was Edmonton's leading scorer last year, acquired for:
  • Marc-Andre Bergeron, for 9 games, 1 assist, 4PIM, -2
  • Jake Gardiner
  • Nicholas Deschamps
  • Eric O'Dell
  • Justin Schultz
  • Brandon McMillan

With the current group, I'd rather have Penner playing (even injured, as he is) than additional prospects to add to the list that Edmonton is currently developing.
Not true. He was acquired for a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd. What the Ducks did with the picks is completely irrelevant. What you need to wonder is what would the oilers have done with those picks? Who they would have picked and how good picks would they have been without Penner in the lineup.

If you buy a tv from me for a 100$ and i spend it on booze, you didn't buy a tv from me with booze. Get it?

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Old
11-12-2008, 09:34 AM
  #65
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IMO Penner for Blake is a trade that the Oilers wouldn't consider touching... and White, who's been throw into most of the Leaf proposals for the past few years, is also *worthless* to a team like Edmonton... if both those guys were put on waivers, Edmonton (along with most of the other teams in the league) wouldn't touch either of those guys.

Penner, on the other hand, would never be put on waivers... and if he was, he'd get picked up quickly.

There's a *significant* difference between a struggling 35 YO with 3 yrs left on his deal at $4mill/yr, who brings nothing else to the table if he's not scoring, and a struggling 25 YO who has other assets he can bring to the table (such as defensive play, and physical presence) that allows him to be effective in other roles when he's struggling to score.

The values aren't even close, and throwing in a guy like White only lowers the value from the Leafs side because he's just another contract that the Oilers don't want or need.

as a fan of neither team, I'd take a chance easily on a 25YO Penner before considering a 35YO Blake. Blake is clearly on the downside of his career, and like I said above, is pretty much useless if he's not scoring... and he's still got 3 yrs left on his deal. Penner is still only 25YO. He hasn't even hit his prime years yet, let alone being on the downside like Blake.

Anyone that thinks that this is even close to fair value is either overrating Blake or underrating Penner.... Penner is not a player the Oilers have to worry about moving... he's struggled offensively, but he's still young enough that it's easy to go through those growing pains, especially when the package he brings outside his point production is significantly more valuable than Blake.

My guess it that if Blake was put on waivers he'd be passed on by every team... if he was then put on re-entry waivers, he'd likely also be passed on by every team. No one in the league, IMO, wants that contract for a 35YO player that is clearly getting to the end of his playing days and has a significant chunk of his contract locked up for 3 more years... even teams like the canucks, that have tons of current cap space, can not take a chance on that contract after this year because that $4mill cap space becomes necessary for more useful players.

The only option that Toronto has, IMO, is to waive him, pay his salary in the minors and not worry about him anymore... makes no sense for them to give up something more (like a top pick or good prospect) just to get rid of that contract... not when you're a rebuilding team that is in the NHL's richest market and salary is really irrelevant.. if he's waived and playing for the Marlies, he doesn't have a cap hit... and the Leafs can surely afford to take that hit, rather than move a valuable future piece from a team that needs as much of that as they can get as they rebuild moving forward.

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Old
11-12-2008, 09:56 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
The only option that Toronto has, IMO, is to waive him, pay his salary in the minors and not worry about him anymore... makes no sense for them to give up something more (like a top pick or good prospect) just to get rid of that contract... not when you're a rebuilding team that is in the NHL's richest market and salary is really irrelevant.. if he's waived and playing for the Marlies, he doesn't have a cap hit... and the Leafs can surely afford to take that hit, rather than move a valuable future piece from a team that needs as much of that as they can get as they rebuild moving forward.
Blake would throw a **** fit if he was sent to the Marlies. As much as they could leave him there, he'd be a huge distraction to whatever developing youth the Leafs had down there.

The Leafs will buy-him out or hope to god someone takes his contract with a draft pick or something.

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11-12-2008, 09:59 AM
  #67
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Blake would throw a **** fit if he was sent to the Marlies. As much as they could leave him there, he'd be a huge distraction to whatever developing youth the Leafs had down there.

The Leafs will buy-him out or hope to god someone takes his contract with a draft pick or something.
I think the hope if they did send him down, was that he would throw a fit and refuse to report. That way they can suspend him and not have to pay him a cent.

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11-12-2008, 10:00 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by dubey View Post
1st+2nd+3rd traded for a 4.25M checking line winger locked in for four more seasons including this one.

Glad he's working out for you guys.
I never said he was worth the offer sheet, just saying he brings a hell of a lot more to the table then Jason Blake and is worth something unlike blake.

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Old
11-12-2008, 10:05 AM
  #69
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I think the hope if they did send him down, was that he would throw a fit and refuse to report. That way they can suspend him and not have to pay him a cent.
That's possible, but I doubt he does that.

He'd go down there, and just throw a **** fit there so he'd still get his money and make his argument well known to all the media who would no doubt be hounding him for some great quotes against the Leaf organization.

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Old
11-12-2008, 10:07 AM
  #70
NFITO
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Blake would throw a **** fit if he was sent to the Marlies. As much as they could leave him there, he'd be a huge distraction to whatever developing youth the Leafs had down there.

The Leafs will buy-him out or hope to god someone takes his contract with a draft pick or something.
buying him out doesn't make any sense... that's 6 years you'll have his buyout against the cap... at 2/3rd the buyout rate, divided into 6 yrs, that's over $1.3mill against the cap for the next 6yrs!

if he has such a problem playing on the Marlies, then the leafs will have no problem suspending him.

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11-12-2008, 10:10 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
buying him out doesn't make any sense... that's 6 years you'll have his buyout against the cap... at 2/3rd the buyout rate, divided into 6 yrs, that's over $1.3mill against the cap for the next 6yrs!

if he has such a problem playing on the Marlies, then the leafs will have no problem suspending him.
It doesn't make sense, but that could be the only reasonable option available to them.

Can you suspend a player causing troubles in your locker-room? If not, then the Leafs will be stuck with him unless a buyout, or a stupid GM comes into play.

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Old
11-12-2008, 10:26 AM
  #72
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Is it possible to waive him and then tell him to get lost as he tries to enter the Marlies lockerroom? Pay him his cash, no cap hit and no association with the developing talent.

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Old
11-12-2008, 12:01 PM
  #73
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Is it possible to waive him and then tell him to get lost as he tries to enter the Marlies lockerroom? Pay him his cash, no cap hit and no association with the developing talent.
That could raise problems involving the NHLPA. There were a lot of ruffled feathers when it was suggested the Leafs might use a similar tactic with McCabe although McCabe couldn't be demoted.
Send him down and tell his agent that if he doesn't like it he can retire/work out a trade on his own with another team

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Old
11-12-2008, 12:54 PM
  #74
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No, it's not... seriously where are you going to play all these prospects? We have to rotate forwards + D-men as healthy scratches because the Springfield AHL roster is stuffed with recently signed prospects. A bunch of prospects are shuttled back and forth the ECHL to get ice time. Most of these young prospects are B+ grade (second-pairing upside or second liners) that could play limited roles in the NHL now - Chorney, Schremp, Brule, Peckham, Trukhno, Hrabal - so 2nd/3rd rounders don't interest me.

Prospect development is as important as drafting, but when you lack roster space in your minor league what do you do?

Also, there's a maximum of 50 NHL contracts and the Oilers are going to have to sign a few next year(from the 2007 draft - 3 year ELCs) or lose their rights.
First of all, anyone you pick plays in junior for 2 years, or possibly in University or Europe for 2-4. So at the very least, you have 2 years to assess the players you take from rounds 1-3 & they will still be tradable assets when they turn 20.

Drafting a few college players gives you huge leeway with the 50 player limit, so I stand by what I said. It's ridiculous to say your team has 'too many' prospects, & I think it's just a cop-out for not wanting to discuss the Penner trade.

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Old
11-12-2008, 03:24 PM
  #75
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