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Lasse Kukkonen On Waivers (update post #127: CLEARED WAIVERS, Nov. 14)

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Old
11-13-2008, 02:03 PM
  #76
decadentia
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
It was clearly a mistake to trade for him. He's been terrible and his bloated contract forced the hand of the GM to waive another player. We didn't trade for Alberts to take the place of someone else. This is why you have a farm system, and if guys like Syvret and Guenin are not trustworthy enough to get spot callups, they shouldn't be in the organization.
Very good point.

I'm not a fan of this personally. I really think the Stevens bus had far too much to do with this. I would prefer Kukks over Alberts, and he is cheaper.

I can't help but be appreciative of what Holmgren did when he first came in, I just wish there was more planning for the not-so-far-off future.

What a silly assed game of musical chairs this has become.

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11-13-2008, 02:04 PM
  #77
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cause this way stevens can still give lasse no ice time and keep carle up at 20+ minutes. taking ice time away from carle, let alone to give it to kukkonen, is not something stevens would do even if he was being forced to take a dump with a spike up his ass.
Now I see the error of my thinking. Thanks.

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11-13-2008, 02:07 PM
  #78
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National Lampoon's Vacation style.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDkbYDFlINM
Thurr ya go.

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11-13-2008, 02:10 PM
  #79
Terence Peterman
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Originally Posted by decadentia View Post

What a silly assed game of musical chairs this has become.
to date, "silly assed" gets my vote for description of the team for the year

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Now I see the error of my thinking. Thanks.
no problem. i'll be here.

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Old
11-13-2008, 02:19 PM
  #80
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kukkonen at center? i'm hoping to see an ovechkin style performance out of him, just to spite stevens. 6-2 flyers, 5 pt night for lasse.

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11-13-2008, 02:20 PM
  #81
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kukkonen at center? i'm hoping to see an ovechkin style performance out of him, just to spite stevens. 6-2 flyers, 5 pt night for lasse.
i think tonight's game could look that way, but as a loss for the flyers...the only real hope is they're lagging coming off that huge win in detroit the other night.

doubt it happens though.

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11-13-2008, 02:23 PM
  #82
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You guys couldn't move a winger to centre and have Kukkonen play wing on the 4th line?

It's worked for us with a similarly feisty guy like Schubert... seems way more logical than asking a Dman to play centre.

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11-13-2008, 02:24 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Darth Gerber View Post
You guys couldn't move a winger to centre and have Kukkonen play wing on the 4th line?

It's worked for us with a similarly feisty guy like Schubert... seems way more logical than asking a Dman to play centre.
With John Stevens, nothing ever makes sense.

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11-13-2008, 02:25 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
i think tonight's game could look that way, but as a loss for the flyers...the only real hope is they're lagging coming off that huge win in detroit the other night.

doubt it happens though.
i don't think lasse can get 5 points if we lose 6-2

sadly, i agree. though a win against a surging penguins team could be the kick in the ass this team needs to get their **** together.

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11-13-2008, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
The Flyers already had their own Goligoski in Sbisa.

Eminger was gaining confidence by the game, but still wasn't totally comfortable. Without trading for Alberts, three defenseman on the Flyers could have been a rookie and two AHL call-ups due to the number of injuries on the back end.

It was the right trade at the time.
It may have been at the time, but this is a marathon, not a sprint.

Goligolski is not their Sbisa because Goligolski played in the Penguins system. That's my point. Goligolski played 70 AHL games last year, and before that played three years in college. It's not like he was drafted within the last two years and thrown in the deep end of the pool like Sbisa was. This is the new NHL, you have to be able to use your system. If not, you're going to sink, and regardless of the Flyers win vs the Islanders, or even if the Penguins win tonight, the Flyers are still sinking because they have not adequately tapped into their resources. Holmgren still has the Clarke-ian attitude of "we don't need draft picks as long as we have a decent prospect pool." That's not how it works anymore. Every team, good or bad, at some point needs to tap into their farm and the ones who sink in the standings are usually the ones who don't get adequate contributions from it. In 12 seasons, the Phantoms have THREE defenseman (not counting Pitkanen) who has played more than 200 games (Eaton, Seidenberg, Vandermeer - we're not exactly talking all-stars here) in the NHL.


Last edited by GKJ: 11-13-2008 at 02:51 PM.
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11-13-2008, 02:49 PM
  #86
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Guenin can pretty much do what Kukkonen can and he's on a two way deal. In that regard, it makes sense. However, it would have made a lot more sense to have not made the move for Alberts in the first place....

This organization is in a bit of a mess right now

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11-13-2008, 03:01 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
It may have been at the time, but this is a marathon, not a sprint.

Goligolski is not their Sbisa because Goligolski played in the Penguins system. That's my point. Goligolski played 70 AHL games last year, and before that played three years in college. It's not like. He was drafted within the last two years, This is the new NHL, you have to be able to use your system. If not, you're going to sink, and regardless of the Flyers win vs the Islanders, or even if the Penguins win tonight, the Flyers are still sinking because they have not adequately tapped into their resources. Holmgren still has the Clarke-ian attitude of "we don't need draft picks as long as we have a decent prospect pool." That's not how it works anymore. Every team, good or bad, at some point needs to tap into their farm and the ones who sink in the standings are usually the ones who don't get adequate contributions from it. In 12 seasons, the Phantoms have THREE defenseman (not counting Pitkanen) who has played more than 200 games (Eaton, Seidenberg, Vandermeer - we're not exactly talking all-stars here) in the NHL.
I agree that the season is more like a marathon than a sprint. I also agree with the school of mind that your farm system is an integral part of making your team competitive.

Sbisa is like Goligoski in that neither had played a full year at the NHL level before being thrust into a role where they were expected to contribute offensively while logging heavy minutes. Goligoski may have more professional experience, but he still required a massive transition to the NHL game.

Where the 'developing players through system' argument fails this season's incarnation of the Flyers is that there isn't anyone with the Phantoms the Flyers' management feel comfortable bringing to the NHL level. That's why Sbisa is still here and that's why the Alberts trade was made. OK, so the Flyers have failed at an organizational level in developing defensemen who can contribute effectively in the NHL; that doesn't mean acquiring Alberts wasn't the right decision. Syvret and/or Guenin is not the answer. Alberts might not be (read: isn't) either, but that doesn't mean trading for him was a mistake.

Injuries always force GMs to take chances. Whether it's a call-up or a trade, they have to do something. The Flyers have ****** defensemen in the system, so they made a trade. You say the Flyers haven't adequately tapped into their resources. What resources? The only legit defensive prospect the Flyers have is Sbisa and he's on the team already (I'm not counting Parent who's injured).

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Last edited by CanadianFlyer88: 11-13-2008 at 03:06 PM. Reason: forgot to note Parent's injury
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Old
11-13-2008, 03:22 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
Guenin can pretty much do what Kukkonen can and he's on a two way deal. In that regard, it makes sense. However, it would have made a lot more sense to have not made the move for Alberts in the first place....

This organization is in a bit of a mess right now
You said it.

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11-13-2008, 03:26 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I agree that the season is more like a marathon than a sprint. I also agree with the school of mind that your farm system is an integral part of making your team competitive.

Sbisa is like Goligoski in that neither had played a full year at the NHL level before being thrust into a role where they were expected to contribute offensively while logging heavy minutes. Goligoski may have more professional experience, but he still required a massive transition to the NHL game.

Where the 'developing players through system' argument fails this season's incarnation of the Flyers is that there isn't anyone with the Phantoms the Flyers' management feel comfortable bringing to the NHL level. That's why Sbisa is still here and that's why the Alberts trade was made. OK, so the Flyers have failed at an organizational level in developing defensemen who can contribute effectively in the NHL; that doesn't mean acquiring Alberts wasn't the right decision. Syvret and/or Guenin is not the answer. Alberts might not be (read: isn't) either, but that doesn't mean trading for him was a mistake.

Injuries always force GMs to take chances. Whether it's a call-up or a trade, they have to do something. The Flyers have ****** defensemen in the system, so they made a trade. You say the Flyers haven't adequately tapped into their resources. What resources? The only legit defensive prospect the Flyers have is Sbisa and he's on the team already (I'm not counting Parent who's injured).
If you're having to make a trade for a 6th defenseman 2 games into the season, he isn't going to be the answer either. Alberts was never going to be the answer. If you want to trade for him and send Sbisa back to juniors, I could see that, but we went from having no defensemen, to having defensemen not be the answer at the expense of the common good of the team. Either way, there was never going to be an answer.

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11-13-2008, 03:30 PM
  #90
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It agreaves me that Lasse has gone the way of old yeller. I hope someone picks him up and gives him a legitimate shot at playing in a top 6.

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11-13-2008, 03:38 PM
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Lasse at C? Some kind of joke?

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11-13-2008, 04:02 PM
  #92
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I'm sorry to report, this is no joke.

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11-13-2008, 04:08 PM
  #93
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I'm not a fan of this move, and would much rather have seen Alberts jettisoned before Kukkonen.

I wish I knew the thinking behind all of this is... because so far, it doesn't make a lick of sense to keep a more expensive crappy player and waive a not-great player who would be a good 6th defenseman.

Hopefully Kukkonen catches on somewhere, because he deserves better than he got from the Flyers.

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11-13-2008, 04:18 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Charlie_Girl View Post
I'm not a fan of this move, and would much rather have seen Alberts jettisoned before Kukkonen.

I wish I knew the thinking behind all of this is... because so far, it doesn't make a lick of sense to keep a more expensive crappy player and waive a not-great player who would be a good 6th defenseman.

Hopefully Kukkonen catches on somewhere, because he deserves better than he got from the Flyers.
that's a large theme of this whole season so far. i don't think we're being told a whole lot, and if it continues, as it seems it will, the team's going to be lucky to be even within a reach of where they ended up last year.

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11-13-2008, 04:28 PM
  #95
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This just in ...

Quote:
Lasse Kukkonen On Waivers: Stevens Gives Him A Final ******* You
posted: 5:27pm
by IrishSniper87

In a not so startling move, GM Paul Holmgrem has placed Flyers Defensemen Lasse Kukkonen on waivers.

Kukkonen, 27, has been a healthy scratch or bottom pairing defensemen since he arrived in Philadelphia. Kukkonen is on a 1-way NHL contract, so he must pass thru waivers before being sent down to the Flyers AHL affliate, the Philadelphia Phantoms. While on waivers, Kukkonen can be claimed by any other NHL team, and Philadelphia would be off the hook for his $900k cap hit. However, if Kukkonen made it thru waivers and was placed in the AHL, the Flyers would have to place Kukkonen on re-entry waivers if they wanted to have him back with the big club. On re-entry waivers, Kukkonen can be claimed by another team and the Flyers would be forced to pay half his salary (and it would count against the cap).

This situation means that if Kukkonen makes it thru waivers, it is unlikely Flyers fans will ever see him suit up for a Flyers game ever again. While most fans will not even notice this move, some feel bad for the Fin, while others use this as another oppurtunity to bash Flyers Coach John Stevens

When Flyers Coach John Stevens heard about the move, he was quote "thrilled" and "ecstatic" but also "dissapointed he could not take part in further ruining the 27 year old defensemens career".

In a last minute coaching move, Coach Stevens has decided to play Kukkonen at Center tonight, on the Flyers 4th forward line against in-state rival, the Pittsburgh Penguins. This move ensures Kukkonen can play his last NHL game with the Flyers in the most minimal of roles, with the least amount of ice-time possible, and also be forced to endure the hardships of playing a position he has not played since he was in high school, further increasing Kukkonen's embarrassment and ensuring he never gets called up to the NHL again.

This reporter would like to wish Lasse the best of luck, and would like to continue to follow his career as Kukkonen will no doubt retire from the NHL at the end of the season and go play in the Finnish League.

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11-13-2008, 04:31 PM
  #96
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This just in ...
Hey, wrong thread! This isn't our keeper league you clown.


Ha ha~

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11-13-2008, 04:36 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
If you're having to make a trade for a 6th defenseman 2 games into the season, he isn't going to be the answer either. Alberts was never going to be the answer. If you want to trade for him and send Sbisa back to juniors, I could see that, but we went from having no defensemen, to having defensemen not be the answer at the expense of the common good of the team. Either way, there was never going to be an answer.
I agree with you here, except that the Flyers have virtually no confidence in Kukkonen and they didn't think a call-up was the answer; Alberts was a chance they could afford to take while losing nothing significant. At the end of the day, the Flyers lost a long-shot prospect and a conditional draft pick.

I expect that Sbisa will go back to Lethbrdige when Jones returns from injury. Parent should go back to the Phantoms which will leave Timonen, Coburn, Carle, Vaananen, Jones and Alberts as the top six. Basically the Alberts trade does allow Sbisa to go back to the WHL.

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11-13-2008, 04:44 PM
  #98
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Words can't express my hatred for Stevens and Holmgren now. First, they screw around with Downie and then ship him out. Kukkonen had to endure being sat out for the illustrious Vandermeer and Modry last year, yet whenever he was put back in with a game or two under his belt, he was fine, he was our top shot blocker and he was steady defensively. Nobody expected him to set the world on fire, but it seems that the idiot behind the bench just wanted him gone.

What the hell does Stevens have on Holmgren? Alberts is preferred over Kukkonen? Seriously? And tonight they'll put Kukks at centre? For real? I thought it was a joke!

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11-13-2008, 04:44 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I agree with you here, except that the Flyers have virtually no confidence in Kukkonen and they didn't think a call-up was the answer; Alberts was a chance they could afford to take while losing nothing significant. At the end of the day, the Flyers lost a long-shot prospect and a conditional draft pick.

I expect that Sbisa will go back to Lethbrdige when Jones returns from injury. Parent should go back to the Phantoms which will leave Timonen, Coburn, Carle, Vaananen, Jones and Alberts as the top six. Basically the Alberts trade does allow Sbisa to go back to the WHL.
right, but they should have foreseen the cluster**** on defense that was inevitably going to happen when everyone was healthy. to me, while everyone might not agree, that was enough to not make the move for alberts. sticking it out isn't always the worst thing, especially in the beginning of the season.

sending sbisa back doesn't answer the cap issues, and him and parent in the W and A together doesn't answer them either. it arguably leaves the best defense we can put on the ice off of it, and a bigger move needs to happen.


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Old
11-13-2008, 04:48 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
Guenin can pretty much do what Kukkonen can and he's on a two way deal. In that regard, it makes sense. However, it would have made a lot more sense to have not made the move for Alberts in the first place....

This organization is in a bit of a mess right now
I hate to think this, let alone admit it, but you are 100% correct.

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