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Was O'Byrne always so passive?

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Old
11-14-2008, 10:36 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
He's had some huge hits with the Habs, notably the one on Greg Campbell. I think he's just young and doesn't want to take himself out of position and receive less icetime as a result. Just a confidence thing if he's hit throughout his career and not now.
People seem to forget that Komisarek took a few years to become a hitter in the NHL. Komo tried for the hits but didn't have the NHL timing.

I honestly would rather him simply have more aggressiveness down low and along the boards. The big hits get you out of seat but the tough rugged play is what will make him a ***** to play against.

Right now, he looks like Patrick Traverse.

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11-14-2008, 11:41 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
He's had some huge hits with the Habs, notably the one on Greg Campbell. I think he's just young and doesn't want to take himself out of position and receive less icetime as a result. Just a confidence thing if he's hit throughout his career and not now.
Indeed. Those who saw him play last season will remember these hits and also the fith after the Campbell hit where he broke his thumb. He tried giving a few hits early in the season but it put him out of position and then he got benched. So it's only normal that he's hesitant right now.

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11-14-2008, 11:42 PM
  #28
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Is it just me or is he starting to look like Hal Gill?

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11-14-2008, 11:43 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by King Kovalev View Post
Youre asking that question now? Weren't you one of those who thought we should move Bouillon so that he would have more ice time? Anyways. OByrne never was or never will be a big hitter and a good fighter. His assets are his big reach and skating ability.(although his skating does look kinda weird) This is just a case of people watching way too much Youtube. Im far from being a big OByrne fan but hes still pretty young for a Dmen. I say we let him play this year and judge him afterwards.
What?

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11-15-2008, 12:08 AM
  #30
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Old
11-15-2008, 09:53 AM
  #31
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O'Byrne is simply a little "snake-bit". It's been one bad luck story after another since he came up to the Habs. Remember his perfectly clean body check last year on Williams of the Leafs? He got a major and misconduct for a text book take out. Then on rookie initiation night he gets arrested all over a harmless prank. When he steps up for a teammate in Fla. he ends up with a broken hand.

Now add to all of this a coaching staff without any former defenseman to show him the ropes, and the head coach shuffling him in and out of the line-up.

To me it's just a matter of him lacking the confidence to play more physically, as if he's afraid to:
(a) Take himself out of the play
(b) Get penalized
(c) Earn the disfavour of the coaches
Now I know that being shuffled in and out of the line-up is something all young players have to deal with, just like having different partners on the blue line but I believe he would benefit from a little stability right now. Just pair him with Hammer and leave him in the line-up. I really believe that if shown a little confidence as well as being taught better decision making with the puck, he’ll become a solid forth d.

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Old
11-15-2008, 11:26 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
I"m shocked that you would disagree with someone. I guess O'Byrne got the 210 pims in the AHL by being passive. Hitting machine is subjective since one person might use the word a little more losely then others. So what did you see him do as an AHLer, was his hit on Elder a one time thing?

As for the knock on him, when he was drafted it was that he ran around too much in his own end and he didn't handle the puck well when he was pressured, made bad decisions.

I couldn't disagree more with him "rubbing a guy out", since I saw him throw some major league hip checks that crushed several players into the boards. Granted it backfired here and there but he could use his speed to really lay into the forwards.
His speed? Are we even talking about the same player?

You can talk about the hit on Elder over and over again, but that is one hit. Instead of wetting yourself over a major hit he laid and then pretending the the exception is the rule, why not look at his professional career? He certainly hasn't been a heavy hitter in his time in Montreal. And I saw him play an awful lot in Hamilton - including a lengthy playoff run - and hitting was never his strong suit.

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Old
11-15-2008, 11:30 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Andrei Kostopolous View Post
People seem to forget that Komisarek took a few years to become a hitter in the NHL. Komo tried for the hits but didn't have the NHL timing.
Not true. Komisarek was a hitter right from day one. The issue was not that he needed to find his timing, it was that he needed to pick his spots.

Too often Komisarek - in the first few years - would run after guys. He'd take himself out of position in order to lay a hit, or he would play so recklessly, that he would lay a hit that would leave him off balance or worse on the ice himself. No point in taking *yourself* out of the play.

What Komo learned was to pick his spots. To use his physicality more intelligently. He realized he didn't need to murder everyone that came down his side of the ice. More important then laying him out is gaining possession of the puck. Once he learned that, his hits were much more effective. It took Komo a little while to realize that being a punishing defenseman is great, but being a good defenseman is better.

That little tweak in his game is the difference between Dave Mason, Denis Gauthier and Bryan Marchment compared to Scott Stevens, Dion Phaneuf and Mike Komisarek.

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11-15-2008, 12:15 PM
  #34
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all i got to say is wow what a stupid thread.

O'byrne is passive....No he isn't....yes he is.....no he isn't....



really??? so our team loses a couple of big divisional games in the first 15 games and our HF crew is ready to throw o'byrne out an airlock? The guy is a good young Defenceman that is trying to earn a position on the team. he needs to improve there is no doubt.

Seriously it makes no difference if he does or not, we will still be in the finals anyway. Gainey will make the neccessary moves when they are needed. O'byrne did not lose the game against Toronto or the Bruins.The Canadiens did. all of them.

O'byrne will develop into a good Defenceman weather you haters like it or not. If you choose to try and knock him down go ahead. I see a promising young defenceman that will probably be an important piece of the puzzle in one way or another by seasons end.

In the end if you believe that O'byrne is passive i have to question the method to how you came up with this conclusion. Sure Ryan is no killer, but he makes big hits when it is warrented and will no doubt increase his hitting as he gets more accustomed to the NHL. maybe some would rather he develop by taking stupid penalties and putting himself out of position like Komisarek did when he was developing but i don't. I have heard O'byrne say in multiple interviews that he is trying to do what the coaches have told him to do. He wants to play physical but he does not want to get caught out of position. The current coaching staff is demanding this of him. So naturally he is concentrating on being in the right place. The hitting/physical play will increase as he gets acclimatized.

Also this season the team has other guys to fight. The 4th line is full of guys that are dispensible during a game. We don't want our D fighting when we have a guy like Laraque. Last year we had no heavyweight so guys like O'byrne had to fill in, thats why Bob went out and got a heavyweight. O'byrne needs to develop his skills, not worry about doing the fighting too. I'm sure he will throw down occasionally but it is not his job.

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Old
11-15-2008, 12:44 PM
  #35
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Hehe "Rob Blake-like". Either way, we'd obviously all like to see him be more aggressive. That's the biggest part of his game, without it he's basically an average to below-average defenseman in the NHL, unless he magically gains some other skills. When he hits, it looks painful, he's gotta keep doing it to keep his place here.

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11-15-2008, 12:51 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benji View Post


Hehe "Rob Blake-like". Either way, we'd obviously all like to see him be more aggressive. That's the biggest part of his game, without it he's basically an average to below-average defenseman in the NHL, unless he magically gains some other skills. When he hits, it looks painful, he's gotta keep doing it to keep his place here.
Without he's Hal Gill without the penalty killing ability.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but a lot of people around here want to pretend he's a stud defenseman in the making.

There's no evidence of that yet.

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11-15-2008, 12:52 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
Without he's Hal Gill without the penalty killing ability.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but a lot of people around here want to pretend he's a stud defenseman in the making.

There's no evidence of that yet.
I think he's going to be a good bottom pairing defenceman. Who will pick his spots for a big hit, fight if he has to. Block shots. He needs to pick his spots better, not panic with the puck and not ice it so much. He's young, I don't expect him to be anything more than abottom pairing d man.. but his combination of size and speed is pretty good for a bottom pairing d man.

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Old
11-15-2008, 01:05 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
His speed? Are we even talking about the same player?

You can talk about the hit on Elder over and over again, but that is one hit. Instead of wetting yourself over a major hit he laid and then pretending the the exception is the rule, why not look at his professional career? He certainly hasn't been a heavy hitter in his time in Montreal. And I saw him play an awful lot in Hamilton - including a lengthy playoff run - and hitting was never his strong suit.
Yes O'B has good speed for a guy his size.

As for the Elder hit, is there really a need to say I'm wettig myself over the hit? I mean what's your point, I always have rational discussions on these boards and usually never get personal or feel the need to put someone down. I made one reference to a great hit, so no I'm not wetting myself, I did really enjoy the hit though, just as I enjoyed watching O'Byrne all through his NCAA and AHL career.

He isn't a heavy hitter in the NHL, you don't say, he's only played in 44 games maybe he needs time to adjust more? It's not like you can't youtube Ryan O'Bryne and find a bunch of hits in the NHL. http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...&oq=Ryan+O%27b

As for the AHL, funny I don't recall seeing you post in the Hamilton board when you saw all those games. I sure you saw a lot, I know I did and I know O'Byrne was a physical force. Ask Derrick, Hamilton's play by play the next time he's around, I'd be interested to see what he says if O'B was very physical or not. I know he said he though OB was better then Komi was in Hamilton and I know O'B wasn't an AHL All Star for his offense.

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Old
11-15-2008, 01:24 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
His speed? Are we even talking about the same player?

You can talk about the hit on Elder over and over again, but that is one hit. Instead of wetting yourself over a major hit he laid and then pretending the the exception is the rule, why not look at his professional career? He certainly hasn't been a heavy hitter in his time in Montreal. And I saw him play an awful lot in Hamilton - including a lengthy playoff run - and hitting was never his strong suit.
I dont think we are cause O'Byrne has good speed for his size. He's faster the Komisarek that's for sure.

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11-15-2008, 01:43 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Last year he broke his hand fighting... we don't need him injured too.
That may be because he doesn't know how to do it. That's what you get by getting guys from US Colleges.

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11-15-2008, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
Why is Obyrne so passive? Because he plays for the Montreal Canadiens! The most passive team in the nhl.
I've always had this theory that when a player come play for the Habs he loses all his edge. I don't know of it's playing for the most glorious franchise in hockey. But the guys becomes nicy nice do-gooders. That's the message that was sent the moment we traded Claude Lemieux and Chris Chelios.

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11-15-2008, 01:55 PM
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I think we are seeing Peter Popovic part 2!

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11-15-2008, 02:20 PM
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I think we are seeing Peter Popovic part 2!
maybe

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Old
11-15-2008, 02:22 PM
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Tanguay!
I've actualy thought Tanguay hasn't been that bad when there's some scrums happening. I thought he would be softer!

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11-15-2008, 02:49 PM
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This team badly needs another Chris Nilan. A guy who can fight anyone, mug opponent's good players, skate, play sound defensively and score some goals.

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11-15-2008, 05:23 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
This team badly needs another Chris Nilan. A guy who can fight anyone, mug opponent's good players, skate, play sound defensively and score some goals.
Every team would love to have 3 or more of these players, but they're not easy to come by.

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Old
11-15-2008, 06:09 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Yes O'B has good speed for a guy his size.

As for the Elder hit, is there really a need to say I'm wettig myself over the hit? I mean what's your point, I always have rational discussions on these boards and usually never get personal or feel the need to put someone down. I made one reference to a great hit, so no I'm not wetting myself, I did really enjoy the hit though, just as I enjoyed watching O'Byrne all through his NCAA and AHL career.

He isn't a heavy hitter in the NHL, you don't say, he's only played in 44 games maybe he needs time to adjust more? It's not like you can't youtube Ryan O'Bryne and find a bunch of hits in the NHL. http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...&oq=Ryan+O%27b

As for the AHL, funny I don't recall seeing you post in the Hamilton board when you saw all those games. I sure you saw a lot, I know I did and I know O'Byrne was a physical force. Ask Derrick, Hamilton's play by play the next time he's around, I'd be interested to see what he says if O'B was very physical or not. I know he said he though OB was better then Komi was in Hamilton and I know O'B wasn't an AHL All Star for his offense.
When you say "use his speed" it implies he's speedy, no?

Now you've adjusted to say "speed for his size" which is a very different thing.

More to the point, however, is that O'Byrne struggles with his mobility. If he were more mobile, perhaps his footspeed would be a better asset. As it stands right now, the only time I really find myself noticing his speed is when he's coming up ice to join a play, meaning, when he doesn't have the puck.

As for Elder, you said the hit was so hard you thought he *killed* him. If you took offense to me saying you were "wetting your pants" with that comment, then I apologize. I was merely pointing you your overzealousness, I meant no offense.

As for the whole YouTube thing - really? I mean, if I find a big hit from Sergei Berezin on YouTube does that make him a big hitter too? What's the point of bringing up YouTube in a conversation about a hockey players ability to take the body? You're a better poster then that.

Ditto for the comments about the Hamilton board. I've never posted there in my life... what does that prove? Does that now mean that I didn't see those games? I don't even understand where you're going with this 'argument.' Then you go on to say that O'Byrne wasn't an AHL All-Star because of his offense?

Huh?

Who said he was? Is the implication that him being an AHL All-Star proves he's a good hitter in the NHL? Don't you think it's more likely that it means he played well defensively?

I suspect that O'Byrne, right now, is absorbing a lot of things from the coaching staff and trying to implement them into his game. I'm not so worried about his ability right now, I'm more interested in how well he's playing around Christmas.

I spend so much time on these boards reasoning with the O'Byrne supporters here that one thing is really getting lost in all of these posts: I think the kid can be a good NHL defenseman. I just don't think he's anywhere near that yet. Big, defensive defenseman have the toughest learning curve in the NHL, in my opinion. Right now O'Bryne is proving that.

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11-15-2008, 06:45 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
Not true. Komisarek was a hitter right from day one. The issue was not that he needed to find his timing, it was that he needed to pick his spots.

Too often Komisarek - in the first few years - would run after guys. He'd take himself out of position in order to lay a hit, or he would play so recklessly, that he would lay a hit that would leave him off balance or worse on the ice himself. No point in taking *yourself* out of the play.

What Komo learned was to pick his spots. To use his physicality more intelligently. He realized he didn't need to murder everyone that came down his side of the ice. More important then laying him out is gaining possession of the puck. Once he learned that, his hits were much more effective. It took Komo a little while to realize that being a punishing defenseman is great, but being a good defenseman is better.

That little tweak in his game is the difference between Dave Mason, Denis Gauthier and Bryan Marchment compared to Scott Stevens, Dion Phaneuf and Mike Komisarek.
Somewhat true. Komisarek was missing a lot of his hits that he makes today. He would frequently miss his prototypical squash along the boards when he came to the big leagues.

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Old
11-15-2008, 09:52 PM
  #49
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I like O'Byrne, but man was tonight brutal.

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11-15-2008, 10:29 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I like O'Byrne, but man was tonight brutal.
Really? Werent they commenting in the first on the good job he was doing with extra responsibilities? I didnt watch the 3rd and part of the 2nd o I guess it went downhill.

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