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Old
11-13-2008, 11:47 PM
  #151
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None of the moves you made make this team better now or in the long run (for that matter, mine only do if you land the right defenseman).

You want to clear cap space so badly? Send down Brunnstrom for a month. Saves about $400,000. Sending him down two months save $800,000, enough to bring Neal back and send down/waive any forward you'd like.

He's got potential, but he's way too raw to be earning the money he's costing the Stars at the NHL level. Giving him 3 weeks-however long in the AHL will both give the Stars cap space and make him better.

Believing young players will always get better the more you play them is asinine as well. Or did we learn nothing from Jon Sim/John Erskine/Todd Harvey/et al?

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11-14-2008, 12:05 AM
  #152
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The Stars aren't sending Brunnstrom to the AHL unless he's okay with it. Jackson has said that multiple times.

Keep counting on that to happen.

Keeping one player who is useless (Boucher, $2.5 million) by sending someone to the minors who has been more effective (Brunnstrom, $2.225 million, 6 goals) doesn't make sense.

The longer Dallas stays against the cap, the harder it is to acquire anyone. I never said they should stick with Janik, Kukkonen, Niskanen, or Fistirc for the season as the 5th and 6th defenseman for the year. If Boucher's salary was moved now, everyday that goes by Dallas can afford a higher priced player. Otherwise, Dallas is limited to the cap hit they can bring on.

Value wise, Kukkonen and Janik are better than Boucher and what he brings to the table. It’s a subtle move, as opposed to what you are saying, that allows for Neal to also come up. It also creates a situation were Dallas can actually trade for a better player in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
None of the moves you made make this team better now or in the long run (for that matter, mine only do if you land the right defenseman).
Because your drastic proposals make much more sense.

A simple waiver acquisition saves the team millions, gets a defenseman that can bring as much and probably more to the team than Boucher, and would allow the team to make a move for a decent player in the future. FYI, if they got rid of Boucher now, they could afford a $5 million player in January.

Nah, let's just fleece the team to save the season.

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11-14-2008, 12:17 AM
  #153
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Last thing, because this is just pissing me off.

Who the hell is going to trade with Dallas? Teams don't typically start making moves until the roster freeze in December. Even then, nothing major happens until closer to the deadline. It just doesn't happen anymore.

Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over and getting the same result. Should Dallas do nothing until someone trades with them?

So, Dallas should call up Neal, take away even more cap space, and make it even harder to pick someone up later in the season.

Or, you clear the space now, and make it to where Dallas could afford pretty much any player in the NHL, assuming they are being shopped.

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11-14-2008, 01:54 AM
  #154
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Brunnstrom has been effective in one game and fairly one-dimensional in the rest in a dimension where, tonight excluded, the Stars haven't really struggled this season. The GM shouldn't be beholden to a player. Jackson or Hull should have a sit-down with Brunnstrom where they explain both the cap aspects and the development aspects of an assignment to the minors, then assign to the minors. They need to make him okay with it because it's what's best for the team right now. And assuming they can do that, cap space becomes less of a problem.

Kukkonen is not necessarily an upgrade over Boucher. He's on the waiver wire for a reason. He's just a different thing. You think he'll fix the defense? Fine, get rid of Niskanen in his place then, if it's about fixing the defense. If the message is "this team needs to be better," then you need to get rid of the worst players. Boucher has not played to his potential, but he is not the worst defenseman on this team. He's not even the most disappointing defenseman.

And again, dangling Erkisson + whoever for a trade isn't to move Eriksson. It's to see what type of return is out there. I like Eriksson as a player, tonight's black hole of offensive creativity notwithstanding. He's a good, hard worker with above average instincts. But that also makes him valuable in terms of what he'd bring. If no one bites with a good offer, then nothing has to come from it.

And moving Boucher is subtle? What definition of the world subtle does that fit?

Also, to me, cap space to pick up a high-value player is not as important because one player will not fix what ails this team. The goal of the shake ups would be to snap everyone else out of their funk, the way dumping Armstrong did last year. But as much as I rag on Niskanen or Robidas or anyone else, they're all symptoms of a team-wide problem. The type of shake up I see as necessary is more of the demotion/fourth-line variety, and maybe getting trade rumors out there, real or not.

Make them fight for their jobs. Bench last year's golden rookie. Get their heads out of their heads (and other bodily orifices). These are essentially the same players that did so much last spring. The ability is there, they're just not harnessing it. That's what makes it so frustrating, but also not a complete wasteland of pessimism.


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Old
11-14-2008, 09:11 AM
  #155
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You obviously have the right to believe they will send Brunnstrom down to the AHL, and I'm not even arguing that that situation would not make sense. I think it would. We have very little data on the way Jackson runs the Stars. I do know that:

1) Jackson said he wouldn't put Brunnstrom in the AHL.
2) He wants young players to play and grow in the NHL (see Eriksson).
3) He'll make the coach put a player in the lineup (see Eriksson).

That data leads me to believe that there is not a reasonable chance of Brunnstrom going to the AHL. Now, the current situation could cause a change in Jackson's thinking, but I'm not sold he will.

Now, calling Brunnstrum ineffective is ludicrous. Every time he's been given a shot, not riding the bench or playing less than 5 to 10 minutes, he has produced offensively. Furthermore, he is scoring goals at a much higher rate than any Stars player considering his playing time. Yeah, he's made mistakes on defense, but he has also made good plays in that zone as well. The ability is there. He just needs the coaching and the experience to execute it.

Finally, saying that offense is not a problem is surprising. Dallas allowed 2 goals in 3 of the last 4 games, and 3 in the other, and still only wins 1 game and received 1 loser point. That sounds like pretty decent defense and pretty pathetic offense to me.

Now to the numbers:

If Dallas calls up James Neal today:

1) They will be $506,442.92 over the cap with 15 forwards (Lundqvist on IR)

2) They waive/trade Barch first, they would be $45,824.64 over the cap.

3) They waive/trade Petersen or Crombeen, they would be $65,851.52 over the cap.

If they wait for Lundqvist to be healthy in 1.5 or 3.5 weeks and call up James Neal:

1) Waive/trade Lundqvist and Barch:
a) 1.5 weeks = Dallas would be $506,666.42 under the cap.
b) 3.5 weeks = Dallas would be $470,662.86 under the cap.

2) Waive/trade Lundqvist and (Petersen/Crombeen)
a) 1.5 weeks = Dallas would be $488,118.03 under the cap.
b) 3.5 weeks = Dallas would be $453,996.19 under the cap.

3) Waive/trade Barch and (Petersen/Crombeen)
a) 1.5 weeks = Dallas would be $376,827.71 under the cap.
b) 3.5 weeks = Dallas would be $353,996.19 under the cap.

4) Waive/trade Petersen and Crombeen
a) 1.5 weeks = Dallas would be $358,279.32 under the cap.
b) 3.5 weeks = Dallas would be $337,329.53 under the cap.

If they trade/waive Philippe Boucher, claim Lasse Kukkonen, and call up James Neal today:

1) They would be $795,304.39 under the cap.

2) They waive/trade Barch also, they would be $1,255,922.67 under the cap.

3) They waive/trade Petersen or Crombeen, they would be $1,235,895.79 under the cap.

If they follow that up by waiving/trading one of whoever is left of Lundqvist, Barch, Petersen, and Crombeen when Lundqvist is healthy in 1.5 or 3.5 weeks, they would save an additional:

1) Lundqvist: $537,903.23 (1.5 weeks) or $483,333.33 (3.5 weeks)
2) Barch: $426,612.90 (1.5 weeks) or $383,333.33 (3.5 weeks)
3) Petersen: $408,064.52 (1.5 weeks) or $366,666.67 (3.5 weeks)
4) Crombeen: $408,064.52 (1.5 weeks) or $366,666.67 (3.5 weeks)

Analysis:

The first situation for Dallas is impossible.

The second situation will work financially, but do you really want to nothing for 4 to 10 more games depending on Lundqvist’s health. Dallas has earned 3 of a possible 12 points in the last 6 games. They are the 2nd worst team in the West, but St. Louis has 2 games in hand and the same number of wins and losses. It’s not impossible or even unlikely that Dallas will be the worst team in the West very soon. Inaction is no longer an option.

Trading or waiving Boucher is a subtle move because Boucher is no longer effective. To claim that he hasn’t reached his potential yet is absurd. How do you even know what it is? A player who is over 35 and ravaged by injuries the past few years is certainly going to decline. The Boucher you see on the ice could very likely be the player he will be from now on. Niskanen will improve, or at least it is much more likely.

It seems to me your hold up may be that you prefer a veteran over younger players. Veterans are great, but they have to be effective on the ice. I just don’t see how Boucher is offering more to the team than another cheaper and younger player like Lasse Kukkonen.

Oh yeah, Kukkonen is on waivers because he doesn’t get along with the coach. Most Philidelphia fans are upset that he is being waived and feel he should be playing for the Flyers. Yes he is a little on the light side, but most fans say he will fearlessly block shots and plays a very sound game in the defensive zone.

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11-14-2008, 10:29 AM
  #156
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I don't know if a coaching change would be the right thing to do, but while reading a different forum I though of Randy Cunneyworth.

He is an assistant with Atlanta right now, so I don't even know if it would be possible, but his name was brought up in the offseason by teams looking for coaches.

He is supposed to be good with young players. I think quite a few Buffalo and Florida players made big strides with him in the AHL. If Dallas makes a coaching change, I think he'd be a guy they'd look at hopefully.

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11-14-2008, 01:28 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
You obviously have the right to believe they will send Brunnstrom down to the AHL, and I'm not even arguing that that situation would not make sense. I think it would. We have very little data on the way Jackson runs the Stars. I do know that:

1) Jackson said he wouldn't put Brunnstrom in the AHL.
2) He wants young players to play and grow in the NHL (see Eriksson).
3) He'll make the coach put a player in the lineup (see Eriksson).

That data leads me to believe that there is not a reasonable chance of Brunnstrom going to the AHL. Now, the current situation could cause a change in Jackson's thinking, but I'm not sold he will.

Now, calling Brunnstrum ineffective is ludicrous. Every time he's been given a shot, not riding the bench or playing less than 5 to 10 minutes, he has produced offensively. Furthermore, he is scoring goals at a much higher rate than any Stars player considering his playing time. Yeah, he's made mistakes on defense, but he has also made good plays in that zone as well. The ability is there. He just needs the coaching and the experience to execute it.

Finally, saying that offense is not a problem is surprising. Dallas allowed 2 goals in 3 of the last 4 games, and 3 in the other, and still only wins 1 game and received 1 loser point. That sounds like pretty decent defense and pretty pathetic offense to me.

Now to the numbers:

If Dallas calls up James Neal today:

1) They will be $506,442.92 over the cap with 15 forwards (Lundqvist on IR)

2) They waive/trade Barch first, they would be $45,824.64 over the cap.

3) They waive/trade Petersen or Crombeen, they would be $65,851.52 over the cap.

If they wait for Lundqvist to be healthy in 1.5 or 3.5 weeks and call up James Neal:

1) Waive/trade Lundqvist and Barch:
a) 1.5 weeks = Dallas would be $506,666.42 under the cap.
b) 3.5 weeks = Dallas would be $470,662.86 under the cap.

2) Waive/trade Lundqvist and (Petersen/Crombeen)
a) 1.5 weeks = Dallas would be $488,118.03 under the cap.
b) 3.5 weeks = Dallas would be $453,996.19 under the cap.

3) Waive/trade Barch and (Petersen/Crombeen)
a) 1.5 weeks = Dallas would be $376,827.71 under the cap.
b) 3.5 weeks = Dallas would be $353,996.19 under the cap.

4) Waive/trade Petersen and Crombeen
a) 1.5 weeks = Dallas would be $358,279.32 under the cap.
b) 3.5 weeks = Dallas would be $337,329.53 under the cap.

If they trade/waive Philippe Boucher, claim Lasse Kukkonen, and call up James Neal today:

1) They would be $795,304.39 under the cap.

2) They waive/trade Barch also, they would be $1,255,922.67 under the cap.

3) They waive/trade Petersen or Crombeen, they would be $1,235,895.79 under the cap.

If they follow that up by waiving/trading one of whoever is left of Lundqvist, Barch, Petersen, and Crombeen when Lundqvist is healthy in 1.5 or 3.5 weeks, they would save an additional:

1) Lundqvist: $537,903.23 (1.5 weeks) or $483,333.33 (3.5 weeks)
2) Barch: $426,612.90 (1.5 weeks) or $383,333.33 (3.5 weeks)
3) Petersen: $408,064.52 (1.5 weeks) or $366,666.67 (3.5 weeks)
4) Crombeen: $408,064.52 (1.5 weeks) or $366,666.67 (3.5 weeks)

Analysis:

The first situation for Dallas is impossible.

The second situation will work financially, but do you really want to nothing for 4 to 10 more games depending on Lundqvistís health. Dallas has earned 3 of a possible 12 points in the last 6 games. They are the 2nd worst team in the West, but St. Louis has 2 games in hand and the same number of wins and losses. Itís not impossible or even unlikely that Dallas will be the worst team in the West very soon. Inaction is no longer an option.

Trading or waiving Boucher is a subtle move because Boucher is no longer effective. To claim that he hasnít reached his potential yet is absurd. How do you even know what it is? A player who is over 35 and ravaged by injuries the past few years is certainly going to decline. The Boucher you see on the ice could very likely be the player he will be from now on. Niskanen will improve, or at least it is much more likely.

It seems to me your hold up may be that you prefer a veteran over younger players. Veterans are great, but they have to be effective on the ice. I just donít see how Boucher is offering more to the team than another cheaper and younger player like Lasse Kukkonen.

Oh yeah, Kukkonen is on waivers because he doesnít get along with the coach. Most Philidelphia fans are upset that he is being waived and feel he should be playing for the Flyers. Yes he is a little on the light side, but most fans say he will fearlessly block shots and plays a very sound game in the defensive zone.
So in closing we are screwed!

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Old
11-14-2008, 01:45 PM
  #158
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Kukkonen cleared waivers.

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11-14-2008, 02:57 PM
  #159
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A win tonight by St. Louis will push Dallas to last in the West, and the 2nd worst record in the NHL.

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11-14-2008, 03:28 PM
  #160
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Barry Melrose just got fired.

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Old
11-15-2008, 10:19 AM
  #161
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The Dallas Stars' GMs' plan is to do nothing. According to this article:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...e.3b84d70.html

Thanks to a St. Louis win last night, Dallas is the worst freaking team in the West, and they are an one point ahead of the worst team in the NHL.

James Neal has 3 goals and an assist in 4 games in the AHL, and Dallas can't even call him up. I guess inaction is the way to go.

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11-15-2008, 11:18 AM
  #162
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Nowhere to go but up in the Western Conference.

And you better believe they WILL be going up in due time.

Helps to be optimistic when things are going this poorly.

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11-15-2008, 12:37 PM
  #163
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These guys need to spend day and night together until they can learn to trust eachother, I don't care what it takes, you don't spend to the cap to not make hte playoffs. And you don't go to the WCF without having something decent going on. This team needs to get better, and fast.

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11-15-2008, 02:17 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
These guys need to spend day and night together until they can learn to trust eachother, I don't care what it takes, you don't spend to the cap to not make hte playoffs. And you don't go to the WCF without having something decent going on. This team needs to get better, and fast.
They already supposably "bonded" during the New York road trip. Just a bunch of pieces. No synergy.

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