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Old
07-10-2004, 04:54 PM
  #26
canucks666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SedinFan
Florida wouldn't reject that, that's foolish to even suggest they would. Wake up.

yes buddy, they would. And until people can understand that they will never come up with intelligent trade proposals.


Bertuzzi for horton straight up they would reject. Florida is in no rush. And Horton has the potential to be as dominant a power forward as bertuzzi except he's 10 years younger, and already has shown more at his age than bertuzzi did.


bertuzzi is almost 30. Horton isn't even 20.

Bertuzzi makes a huge amount of money.

bertuzzi has a horrible reputation in every city outside vancouver now.

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07-10-2004, 05:29 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. kØUkLØs
:lol

Funny guy...
The best player in the deal is going to Vancouver.
3 of the 4 best players in the deal are going to Vancouver.
Only future is going from a re-building franchise to a contending team.
One of the worst proposals I have ever seen.

Florida would reject Bertuzzi, Salo for Horton alone.
Back to soccer for you Homer.

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07-10-2004, 05:38 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canucks666
yes buddy, they would. And until people can understand that they will never come up with intelligent trade proposals.


Bertuzzi for horton straight up they would reject. Florida is in no rush. And Horton has the potential to be as dominant a power forward as bertuzzi except he's 10 years younger, and already has shown more at his age than bertuzzi did.


bertuzzi is almost 30. Horton isn't even 20.

Bertuzzi makes a huge amount of money.

bertuzzi has a horrible reputation in every city outside vancouver now.
So Bertuzzi at 30 is basically what? Done ?
He's overpaid?
You don't think Keenan would take Bertuzzi for Horton in a heartbeat? Then you don't know much about Keenan or the actual value of proven stars in this league.

Bertuzzi on Florida would make the Panthers a threat to do some damage in the playoffs this season.... Horton may have an impact on their team in a couple of years. I'm not overrating Bertuzzi here and these kinds of trades are a bit silly, but you are saying one of the top power forwards in the league wouldn't get an unproven first round rookie. That's insane.

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07-10-2004, 07:37 PM
  #29
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Unproven?

Horton is projected to be Bertuzzi with better wheels.

Todd never did the things Nathan has done at the age of 18. Not to put Todd down, he is great but, with the compete nucleaus we have in Florida all under 25, what good would trading two or three pieces of it when they can all grow together.

You will see many championships coming from the southeast division,it will be hockey's toughest in not to many years.

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07-10-2004, 07:42 PM
  #30
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Uh, yeah, he's unproven.

Say what you want about what he "projects" to be; the statement that he is unproven is pretty much fact.

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07-10-2004, 07:42 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quat
So Bertuzzi at 30 is basically what? Done ?
He's overpaid?
You don't think Keenan would take Bertuzzi for Horton in a heartbeat? Then you don't know much about Keenan or the actual value of proven stars in this league.

Bertuzzi on Florida would make the Panthers a threat to do some damage in the playoffs this season.... Horton may have an impact on their team in a couple of years. I'm not overrating Bertuzzi here and these kinds of trades are a bit silly, but you are saying one of the top power forwards in the league wouldn't get an unproven first round rookie. That's insane.
what's insane is not recognize the age difference, the high salary of bertuzzi, and the reputation, all being added to the fact that the florida panthers are IN THE MIDDLE OF A REBUILD... what would adding todd bertuzzi do? nothing.. nothing at all

his salary would suck money out of the budget, limiting the resources needed to keep all their other good young players around when their contracts need to be renewed

:edit: i should also add is it's insane to say florida could do damage in the playoffs while ignoring the fact they must get there first. there's no reason why bertuzzi would propel them in the playoffs on your guarantee


Last edited by andora: 07-10-2004 at 07:51 PM.
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Old
07-10-2004, 08:05 PM
  #32
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Let's just agree that the trade doesn't really make sense for either team.

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07-10-2004, 08:22 PM
  #33
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All due respect to Horton, but he will lucky to be the player Bertuzzi is. Nobody, not even Horton, has the physical package that Bertuzzi brings to the table, not to mention the talent to go along WITH that physical package.

Horton might be another Bill Guerin, but a Todd Bertuzzi - I don't see it.

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Old
07-10-2004, 09:08 PM
  #34
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Quote:
To Florida:
Bertuzzi, Cloutier, Salo, Malik

To Vancouver:
Luongo, Horton, Mezie, Stewart
Breaking it down

Bertuzzi for Horton, Mezie, Stewart. Fair trade. A proven star usually goes for potential star, a good young player and a 1st (or there abouts). Which is about what this offer is. Florida would not do it for team balance reasons. Florida suck now, and will suck for a few more years and Bertuzzi won't change that. So why trade for him with players that will help them when they are ready (3 years).

That leaves

Luongo for Cloutier, Salo, Malik. No way in hell Florida would do that.

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Old
07-10-2004, 09:11 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by me2

Luongo for Cloutier, Salo, Malik. No way in hell Florida would do that.
i'm pretty sure they wouldn't do the first part either. to trade two future big forwards with skill and a powerforward potential, not to mention being great friends, who both aren't even twenty is quite silly. sure it's the potential game, but florida isn't in any hurry to win a cup or to inject a huge salary into their budget.

it would be poor management..

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Old
07-10-2004, 09:55 PM
  #36
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[QUOTE=andora]what's insane is not recognize the age difference, the high salary of bertuzzi, and the reputation, all being added to the fact that the florida panthers are IN THE MIDDLE OF A REBUILD... what would adding todd bertuzzi do? nothing.. nothing at all

his salary would suck money out of the budget, limiting the resources needed to keep all their other good young players around when their contracts need to be renewed

:edit: i should also add is it's insane to say florida could do damage in the playoffs while ignoring the fact they must get there first. there's no reason why bertuzzi would propel them in the playoffs on your guarantee[/QUOTE

Adding Bertuzzi to the Panthers would be an excellent addition for them if the cost was only Horton. Like I said, Bertuzzi would make them a much stronger team now, and be a huge positive for their team. I'm not saying the Panthers would make this trade, but it's foolish to deny as you are that it wouldn't make them a better team. Here, I'll say it again: These trade suggestions are unrealistic, they won't happen. Understand? That doesn't mean Bertuzzi sucks or that Horton won't ever be a good player.

The Panthers are already poised to make the playoffs, and with a player who can be as dominant as Bertuzzi playing with someone like Jokela, that's a pretty major line right there. They've got a young defence and good goaltending... you are making out like the Panthers have nothing, which imo is far from the truth. Adding Bertuzzi a couple of years ago at age 30 I would agree with...but even then, stars do draw fans and having Bertuzzi, hated or otherwise would put fans in the seats. At the very least the addition of Bertuzzi gets them into the playoffs... so a first round showing already pays off with extra revenue. Essentially you are saying the Flames should have dumped Iginla because the team wasn't in the right stage to make use of him... because I'm sure there are a whole lot of comparisons you could draw between the Flames last season and the Panthers next.

So Bertuzzi's present contract would keep the Panthers from keeping their young players in a couple of years? How does that make any sense?

Just about any team in the league would be happy to add Bertuzzi to it's roster, and you are fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

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Old
07-10-2004, 10:13 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quat
So Bertuzzi at 30 is basically what? Done ?
He's overpaid?
You don't think Keenan would take Bertuzzi for Horton in a heartbeat? Then you don't know much about Keenan or the actual value of proven stars in this league.

Bertuzzi on Florida would make the Panthers a threat to do some damage in the playoffs this season.... Horton may have an impact on their team in a couple of years. I'm not overrating Bertuzzi here and these kinds of trades are a bit silly, but you are saying one of the top power forwards in the league wouldn't get an unproven first round rookie. That's insane.
different priorities.

bertuzzi can be good for maybe 5 more years

horton, like jokinen, and luongo can be good for FIFTEEN more years.

those ten years, matter a lot. Over this time, florida will make more money then in the next few years by having bertuzzi. It is a team STILL building for the future - focusing on the now for them would be idiotic

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Old
07-10-2004, 10:28 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quat

Adding Bertuzzi to the Panthers would be an excellent addition for them if the cost was only Horton.
the main cost imo is his salary. sure, player wise horton for bertuzzi favors florida, but there are other elements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quat
Like I said, Bertuzzi would make them a much stronger team now, and be a huge positive for their team. I'm not saying the Panthers would make this trade, but it's foolish to deny as you are that it wouldn't make them a better team. Here, I'll say it again: These trade suggestions are unrealistic, they won't happen. Understand? That doesn't mean Bertuzzi sucks or that Horton won't ever be a good player.
ok, i worded my post poorly, but i didn't mean bertuzzi wouldn't improve them, but he won't improve them enough to give up three good young potential players, two with excellent potential similiar to bertuzzi while adding a huge salary, as well as adding an attitude on and off ice

understand? i never said bertuzzi sucks and i never guaranteed horton is the next superstar


Quote:
Originally Posted by quat
At the very least the addition of Bertuzzi gets them into the playoffs...
oh that's nice, how will the leafs do next season, please i'm curious. you cannot just make a claim like that. ONE injury to a major player in florida, and because there aren't many, the team could sink.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quat
Essentially you are saying the Flames should have dumped Iginla because the team wasn't in the right stage to make use of him... because I'm sure there are a whole lot of comparisons you could draw between the Flames last season and the Panthers next.
essentially your making this up, you came up with this not me

Quote:
Originally Posted by quat
So Bertuzzi's present contract would keep the Panthers from keeping their young players in a couple of years? How does that make any sense?
well what is he making, 7 million? florida doesn't have a big budget, and bertuzzi at that price for three more years is it? how many contracts of their current players (jokinen, huselius, bouwmeester, weiss, luongo etc..) will need new contracts at some point in that three year span. having a 7 million dollar player doesn't really help when you need to deal with loads of rfas in a possible climate that could include a salary cap. without bertuzzi, you're laughing financially, as bertuzzi's 7 million to horton's 1 million (i think) is 6 extra million you can lock up other players, as well as signing players coming up, such as anthony stewart, lukas krajicek, filip novak, kristian kudroc, eric beaudoin, juraj kolnik..etc..

it isn't a good risk to take right now pre cba negotiations, while also working with a mediocre budget team

Quote:
Originally Posted by quat
Just about any team in the league would be happy to add Bertuzzi to it's roster, and you are fooling yourself if you think otherwise.
i love it when people end their posts like this. well no **** sherlock any team would like to add a bertuzzi, but some can't or have to say no to keep their team together five years down the line

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Old
07-10-2004, 10:57 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora

ok, i worded my post poorly, but i didn't mean bertuzzi wouldn't improve them, but he won't improve them enough to give up three good young potential players, two with excellent potential similiar to bertuzzi while adding a huge salary, as well as adding an attitude on and off ice

Well, since I was only speaking to the Horton straight up for Bertuzzi comment, this has nothing to do with what I've been talking about.






oh that's nice, how will the leafs do next season, please i'm curious. you cannot just make a claim like that. ONE injury to a major player in florida, and because there aren't many, the team could sink.

Come on... when a team trades for a player I'm certain they aren't counting on him getting injured. I don't feel I need to preface comments with "if Bertuzzi doesn't get injured".

essentially your making this up, you came up with this not me

I used the Flames as an example, because you said the Panthers in the middle of rebuilding wouldn't sign a big contract. The Flames did that with Iginla and it would have paid off if they didn't even make the playoffs because he puts people in the seats. It was MY example but using your opinion as the frame work. I should have just asked you directly rather than worded it that way.


well what is he making, 7 million? florida doesn't have a big budget, and bertuzzi at that price for three more years is it? how many contracts of their current players (jokinen, huselius, bouwmeester, weiss, luongo etc..) will need new contracts at some point in that three year span. having a 7 million dollar player doesn't really help when you need to deal with loads of rfas in a possible climate that could include a salary cap. without bertuzzi, you're laughing financially, as bertuzzi's 7 million to horton's 1 million (i think) is 6 extra million you can lock up other players, as well as signing players coming up, such as anthony stewart, lukas krajicek, filip novak, kristian kudroc, eric beaudoin, juraj kolnik..etc..

Bertuzzi wins you games, and makes the Panthers a better team. When you win more games more people want to come watch them... buy stuff. That's my point... better players add more interest for the fans... it creats buzz. Why do they have to sign players coming up? They are already under contract and won't be signing again until Bertuzzi is likely gone... in the mean time you've grown your fan base substantially by having a competitive team thats got a player who dominates and is fun to watch.

it isn't a good risk to take right now pre cba negotiations, while also working with a mediocre budget team

Adding Bertuzzi isn't a risk. Unless he does something like smack Moore again.

i love it when people end their posts like this. well no **** sherlock any team would like to add a bertuzzi, but some can't or have to say no to keep their team together five years down the line

Well gee, I must have really offended you, so I'm sorry about that.

Maybe you think the Panther wouldn't trade for Bertuzzi and his salary tomorrow for Horton staight up, but I think they would. But to each his own.

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Old
07-10-2004, 11:19 PM
  #40
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Actually, I tend to think Keenan would give more than just Horton for Bertuzzi right now.

Not saying we should though. Horton is lousy return for Bertuzzi.

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Old
07-10-2004, 11:39 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Thompson
Horton is lousy return for Bertuzzi.
If the Canucks were rebuilding, Horton and a draft pick is great return for Bertuzzi IMO.

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Old
07-11-2004, 03:41 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
If the Canucks were rebuilding, Horton and a draft pick is great return for Bertuzzi IMO.
Exactly.

IF they were rebuilding.

Doing a trade like that would basically be saying "well, we're going to contend for years to come! We won't ever win it, but we'll always contend."

Assuming of course, that the trend continues and Horton gets dealt once some new young guy appears.


Last edited by Rotting Corpse*: 07-11-2004 at 03:46 AM.
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Old
07-11-2004, 09:15 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora
i'm pretty sure they wouldn't do the first part either. to trade two future big forwards with skill and a powerforward potential, not to mention being great friends, who both aren't even twenty is quite silly. sure it's the potential game, but florida isn't in any hurry to win a cup or to inject a huge salary into their budget.

it would be poor management..

That is why "Florida would not do it for team balance reasons. Florida suck now, and will suck for a few more years and Bertuzzi won't change that. So why trade for him with players that will help them when they are ready (3 years)."

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Old
07-11-2004, 11:16 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
If the Canucks were rebuilding, Horton and a draft pick is great return for Bertuzzi IMO.
But we aren't rebuilding, are we?

Honestly, even for Bertuzzi and even if we were rebuilding, I'm not sure that'd be great return. With a guy like Bertuzzi though, there's no need to rebuild.

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07-11-2004, 05:16 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora
to trade two future big forwards with skill and a powerforward potential, not to mention being great friends,
Great friends?

Sorry andora, I'm going to disagree with you here.

Anthony Stewart and Nathan Horton got into two fights in the OHL, with Stewart coming away victorious both times and giving Horton a concussion to really hurt his season in 2002-03. These two have always been extremely heated whenever they've played against each other, and as a person who has met Anthony Stewart and hung out with him on several occasions, I can tell you he is not overly fond of Horton. And that's putting it in a PG-rated way.

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Old
07-11-2004, 07:51 PM
  #46
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hmm.. i just remember that whole thing at the draft two years back about how they were friends, and how competetive they were, atleast that's how i remember it. i remember them doing a whole little story about what this could turn into for florida, having these two friends.. i obviously take your word for this, but it's amazing that stuff they were doing... had me convinced anyway..

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Old
07-12-2004, 10:39 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman
To Florida:
Bertuzzi, Cloutier, Salo, Malik

To Vancouver:
Luongo, Horton, Mezie, Stewart

Comments.

As a Canuck fan I love the trade
#

but--When I was living in Ft LAuderdale--Luongo is this only thing selling hockey down there and Bertuzzi was even burned in effigy downt here for what he did

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