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Brooks: Elias Must Go...

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Old
11-16-2008, 02:05 PM
  #26
Eric Sachs
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other then Parise Elias is still the number 2 guy i feel comfortable with the puck on his stick with the game on the line.

Larry Brooks is a ****ing moron. I think worse then Eklund. I severely doubt he ever watches hockey judging by some of his articles. I think he just looks at box scores and forms stupid gibberish only fitting for the New york Post.

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11-16-2008, 02:09 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJD00 View Post
Whether you like him or not, no denying this is an insightful and fair assessment of Elias's game and the Devils' current predicament...

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11162008...lia_138921.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJD00 View Post
That 60-70 points is accepted as FINE for a $6m/year player, who once was a franchise forward and USED TO dominate the Rangers is what is baffling...sure, you don't trade him for a bag of pucks, but there's no doubting that 60-70 points for this guy is KILLING the devils, if, as other posters have said, he is "one of the two" skilled forwards on this team!! He is counted on to score goals and hasn't done so on a consistent basis for 4 years!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnDaMark View Post
I dislike Brooks like everyone else but he is right Elias hasn't and isn't performing as he should. I blame Lou for this. Elias always needed a center and wing that could skate, pass and gain position. Lou has never acquired the right players to play with Elias. So the result is Lou is stuck with the contract he made with Elias and Lou is the loser. Elias is the winner financially.
I applaud you all for not taking the easy way out and automatically criticizing a very fair analysis by the usually looney Brooks.

He makes sense in this one.

Unfortunately for most Devils fans, Patrik Elias is above criticism based on what he did years ago and he is still basically untouchable as he remains one of the more popular players among fans.

Anyone who dares says anything negative about him is usually promptly criticized.

It's easier for most fans here to blame Sutter, Clarkson, Gionta, injuries, etc. before they dare say anything negative about Patrik Elias.

There are many problems with this team and yes, heaven forbid, even Patrik Elias is one of them.

I have been one of his biggest critics, but I eased up on him last season as he lit up Henrik Lundqvist (and indeed made him look stupid) in the regular season and in the playoffs. He is valuable to this team (despite the criminality of his performance as related to salary) in being the only player to show up against the NYR.

Well, show up some of the time that is.

At least Gionta's contract comes off the books after this year as he will become an UFA, but in the meantime, we are stuck with Elias' extremely expensive albatross of a contract for a long, long time.

And worst of all, we still can't beat the NYR, even if Patrik Elias decides to show up.


Last edited by Muttley*: 11-16-2008 at 02:17 PM.
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11-16-2008, 02:12 PM
  #28
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Elias falling off frustrates me, but there's nothing we can do about it.

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11-16-2008, 02:31 PM
  #29
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Just wait til Rolston comes back...That should help Elias's production. Rolston might even be better than Elias at this point in their careers.

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11-16-2008, 02:31 PM
  #30
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Brooks is a ******. He can go suck it.

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11-16-2008, 02:33 PM
  #31
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11-16-2008, 02:36 PM
  #32
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does anyone watch these games? elias should have like 3 or 4 more goals right now, and if he had consistent linemates he would hav emore points. parise is getting lucky with a few goals (i know luck is a byproduct of effort) but elias has been working hard just not getting some bounces

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11-16-2008, 02:41 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
does anyone watch these games? elias should have like 3 or 4 more goals right now, and if he had consistent linemates he would hav emore points. parise is getting lucky with a few goals (i know luck is a byproduct of effort) but elias has been working hard just not getting some bounces
I will say most of the goals Elias has scored so far have been very nice looking goals. None of those cheap garbage goals. So I'll take that as a positive. That blast he had last night that jsut went right through Theodore just shows he still has it.


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11-16-2008, 02:46 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muttley View Post
I applaud you all for not taking the easy way out and automatically criticizing a very fair analysis by the usually looney Brooks.

He makes sense in this one.
I'm calling you out, Muttley. Defend Brooks' analysis as fair and sensible. The crux of Brooks' argument is that Elias has been invisible. I'd love to hear how a player who is ranked 14th in the league with shots on net (that's 66, tied with Evgeni Malkin and Scott Gomez, and only 6 behind Parise) "hasn't shown up" this season. Especially when he's been the team's best forward in their two most recent games. I'd also love to hear how the Devils would benefit trading Elias, leaving Parise as the sole truly skilled forward on a team that is rather starved for offense.

Also, we don't automatically criticize Brooks because it's about Elias - people generally criticize because they don't think the initial point is right. I know, it astounds you, but most of us just happen to think Brooks is wrong. Rather than lament about the team's loss to the Rangers, I'd love to hear how trading Elias would be a good idea. You think Brooks makes sense, how about actually explaining as such instead of grousing about the board?

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11-16-2008, 02:46 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devilzrule27 View Post
I will say all of the goals Elias has scored so far have been very nice looking goals. None of those cheap garbage goals. So I'll take that as a positive. That blast he had last night that jsut went right through Theodore just shows he still has it.
Well, one of last night's goals for Elias was a pure garbage goal, but he worked hard for it (as did Zajac, who made the nice play to kick it over). Early in the year he had some lucky-ish goals but more recently he has played slightly more like the Patrik Elias we know (both the good - the confidence mixed with some physicality, and the bad - the overcomplicated plays that his teammates don't click with). His contract is bleh, but he's still a good player. Just not a definite first line player anymore, which is going to count against him given his salary.

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11-16-2008, 02:50 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakitate304 View Post
Well, one of last night's goals for Elias was a pure garbage goal, but he worked hard for it (as did Zajac, who made the nice play to kick it over). Early in the year he had some lucky-ish goals but more recently he has played slightly more like the Patrik Elias we know (both the good - the confidence mixed with some physicality, and the bad - the overcomplicated plays that his teammates don't click with). His contract is bleh, but he's still a good player. Just not a definite first line player anymore, which is going to count against him given his salary.
im assuming you are talking about the one which it was a pp and he was on his stomach and hit it in woith the shaft of his stick, thats a smart play first of all to resist temptation to hit it in wioth your hand or something else, plus he worked for it. not to mention the fact that he drew a penalty to get that pp, he got hauled down on a beautiful steal of a bad outlet pass and was in alone on thedore

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Old
11-16-2008, 03:00 PM
  #37
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I think elias has played well, but honestly he has been so snake bitten, the past couple years he could have easily had 15 more goals with a little luck, I can't remember how many times I've seen him look up into the sky after getting robbed.

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Old
11-16-2008, 03:02 PM
  #38
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It still boggles my mind that some of you actually bother to read the Post's articles about the Devils.

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11-16-2008, 03:05 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilFisch View Post
I'm calling you out, Muttley. Defend Brooks' analysis as fair and sensible. The crux of Brooks' argument is that Elias has been invisible. I'd love to hear how a player who is ranked 14th in the league with shots on net (that's 66, tied with Evgeni Malkin and Scott Gomez, and only 6 behind Parise) "hasn't shown up" this season. Especially when he's been the team's best forward in their two most recent games. I'd also love to hear how the Devils would benefit trading Elias, leaving Parise as the sole truly skilled forward on a team that is rather starved for offense.

Also, we don't automatically criticize Brooks because it's about Elias - people generally criticize because they don't think the initial point is right. I know, it astounds you, but most of us just happen to think Brooks is wrong.
Come on, are we really going to use this stat to try to defend Patrik Elias?

This is exactly along the subjective lines of the plus/minus argument: If a player you are defending has a decent + rating, be sure to bring it up as a positive. But if this same player has a poor negaitive rating, totally marginalize it and use the "oh but the plus/minus stat is not always indicative of what happens on the ice" excuse.

Patrik Elias was given this huge contract to play the way did in the early 2000's and especially that 4 month period from January through February 2006.

This is udisputable


Based on what was just said above, either you accept the fact that Elias has been absolutely underperforming....or you deny this fact and blame everyting/everybody else, from line changes, coaching, or whatever is the flavor of the week excuse.

There are 3 schools of thought going on here:

1) Accept Patrik Elias for being an overpaid underperformer and deal with it.

2) Spin the roullette wheel and try to get Elias a Center that will help him return to his old form. We already tried every line change possible with this current roster and we don't know what effect Rolston will have on Elias yet. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

3) Acknowledge that yes, he played better with Scott Gomez and Jason Arnott and will most likely never return to that form with this current roster of Devils forwards and perhaps could use a change of scenery. But since Gomez & Arnott are most likely never comming back, perhaps it is finally the time (for the benefit of everyone) to grant him his wish of playing with what appears to be a good match of playing with his friend Havlat.

I tend to fall along the likes of the 3rd option, which is what Brooks is alluding to and I am in agreement with him.

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11-16-2008, 03:05 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsFan38 View Post
It still boggles my mind that some of you actually bother to read the Post's articles about the Devils.
It's fun mindless drivel that always gets discussion goin' lady.

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11-16-2008, 03:05 PM
  #41
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Elias probably voted for Obama. New York Post has a Murdoch skew of things.

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11-16-2008, 03:07 PM
  #42
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@Muttley

So what your saying is... trade for Havlat. I'm down for it as long as we dont give much up.

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11-16-2008, 03:09 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muttley View Post
Come on, are we really going to use this stat to try to defend Patrik Elias?

This is exactly along the subjective lines of the plus/minus argument: If a player you are defending has a decent + rating, be sure to bring it up as a positive. But if this same player has a poor negaitive rating, totally marginalize it and use the "oh but the plus/minus stat is not always indicative of what happens on the ice" excuse.

Patrik Elias was given this huge contract to play the way did in the early 2000's and especially that 4 month period from January through February 2006.

This is udisputable


Based on what was just said above, either you accept the fact that Elias has been absolutely underperforming....or you deny this fact and blame everyting/everybody else, from line changes, coaching, or whatever is the flavor of the week excuse.

There are 3 schools of thought going on here:

1) Accept Patrik Elias for being an overpaid underperformer and deal with it.

2) Spin the roullette wheel and try to get Elias a Center that will help him return to his old form. We already tried every line change possible with this current roster and we don't know what effect Rolston will have on Elias yet. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

3) Acknowledge that yes, he played better with Scott Gomez and Jason Arnott and will most likely never return to that form with this current roster of Devils forwards and perhaps could use a change of scenery. But since Gomez & Arnott are most likely never comming back, perhaps it is finally the time (for the benefit of everyone) to grant him his wish of playing with what appears to be a good match of playing with his friend Havlat.

I tend to fall along the likes of the 3rd option, which is what Brooks is alluding to and I am in agreement with him.
You didn't answer his questions. Yet another Muttley spin.

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11-16-2008, 03:10 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muttley View Post
Come on, are we really going to use this stat to try to defend Patrik Elias?

This is exactly along the subjective lines of the plus/minus argument: If a player you are defending has a decent + rating, be sure to bring it up as a positive. But if this same player has a poor negaitive rating, totally marginalize it and use the "oh but the plus/minus stat is not always indicative of what happens on the ice" excuse.

Patrik Elias was given this huge contract to play the way did in the early 2000's and especially that 4 month period from January through February 2006.

This is udisputable


Based on what was just said above, either you accept the fact that Elias has been absolutely underperforming....or you deny this fact and blame everyting/everybody else, from line changes, coaching, or whatever is the flavor of the week excuse.

There are 3 schools of thought going on here:

1) Accept Patrik Elias for being an overpaid underperformer and deal with it.

2) Spin the roullette wheel and try to get Elias a Center that will help him return to his old form. We already tried every line change possible with this current roster and we don't know what effect Rolston will have on Elias yet. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

3) Acknowledge that yes, he played better with Scott Gomez and Jason Arnott and will most likely never return to that form with this current roster of Devils forwards and perhaps could use a change of scenery. But since Gomez & Arnott are most likely never comming back, perhaps it is finally the time (for the benefit of everyone) to grant him his wish of playing with what appears to be a good match of playing with his friend Havlat.

I tend to fall along the likes of the 3rd option, which is what Brooks is alluding to and I am in agreement with him.
I'm fairly certain that's one school of thought in 3 parts. Please make necessary revisions.

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11-16-2008, 03:12 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devilzrule27 View Post
@Muttley

So what your saying is... trade for Havlat. I'm down for it as long as we dont give much up.
That has been brought up here before, along with bringing back Arnott somehow, but there is no way we can afford to have Havlat and have the cap room to spend to improve our defense.

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11-16-2008, 03:13 PM
  #46
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Barker and Havlat and get rid of excess weight.

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11-16-2008, 03:16 PM
  #47
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first of all, these "articles" are complete crap, its more comedy than anything.

...but as far as elias goes....with the size of his contract, he should be showing more for it so im glad hes been pushing extra hard this season and recently especially. i would say zubrus is underperforming stat/contract wise if u wanna get technical about it, but u cant say the guy isnt playing hard. and while he does sometimes get a free ride because hes playing hard, the simple fact is he really needs to get on the scoreboard more because clarkson is more offensive(ugh) lately(kill me now). anyways, back to elias, hes similar to zubrus but he is miles ahead of him talent wise thankfully. but elias seriously needs 2 things, to get his consistency back(up to him) and get him players that facilitate his creative game(up to lou). he still plays sometimes like sykora is waiting behind him for a sneaky behind the back pass, and hes loooong gone. i want patty to succeed here because he easily can, but he needs better linemates. id be willing to say to try and recreate the A-line because that might be what is necessary in order to maximize his production on a consistent basis. so not only would a #1 dman be what this team is craving, an arnott type center is something also really necessary if u wanna see patty return to form. really wish lou got jokinen or even marleau this off season as it wouldve atleast completed part of the elias puzzle.

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11-16-2008, 03:19 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devilzrule27 View Post
Barker and Havlat and get rid of excess weight.
I'm all with getting Barker, to go along with the theme of other thread. But we would have to resign Havlat to a new contract as he already makes $6 million now and will command more.

You have Gionta's $4 million off the books and you still have to deal with Madden. Not to mention I am a big advocate for going after Bouwmeester this summer. I'm not sure we have the cap room.

And I'm not sure what my stalker is referring to about me "not answering the question".

If the question is if I agree with the fact the Elias has been "invisible" since signing that big contract in 2006, yes I would be in total agreement with this assesment.

So there it is. The question is anwered.

Elias is invisible.

If this answer angers you, stop being immature and deal with it.

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11-16-2008, 03:27 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Muttley View Post
I'm all with getting Barker, to go along with the theme of other thread. But we would have to resign Havlat to a new contract as he already makes $6 million now and will command more.

You have Gionta's $4 million off the books and you still have to deal with Madden. Not to mention I am a big advocate for going after Bouwmeester this summer. I'm not sure we have the cap room.

And I'm not sure what my stalker is referring to about me "not answering the question".

If the question is if I agree with the fact the Elias has been "invisible" since signing that big contract in 2006, yes I would be in total agreement with this assesment.

So there it is. The question is anwered.

Elias is invisible.

If this answer angers you, stop being immature and deal with it.
I don't think Havlat is getting that contract again. I think he may be expecting 5 million tops. Regardless it will most certainly be a short term(2 years 3 max) deal because of his health.

If we go after J-Bouw then throw this all out the window and see what Havlat wants in the offseason with gio off the books. Even if we just go after J-Bouw we are looking at shedding the excess weight and by that i don't think its Elias i'm thinking its more some overpaid dmen and what not. If we got rid of Elias and picked up J-bouw we would still have many problems. While our defence is average at best and on most nights below average we struggle at scoring. The only two guys that are scoring are Parise and Elias. Get rid of Elias and we pretty much have nothing and have to pray that we have an elite scorer waitinf in the wings in the farm.

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11-16-2008, 03:28 PM
  #50
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Where does this team get goals outside of the Zach attack line if there's no Elias? Elias is not only the best scorer on the team outside of Parise, he is far and away the team's best playmaker.

$6M is not a lot of money to have an offense that isn't completely one-dimensional. Not to mention he's the most clutch player on the team and provides veteran experience and leadership.

Anyone that says they're dissatisfied with Elias' play is just playing contrarian for the sake of playing contrarian.

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