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Old
11-16-2008, 12:18 PM
  #26
HSHS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgh32 View Post
There's good arguments on both sides of dealing Nyls. If he's traded at this point, I just hope Jurcina goes with him.

Whether you like him or feel that he can contribute to this team, his contract is too fat for the Caps right now. It's not a good thing to have zero cap wiggle room as you head through the season.
Agreed if Sopel comes then Jurcina can go. Sopel is the replacement RH shot.

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11-16-2008, 12:19 PM
  #27
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Just for giggles...

Ovie - Backstrom - Semin
Flash - Fedorov - Kozlov
Byfuglien - Laich - Fehr/Clark
Brashear - Gordon/Steckel - Bradley

Green - Alzner
Poti - Schultz
Erskine - Morrisonn/Sloan

or


Ovie - Backstrom - Semin
Flash - Fedorov - Kozlov
Laich - Steckel - Fehr/Clark
Brashear - Gordon - Bradley

Green - Alzner
Poti - Sloan/Erskine
Sopel - Morrisonn

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11-16-2008, 12:20 PM
  #28
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For what it's worth, I still think he is a decent player. I just think the team feels he is a luxury they don't really need.

He isn't playing real well right now, and hasn't found a ton of chemistry with his linemates (though I did think he was doing ok centering Flash...) and when he did play with Ovechkin in preseason and camp in the past, it wasn't the fit people thought it would be.

As far as Nylander not fitting the system, that's baloney. Bruce is a puck possession game where he asks his players to always attack. Nylander's whole game is puck possession. The problem is, he doesn't create enough with the guys he has played with (Clark just being downright awful is some of it) nor is he defensively responsible or physical enough to retrieve the puck if need be.

In a perfect world, there would be no cap and having a guy ride the 3rd line, provide that depth and step up when need be would work just fine. But this team has serious flaws and sees itself as a contender. Not just an also ran who makes the playoffs. Keeping Nylander might be a method to do that, but the problem is, their defense is what is killing them right now.

I think they can score enough and carry the burden enough to remove Nylander from the equation and still be ok.

I think the thing that needs to be remembered when we talk about Nylander and acquiring him is he was brought in to be a Number 1 center. That was the objective, and he is getting paid Number 1 money (not Spezza money, Vinny money or Big Joe money) but good money to be a point per game+ pivot on the top line. At worst, he should be on line 1B, with Semin. Yet, Fedorov has outplayed him to date by a significant margin. Couple that with the fact that Backstrom is already one of the best centers in the league when in shape and not hurt, and Nylander's contract is difficult at best to justify.

I still think signing him was a good thing. He is a good player. But the problem is, he is outplayed by two guys who can do his role and mesh better with the team.

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11-16-2008, 12:26 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strungout View Post
Just for giggles...

Ovie - Backstrom - Semin
Flash - Fedorov - Kozlov
Byfuglien - Laich - Fehr/Clark
Brashear - Gordon/Steckel - Bradley

Green - Alzner
Poti - Schultz
Erskine - Morrisonn/Sloan

or


Ovie - Backstrom - Semin
Flash - Fedorov - Kozlov
Laich - Steckel - Fehr/Clark
Brashear - Gordon - Bradley

Green - Alzner
Poti - Sloan/Erskine
Sopel - Morrisonn
He's a D-man.

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Old
11-16-2008, 12:26 PM
  #30
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Flash's progression can lead one to believe that he can be a second line player for us. That does indeed free up Laich to go back to center duties as strungs lineup proposes. It amazes me how much control Flash seems to have over our lineup. Graduating a scoring line wing from Hershey is long overdue.

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Old
11-16-2008, 12:29 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by XDC-RES View Post
He's a D-man.
no he's not.

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Old
11-16-2008, 12:29 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strungout View Post
But but but....I thought center depth was key! I thought Nylander was nearly a point per game player! This was unthinkable!! Trade Nylander?! Bah!!

Nah...I'm not rubbing it in or anything.
Hey, you haven't heard me say I want him traded. I've said I think he's played poorly and he looks totally out of it so I wouldn't be surprised if he is traded.

Personally, what I find troubling about this team is that during this winning streak only 1 line has been producing. While its exciting to see a SOB line generate ridculous offense. Thats a big problem.

They need at a minimum two lines that can score, and if they want to go deep in the playoffs they need to roll three lines who can create offense.

Personally, I would not trade Nylander yet and wait to see if you can generate some balanced offense amongst the different lines. Its only been 20 games into the season. I'd do the lines this way when we get Feds and Semin healthy.

Ovy -Backstrom - Kozlov/Laich
Semin - Feds - Clark
Flash - Nylander - Laich/Kozlov
Brash - Stecks - Brads

Ovy and Backstrom are back to scoring regualrly with or without Semin so Kozzie and Laich would be good fits on their wing. There's no need to overload the 1st line. Spread it out.

Clark is not going to stop a Semin line from scoring no matter how slow he is, since Feds and Semin have been a consistent offensive threat all season.

And Nylander who I think has worked will with Flash all season would really benefit from having a either Laich or Kozlov on his line for more than 1 game.

I just think despite his lethargic play if you don't surround an offensive center with guys who can generate offense (I am talking about Clark) there is only so much he can do.

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Old
11-16-2008, 12:32 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDC-RES View Post
He's a D-man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsjustsurvival View Post
no he's not.
ok lets just get this straight. he was a monstrous 260 pound defenseman, lost some weight and had a good season on defense, then got moved to forward.

look at Brent Burns, drafted as a forward, turned to a defenseman in junior, played RW for MIN his rookie year, then played defense, now playing wing again.

so really, Byfuglien will play wherever the **** Bruce tells him to play.

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11-16-2008, 12:35 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsjustsurvival View Post
no he's not.
Checked the Hawks site and you're right, he's a RW. He used to be a D-man though wasn't he?

Edit: TY Bottle.

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Old
11-16-2008, 12:45 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
But this team has serious flaws and sees itself as a contender. Not just an also ran who makes the playoffs. Keeping Nylander might be a method to do that, but the problem is, their defense is what is killing them right now.

I think they can score enough and carry the burden enough to remove Nylander from the equation and still be ok.
I totally agree with this assessment here. The defense is the achilles heel of this team. I would be fine with trading Nylander if it could somehow ensure we would be able to bring in an actual top 4 defenseman.

My feeling is a trade of Nylander could bring that in one of two ways 1) an actual trade bringing in a player of that caliber or 2) freeing up cap space to make a subsequent trade that could acquire that type player. I think the latter of the two is much more likely.

Personally, I want to see some combination of Mo, Fehr and 1st rounder shipped out to bring in that type of player.

A guy like Sopel is nice but is he legitamately that a real stud top 4 guy? I don't know about that but I am sure this will play itself out come trade deadline time.

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Old
11-16-2008, 01:05 PM
  #36
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I would say that Nylander has not given a green light to the trade process as its not usually the way it works. Why involve the player when there is not guarentee of having to get that far?

On the other hand Nylander has appeared to coast in recent games and that tells me that something is up.

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11-16-2008, 01:17 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bottleCAPS View Post
ok lets just get this straight. he was a monstrous 260 pound defenseman, lost some weight and had a good season on defense, then got moved to forward.

look at Brent Burns, drafted as a forward, turned to a defenseman in junior, played RW for MIN his rookie year, then played defense, now playing wing again.

so really, Byfuglien will play wherever the **** Bruce tells him to play.
Yeah I know. But he really has not played much in terms of defense since mid season last year, meaning his good season was split between the two positions. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about some versatility, I just think he is still predominantly a forward and would best utilized on offense, at least for the Caps.

Just my opinion.

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Old
11-16-2008, 01:27 PM
  #38
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I am not thrilled about bringing another defenseman in a potential Nyls deal. Its time to see what we have in house and ease the backlog. I think the main objective to moving Nylander is to free up cap space but I may be wrong. Sure we will get some value back, but that is not our goal.

We need to bring up Alzner and stop bringing in other teams mediocre Dmen. We are defense deep in our farm system, let's try them out. Hording too many D has its eventual drawback unless you move some.

Move Nylander squeak Juice into the deal both for a top prospect center or winger. Our farm doesnt produce many top centers or wingers. I dunno; back to football

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Old
11-16-2008, 01:39 PM
  #39
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I don't know, while I do think we're defense deep in the farm system (we've certainly got a lot of players with potential) the Caps seem to be taking the if they draft or acquire enough of them, they certainly are going to end up having some turn out good.


Though, Alzner aside, they've been smart using late firsts, 2nds and mid round picks in accumulating their prospect pools on the defense. Most are pretty interesting, and I wouldn't be shocked if most at least get a cup of coffee at the NHL level. But beyond Alzner, I don't think there's a stud who is a sure fire bet to be a top end defenseman. Note: I do think Carlson will show that with a good WJC performance, a continued great showing in the OHL and the maturation of his game. But like all defensemen, he will hit a wall of some sort.

Irregardless of the stable they have or don't have down on the farm, I think the issue we also should consider is what will the roster look like in 2-3 years time? Most of the money the team spends is going to be up front on Ovechkin, Backstrom, and then of an offensive caliber on the backend with Green. Semin's probably here as well, but that's not as sure. I could fathom a day when 24-25 million of the cap is eaten up by just those 4 players. With that said, they better be getting some serious value from some area. They probably intend on doing so on the backend by having 2 or 3 young, entry level or 3rd-4th year guys play solid minutes on the blueline. Now, they're going to have to surround them with some quality vets to ease things over, but 1.75 for a good young defenseman won't hurt the cap at all. Offensively, you'll be able to get by with that foursome and one or two other servicable young players. Plus the added bonus is, young defensemen are probably the most valuable commodity outside of the pick and a prospect deals at trade deadlines. Every team wouldn't mind a good young defensive prospect or two.

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Old
11-16-2008, 01:57 PM
  #40
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Byfugly would be great on the Caps!

Young, versatile, up-tempo and talented.

I'd be somewhat shocked if McPhee pulled it off.

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11-16-2008, 02:05 PM
  #41
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Let's be realistic. We are not going to get a legitimate 1st/2nd line forward for Nylander. We certainly are not going to get another 1st/2nd line center.

I don't see how we get anyone for Nylander who improves our team. Trading Nylander does create cap room for Alzner, but I don't think we are a better team with Alzner vs. Nylander+Sloan, especially with Fedorov out periodically. And let's not forget that we are slowly building cap room for Alzner anyway, even without trading Nylander; we just won't have it for another two months.

Fedorov is out now and could be out for many more games this season. If you trade Nylander, and Fedorov is out, that forces you to put Laich at center and takes away the one player on the team who has been effective at screening opposing goaltenders. Clark is no longer effective in that role.

Do you all really want to take the chance of playing much of this season (and potentially all of next season) with Backstrom, Laich, Steckel, and Gordon as our four centers? In the playoffs? Offensive production from the Steckel and Gordon lines has essentially been non-existant. Steckel has been on the ice for 4 ES goals scored and 5 ES goals allowed. Gordon has been on the ice for 6 ES goals scored and 4 ES goals allowed.

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Old
11-16-2008, 02:11 PM
  #42
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If the Capitals actually trade Nylander, all they need is cap space. If there is room for a top 6 forward, they clearly want to get Bourque in the lineup. They would likely want the flexibility to start using Alzner after the first of the year.

Then after seeing what the injuries look like and what the developement of the roster looks like, McPhee will have the cap space to land a rental or two to fill the voids.

The Caps don't need a roster player.

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Old
11-16-2008, 02:17 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backstrom #19 View Post
Can't Chicago just send Khabibulin to the AHL until they find somebody to trade him to, and he won't count against their cap? If Chicago wants Nylander bad enough that's a solution.
Well Khabibulin has played amazing this year! If you want Nylander gone why dont you waive him and send him to AHL and buy him out at end of next year?

Probably because it makes no sense! That is exactly what sending Khabibulin to minors would do!

You are not getting Byfuglien so if that is what the Caps are after then these talks aren't going anywhere!

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11-16-2008, 02:18 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
If the Capitals actually trade Nylander, all they need is cap space. If there is room for a top 6 forward, they clearly want to get Bourque in the lineup. They would likely want the flexibility to start using Alzner after the first of the year.

Then after seeing what the injuries look like and what the developement of the roster looks like, McPhee will have the cap space to land a rental or two to fill the voids.

The Caps don't need a roster player.
Nylander has trade value, imo.

He's not playing well, but he's still a 60-70 pt top 2 C with a contract that gets more palatable in the final years.

He's nowhere near "dump" territory and the thought would have been ridiculous a few weeks ago.

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11-16-2008, 02:21 PM
  #45
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I would absolutely love this deal. He can play f and d, he's fast, great forechecker, strong, and has good offensive instincts.

At this point I'd take a pick and prospect as well for Nyls. Aliu or Beech please.


Hawks would give you Evan Brophey for Nylander not Aliu or our #1 prospect!

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11-16-2008, 02:43 PM
  #46
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Let's be realistic. We are not going to get a legitimate 1st/2nd line forward for Nylander. We certainly are not going to get another 1st/2nd line center.

I don't see how we get anyone for Nylander who improves our team. Trading Nylander does create cap room for Alzner, but I don't think we are a better team with Alzner vs. Nylander+Sloan, especially with Fedorov out periodically. And let's not forget that we are slowly building cap room for Alzner anyway, even without trading Nylander; we just won't have it for another two months.

Fedorov is out now and could be out for many more games this season. If you trade Nylander, and Fedorov is out, that forces you to put Laich at center and takes away the one player on the team who has been effective at screening opposing goaltenders. Clark is no longer effective in that role.

Do you all really want to take the chance of playing much of this season (and potentially all of next season) with Backstrom, Laich, Steckel, and Gordon as our four centers? In the playoffs? Offensive production from the Steckel and Gordon lines has essentially been non-existant. Steckel has been on the ice for 4 ES goals scored and 5 ES goals allowed. Gordon has been on the ice for 6 ES goals scored and 4 ES goals allowed.
That's probably not true. Our cap hit is probably exactly 56.7 mil since LTIR only provides relief to get you down to the cap. We probably aren't accumulating any space at all, which is why Sloan is up instead of Lepisto. If so then we won't be able to afford Alzner at all this year without a trade.

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11-16-2008, 02:48 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
That's probably not true. Our cap hit is probably exactly 56.7 mil since LTIR only provides relief to get you down to the cap. We probably aren't accumulating any space at all, which is why Sloan is up instead of Lepisto. If so then we won't be able to afford Alzner at all this year without a trade.
that's my interpretation of events as well.

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Old
11-16-2008, 03:09 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
That's probably not true. Our cap hit is probably exactly 56.7 mil since LTIR only provides relief to get you down to the cap. We probably aren't accumulating any space at all, which is why Sloan is up instead of Lepisto. If so then we won't be able to afford Alzner at all this year without a trade.
We built up some room before Sloan came up and that will continue when Sloan is sent down next week.

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11-16-2008, 03:15 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Well Khabibulin has played amazing this year! If you want Nylander gone why dont you waive him and send him to AHL and buy him out at end of next year?

Probably because it makes no sense! That is exactly what sending Khabibulin to minors would do!

You are not getting Byfuglien so if that is what the Caps are after then these talks aren't going anywhere!

No Movement Clause. Nylander can't be sent to the AHL.

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Old
11-16-2008, 03:17 PM
  #50
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We probably aren't accumulating any space at all, which is why Sloan is up instead of Lepisto. If so then we won't be able to afford Alzner at all this year without a trade.
I think Sloan is up because he fills a missing role for the Caps in light of Mo's injury...a big defensive defenseman. GMGM even discussed this last week on John Thompson show. I think Lepisto will likely get a call up if a guy like Green went down, with Poti becoming the primary offensive dman and Lepisto as a backup.

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