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Does Patrick really deserve the honor?

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Old
11-17-2008, 03:16 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Retiring Roy's number: YES

Retiring it this year: TOO EARLY

Retiring it on the eve of the Grey Cup in Montreal: classless !
How is that last part relevant at all?

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11-17-2008, 03:20 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Retiring Roy's number: YES

Retiring it this year: TOO EARLY

Retiring it on the eve of the Grey Cup in Montreal: classless !
Not disagreeing, but I would guess that was an oversight.

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11-17-2008, 03:33 PM
  #78
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Lots of people from the western provinces with plenty of money in their pockets will be in Montreal over the week end. The scalpers will have a field day. I have no problems with the Habs retiring Roy's jersey during Grey Cup week end. The games aren't on the same day anyway. The sun shines for everyone. Roy said they picked November 22nd because 11+22=33.

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11-17-2008, 03:34 PM
  #79
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*Not to self. Uninvite Kriss E and mcphee from the get-together I was organizing at my house.*

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11-17-2008, 04:02 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
How is that last part relevant at all?
Because these are three decisions made by the Hab's management about the same event.

They knew about the Grey Cup festivities and game in Montreal since months, if not over a year. Why choose THAT night ? There was no rush to retire his jersey.

All the media attention (most of it) will be on patrick and not on the biggest football game of the season in the CFL. On top of that, the Alouettes are gonna play it.

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11-17-2008, 04:11 PM
  #81
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As a hockey player, Roy deserves this honor.

As a human being, Roy deserves a kick in the face.

I hate the man and will not watch this ceremony. He didn't even have the decency to get a former Montreal teamate to introduce him. (I know Robinson didn't either, and this is wrong)

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11-17-2008, 04:12 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by AD View Post
*Not to self. Uninvite Kriss E and mcphee from the get-together I was organizing at my house.*
You kidding me?..I love the little bugger

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11-17-2008, 04:17 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Because these are three decisions made by the Hab's management about the same event.

They knew about the Grey Cup festivities and game in Montreal since months, if not over a year. Why choose THAT night ? There was no rush to retire his jersey.

All the media attention (most of it) will be on patrick and not on the biggest football game of the season in the CFL. On top of that, the Alouettes are gonna play it.
Well, I gotta admit that I just don't care. The CFL is irrelevant in my eyes, and probably in the Habs' eyes as well. A 30-minute pre-game ceremony for a past player isn't going to steal the spotlight from the Grey Cup, whatever it might be, because everyone in Montreal would have been watching the Habs game anyway.

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11-17-2008, 04:23 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You kidding me?..I love the little bugger
He's not little.

Well... his head is bigger anyway.

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11-17-2008, 04:33 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by rocketlives View Post
Can't agree more. First of all, Roy had an ordinary season in 1992-93 as shown by the team's stats in goal that year:

Patrick Roy: 62 - 31 -25 - 5 / win%: .540 - GAA: 3.20 - sav%: .894
Andre Racicot: 26 - 17 - 5 - 1 / win%: .673 - GAA: 3.39 - sav%: .881

Goaltending wasn't the Habs strong suit that season but we made the playoffs just the same because we had 2 solid dmen in Desjardins and Schneider, we had Guy Carbonneau who was in his prime centering our defensive line and also because we had a few high scoring forwards obtained in trades that year and the year before in Muller, Damphousse and Bellows. Furthermore, let's not forget John Leclair who was also a force in those series.

So, without taking anything away from Patrick, he didn't win it all by himself. It was a team effort as it always has to be. You have to be rolling on all cylinders to win a Stanley Cup.

I also have a copy of the 1993-94 Hockey News Yearbook here which makes the following comments about the 1993-94 Habs:

ROAD TO CUP WON'T BE AS ROSY THIS SEASON

"They could be the worst Stanley Cup winners ever. The survivor among four third-place teams to make the 1993 conference finals.

But who cares? The Montreal Canadiens won the Stanley Cup and they don't owe apologies to anyone. But they may have created expectations that are impossible to reach. By the end of the regular season, the Canadiens weren't even close to being the best team in the NHL and did not face a team better than they were in the final 3 rounds. It was a season where everything fell into place at the right time. It won't be that easy two seasons in a row."

Be that as it may, I still think that Patrick deserves the honor of having his jersey #33 up there with the others but, in this centennial year, I believe the team should have had other priorities. Lach and Bouchard were a must. These guys are giants in the history of the Montreal Canadiens and they might not be around much longer. Toe has already passed away and, at least, he was recognized as a coach.
Roy was known to elevate his game during the POs. Without his PO performances, we would have already forgotten about Roy.
His 151PO Win is a record I feel close to some of Gretzky's. It'll never be beaten. Brodeur has to win 3cups+win 2rounds in the next 4years to simply tie that record (this would make him 40 at the moment of this accomplishment). So it is impossible for Marty to beat it.
This is a legendary record.

You rarely win a cup thanks to one player, that's why it's so difficult to win the trophy. Not for nothing it's called a Team Sport.
He was phenomenal in both cup wins, if he was just good in 93, he wouldn't have won the Conn Smythe. Do you think Andre Racicot would have given us that cup in 93 too??..Come on.

Sure he had a good team in front of him, but who wins a Cup with a bad team in front of them?..Nobody.

As for the others that deserve it more. Let me ask you this, did Bob Gainey deserve the honor more so than Roy? More than Blake?..Lach?..Bouchard??

This is the centennial year, and today's habs fanbase is much younger. The organization have to appeal to them, retiring a jersey of our last true Superstar, the last player to lead us to 2Cups, makes a ton more sense than retiring the jersey of a player probably at least 50% of fans didn't even know was a hockey player.


Roy deserves the honor, there isn't a doubt behind that. Does he deserve it more than Lach/Blake, well that's debatable. But there's a bunch of players up there that didn't necessarily deserve it more than Lach/Blake/Bouchard either.
That's another debate though.


Last edited by Kriss E: 11-17-2008 at 04:41 PM.
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Old
11-17-2008, 04:34 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by AD View Post
He's not little.

Well... his head is bigger anyway.
That's cuz you haven't seen me

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11-17-2008, 04:37 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Because these are three decisions made by the Hab's management about the same event.

They knew about the Grey Cup festivities and game in Montreal since months, if not over a year. Why choose THAT night ? There was no rush to retire his jersey.

All the media attention (most of it) will be on patrick and not on the biggest football game of the season in the CFL. On top of that, the Alouettes are gonna play it.
Even if Roy's retirement jersey wasn't that night, we would have played vs the Bruins. After our loss to them, the coverage would be huge on that game no matter what.

Hockey is much bigger than the CFL. Most of the media coverage would have been on the game sat night no matter what.

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11-17-2008, 04:39 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by kovalev47 View Post
I disagree man. Roy was the main component of the team's success I feel. In the regular season Roy didn't care too much about winning. It was in the playoffs where he always elevated his play. With Roy in net the whole team was comfortable and knew Roy wouldn't let in the next goal no matter how many shots he faced. There won't be another goalie in NHL history that will come close to what Roy accomplished I feel. He definately should have his jersey retired.
This is where I have to react, when people go overboard in praise of Roy.

Patrick Roy did NOT "always" elevate his play in the playoffs. He had a poor playoff in 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, and 1992 and a pretty poor Stanley Cup Final in 1989.

Another poster mentioned that in two of those losses to Boston, they had more points in the regular season. The problem is, you can't fool me with statistics. I am old enough to have seen those playoffs and young enough to still remember them. There were MANY embarassing goals scored against Roy in those Boston series, and the regular season point totals have nothing to do with that.

Every summer, when the NHL Network replays many of the 80s and 90s playoff series, I get to re-live those awful nights over and over again.

I suggest that those who think that St. Patrick "always" elevated his play in the playoffs, especially in his stint in Montreal, take the time to watch those series next summer. Keep a barf bowl handy, however.

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11-17-2008, 05:16 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
This is where I have to react, when people go overboard in praise of Roy.

Patrick Roy did NOT "always" elevate his play in the playoffs. He had a poor playoff in 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, and 1992 and a pretty poor Stanley Cup Final in 1989.

Another poster mentioned that in two of those losses to Boston, they had more points in the regular season. The problem is, you can't fool me with statistics. I am old enough to have seen those playoffs and young enough to still remember them. There were MANY embarassing goals scored against Roy in those Boston series, and the regular season point totals have nothing to do with that.

Every summer, when the NHL Network replays many of the 80s and 90s playoff series, I get to re-live those awful nights over and over again.

I suggest that those who think that St. Patrick "always" elevated his play in the playoffs, especially in his stint in Montreal, take the time to watch those series next summer. Keep a barf bowl handy, however.
You don't get to the finals by playing poorly PO goaltending. Vernon was phenomenal during that serie. That hardly makes Roy's PO performance poor.

Roy always played better during PO, you know that. Does it mean he always played good in POs, nope.

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11-17-2008, 05:20 PM
  #90
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yes of course.

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11-17-2008, 05:36 PM
  #91
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Should be retired but why so soon? they let BOom Boom wait forever.

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11-17-2008, 05:37 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by dutchy29 View Post
Should be retired but why so soon? they let BOom Boom wait forever.
I don't know, theres this big celebration thing going on, not sure if you heard anything about it...

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11-17-2008, 06:26 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by dutchy29 View Post
Should be retired but why so soon? they let BOom Boom wait forever.
so, they should wait until he's dying ?

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11-17-2008, 06:33 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
This is where I have to react, when people go overboard in praise of Roy.

Patrick Roy did NOT "always" elevate his play in the playoffs. He had a poor playoff in 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, and 1992 and a pretty poor Stanley Cup Final in 1989.

Another poster mentioned that in two of those losses to Boston, they had more points in the regular season. The problem is, you can't fool me with statistics. I am old enough to have seen those playoffs and young enough to still remember them. There were MANY embarassing goals scored against Roy in those Boston series, and the regular season point totals have nothing to do with that.

Every summer, when the NHL Network replays many of the 80s and 90s playoff series, I get to re-live those awful nights over and over again.

I suggest that those who think that St. Patrick "always" elevated his play in the playoffs, especially in his stint in Montreal, take the time to watch those series next summer. Keep a barf bowl handy, however.

We both saw his entire career. There was always the feeling that something 'could' happen if he got on a roll. 86 did it. After that, there was always a chance. Now we both remember disapointing games, games like Cam Neely from outside the blueline, which btw, was 3 games after the legend grew bigger after the appendectomy.

I'm fine with it this year, they plan a year long celebration, so why not do it this year ? I agree that he didn't always play as the legend suggests, and I agree with Darz regarding 93, but being the most prominent guy during 2 cup runs, I have no problem.

Keep in mind that his last one here was 15 years ago, so a lot of the younger posters didn't see every game, every year. I know what I remember at 10, and while I can recall stuff, I can't argue Hodge vs. Worlsey with any substance.

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11-17-2008, 06:44 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Keep in mind that his last one here was 15 years ago, so a lot of the younger posters didn't see every game, every year. I know what I remember at 10, and while I can recall stuff, I can't argue Hodge vs. Worlsey with any substance.
Worsley over Hodge any day. I remember Hodge fearing Bobby Hull's slap shot so much, he once withdrew his glove and let a goal in just to avoid the pain of catching it.


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11-17-2008, 06:45 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
We both saw his entire career. There was always the feeling that something 'could' happen if he got on a roll. 86 did it. After that, there was always a chance. Now we both remember disapointing games, games like Cam Neely from outside the blueline, which btw, was 3 games after the legend grew bigger after the appendectomy.

I'm fine with it this year, they plan a year long celebration, so why not do it this year ? I agree that he didn't always play as the legend suggests, and I agree with Darz regarding 93, but being the most prominent guy during 2 cup runs, I have no problem.

Keep in mind that his last one here was 15 years ago, so a lot of the younger posters didn't see every game, every year. I know what I remember at 10, and while I can recall stuff, I can't argue Hodge vs. Worlsey with any substance.
I am somewhat indifferent about the Roy honor. Roy had a bittersweet career with the Habs and there will always be an asterix next to his name. Lafleur went through tough times at the end of his career but he exited with class. I always felt that there was a crass element to his personality so I have a hard time feeling excited about Saturday.

Ultimately, I sense the Habs brass wanted a big splash for the next sweater retiring evening and I don't think they thought Butch Bouchard would have the same impact on this 100th year push. Roy is still fresh in many fans mind.

BTW McPhee, are you going to Dylan tomorrow night?

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11-17-2008, 06:49 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Because these are three decisions made by the Hab's management about the same event.

They knew about the Grey Cup festivities and game in Montreal since months, if not over a year. Why choose THAT night ? There was no rush to retire his jersey.

All the media attention (most of it) will be on patrick and not on the biggest football game of the season in the CFL. On top of that, the Alouettes are gonna play it.
Who the **** cares? The NHL has nothing to do with the CFL and vise versa.

In fact this probably makes it a very exciting weekend to be in Montreal. A huge game against a rival with the greatest goalie ever coming back to the city and being honoured. Then the Grey Cup.

I don't see how either takes away from the other. And if it did, what does it matter?

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11-17-2008, 07:14 PM
  #98
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I am somewhat indifferent about the Roy honor. Roy had a bittersweet career with the Habs and there will always be an asterix next to his name. Lafleur went through tough times at the end of his career but he exited with class. I always felt that there was a crass element to his personality so I have a hard time feeling excited about Saturday.

Ultimately, I sense the Habs brass wanted a big splash for the next sweater retiring evening and I don't think they thought Butch Bouchard would have the same impact on this 100th year push. Roy is still fresh in many fans mind.

BTW McPhee, are you going to Dylan tomorrow night?
I was going to, but my daughter's interested in going to Queen's, and I knew he was playing in Kingston on the 15th [Saturday] so we took a little tour and went o see Dylan in the new arena there.

Pretty good show, his band just keeps getting better, he played a lot of harp, seemed to be having fun, so what's not to like ?

You didn't hear my e mail on Melnick today ?

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11-17-2008, 07:17 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by rocketlives View Post
Worsley over Hodge any day. I remember Hodge fearing Bobby Hull's slap shot so much, he once withdrew his glove and let a goal in just to avoid the pain of catching it.
funny, I was about 10, but I remember that. Worlsey was my favourite goalie, but you know what I mean, you remeber images and games but you can't really qualify at that age.

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11-17-2008, 09:37 PM
  #100
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LOVE him or HATE him, Roy has given us lots of bragging rights:


1993 STANLEY CUP
1989 STANLEY CUP FINALS (Calgary)
1986 STANLEY CUP





I still wonder though...how Roy's career would have turned out if he weren't traded to the Avs?
Racicot could have led those Avs teams to the cup finals, it doesn't get much better than those teams in front of Roy.

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