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Joel Lundqvist and LTIR

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Old
11-16-2008, 09:40 PM
  #1
BigG44
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Joel Lundqvist and LTIR

According to the Dallas Stars original diagnosis, Lunqvist could return sometime between November 25th and December 9th.

Some people have said that if Lundqvist went on LTIR, Dallas would gain cap space. I think people may have the wrong assumption of how LTIR exemptions work. From discussions with map94 and reading everything I could find this is my best understanding of the situation. Basically, I believe the following is correct.

November 22nd against the Anaheim Ducks will be Joel Lundqvistís 10th game missed. At that time, he would have also missed more than 24 days. Therefore, he would fulfill the requirements that a player must meet for a LTIR exemption.

Teams do not earn cap space while using the LTIR exemption; they are only allowed to exceed the cap. For example, if a player with a $1.5 million cap hit is placed on LTIR on a team with a roster with a cap value of $56.2 million, that team does not gain $1.5 million in cap space. The LTIR exemption does not kick in until the team exceeds the cap. Therefore, if a player with a $500,000 cap hit is called up to replace the injured player, the team gets no benefit from the LTIR exemption. If the team chooses to call up 2 players whose combined cap hit is $1.25 million or even one player with a $1.25 million cap hit, the team is forgiven for going over the cap by $725,000 but no usable cap space is gained.

With the salary cap set at $56.7 million, teams can spend $304,838.71 per day. Right now, with 14 forwards, 7 defenseman, and 2 goalies, Dallas is spending $303,951.61 per day, or Dallas is accumulating $887.10 of cap space per day. If Dallas put Lundqvist on LTIR, and called up Landon Wilson, $550,000 cap hit/ $2,956.99 per day, Dallas would exceed the cap by $2,069.89 per day. This would be okay because of Lundqvist being on LITR, but Dallas would not accumulate any cap space.

James Neal could not be called up with Lundqvist on LTIR because Nealís cap hit is larger than Lundqvistís.

Therefore, as long as no one else is injured (Dallas is carrying 13 healthy forwards), Dallas would be better served to leave the lineup alone (like they did), not use the LITR exemption, and continue to accumulate $887.10 of cap space per day.

Putting Lundqvist on LTIR retroactively does not save the Stars any money at all because the Stars are not over the cap.

While Zubov was on LTIR, Dallas also did not earn any cap space, they were just forgiven for exceeding the cap. Therefore, for the first 24 days of the season, Dallas earned $0 of cap space. From Day 25 until now, they have earned $887.10 of cap space per day.

I tried to make it as clear as possible, but itís not something that can be easily explained.

Map94, does that sound right to you?

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11-17-2008, 10:10 AM
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Sounds good to me.

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11-17-2008, 05:55 PM
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According to the DMN blog Ludgvist has been placed on LTIR...

http://starsblog.dallasnews.com/arch...n-waivers.html

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11-17-2008, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by map94 View Post
According to the DMN blog Ludgvist has been placed on LTIR...

http://starsblog.dallasnews.com/arch...n-waivers.html
He also said they could call up Neal, but I don't see how that works financially.

Could you figure it out?

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11-18-2008, 10:02 AM
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Here is what the CBA states about a replacement player for an injured player on LTIR:



There is no question that a replacement player's salary and bonuses cannot exceed the injured player's salary and bonuses.

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11-18-2008, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
He also said they could call up Neal, but I don't see how that works financially.

Could you figure it out?
If I get time today, I'll see if I can figure out exactly where the Stars stand and how this impacts things.

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11-18-2008, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Here is what the CBA states about a replacement player for an injured player on LTIR:



There is no question that a replacement player's salary and bonuses cannot exceed the injured player's salary and bonuses.

I agree. It's pretty plain when you read that statement in the CBA. Which is why I'm scratching my head a little about why they are putting Ludqvist on LTIR. The only players currently in the minors making less than Ludqvist that can be recalled for Ludqvist are:

Jancevski, Stafford, Fortunus, Ludwig, Gagnon, Lammers, Naurov, Wathier, Wilson, Conner, Climie

None of those names do much for me...

They would have the payroll room to add Neal with Ludqvist on LTIR, but it'll be difficult to get him added without doing something weird like I projected on the other thread.


Last edited by map94: 11-18-2008 at 10:28 AM.
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11-18-2008, 10:35 AM
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Assumptions I’m making:

1) Crombeen does not practice with the team on Tuesday and is off the roster by 5 PM Eastern tonight, 11/18. Therefore, he does not count against the cap today.

2) Dallas calls up James Neal on Thursday, 11/20, to play in the Chicago game and serve as Joel Lundqvist’s injury replacement.

3) Even though I can’t find it in the CBA, Dallas can call up James Neal to replace Joel Lundqvist, but Dallas will be over the cap for the part of Neal’s salary that exceeds Lundqvist’s salary.

On the 42nd day of the season, 11/19, Dallas will have 13 forwards, 7 defenseman, and 2 goalies on their roster. The Average Club Salary of the team will be $300,994.62. Therefore, Dallas will have $3,844.09 in payroll room for the day. Through the first 42 days of the season, Dallas will have acquired $29,946.24 in total payroll room.

Joel Lundqvist’s daily averaged cap hit is $3,897.85. James Neal’s daily averaged cap hit is $4,417.56. If they call up James Neal to replace Lundqvist, Dallas would be over the cap by $519.72 everyday Neal is on the roster.

Dividing the total payroll room Dallas has accumulated, $29,946.24, by the amount Neal puts Dallas over the daily cap limit, $519.72, will give you the number of days Dallas can have Neal on the roster without exceeding the Upper Limit, which is not permitted. Therefore Dallas, without making any further changes to the roster, could have Lundqvist on LTIR and Neal on the roster for 57 days until they exhausted their payroll room. At that time, January 15th, Dallas would have to make a move to be in compliance with the daily cap limit. Lundqvist shouldn’t be on LTIR that long though.

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11-18-2008, 10:41 AM
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I've always assumed the team had to project the active rosters players charges to the end of the season when calculating the cap. So the team would have to be cap compliant today and every day till the end of the season with the current roster. I wouldn't think you could call up a player knowing that a few days of months down the road you would be over the cap and have to send them down. But I don't know for sure.

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11-18-2008, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by map94 View Post
I've always assumed the team had to project the active rosters players charges to the end of the season when calculating the cap. So the team would have to be cap compliant today and every day till the end of the season with the current roster. I wouldn't think you could call up a player knowing that a few days of months down the road you would be over the cap and have to send them down. But I don't know for sure.
The way the CBA was worded made me believe that the cap was calculated on a daily basis. As long as team was below the cumulative Upper Limit, they should be fine. So the team can exceed the daily limit as long as the cap overage is not greater than their payroll room.

I don't know if that is right, but I read it that way.

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11-18-2008, 11:01 AM
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One other interesting note, if Dallas would send Brunnstrom down for 6 days, they would have enough cap space for Neal and Brunnstrom for the entire year.

It would deplete all of their payroll room and allow no space for an injury call up, but it would work.

I read somewhere that Anaheim was going to assign Bobby Ryan to their ECHL affiliate between games to save cap space. Couldn't Dallas do something similar with Oklahoma?

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11-18-2008, 11:26 AM
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The Stars could send Brunnstrom down between games. But he would lose roughly $4355 per day in salary he is sent down ($875k - $65k)/186. I don't think that would go over very well. Plus, he would not be practicing with the team between games. It's not really a good option if you want happy players.

For Bobby Ryan if the choice is get called up on game days or play in the minors, i guess he would pick getting called up on game days.

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