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Does Patrick really deserve the honor?

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Old
11-17-2008, 09:49 PM
  #101
Toro
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Originally Posted by rocketlives View Post
Roy is the winningest goalkeeper in NHL history and he played a little more than half his career with the Montreal Canadiens. I guess he deserves to have his number 33 retired at the Bell center but I won't watch the ceremony.
You answered your own question. So don't watch it, did you make this thread to tell us this?

Hater.....

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11-17-2008, 09:51 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Racicot could have led those Avs teams to the cup finals, it doesn't get much better than those teams in front of Roy.
If that were the case than they would have won every year WITH Roy.

Detroit and Dallas had all-star teams as well, dont forget that. The competition in the West was just much stronger.

So your point couldn't be more wrong. I used to be a Nordiques fan so even if I switched to the Habs, I was still following Colorado religiously and I can tell you Roy was just as superb during those cup runs. Not every goalie could have lead them to the 2cups they won.

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11-17-2008, 09:56 PM
  #103
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Yes. The very thought that anyone would question it is stupid. Roy never quit on the Habs. He said the coach goes or I go. And for the credibility of the organization management decided to side with the coach. Yeah real credible choice. What did that coach end up doing? He freaking quit! Patrick Roy is the man!

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Old
11-17-2008, 09:57 PM
  #104
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[QUOTE=mcphee;16367276]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'm really fed up with the people still bitter about how Roy left.
MOVE THE **** ON!



It's been 13years, get over it little baby.[/QUOTE]




Pretty well, you're a very ignorant young man.

If I remember correctly, that's why I have this poster ignored.

You know, i use to not use that function but can't read HF without it now.

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Old
11-17-2008, 10:03 PM
  #105
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[QUOTE=Toro;16381621]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post


If I remember correctly, that's why I have this poster ignored.

You know, i use to not use that function but can't read HF without it now.
Taking the time to throw an arrow towards someone that's already on your ignore list..I guess that's classy hey

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Old
11-17-2008, 10:06 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Habs
Racicot could have led those Avs teams to the cup finals, it doesn't get much better than those teams in front of Roy.
You do know that the 96 team beat the Detroit Red Wings team that won more regular season games than any team in NHL history, right? Quebec's problem throughout most of their existence was that while powerful up front at times, and powerful on the back end, they never had the goaltending needed to put them over the top. Patrick Roy put them over the top.

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Old
11-17-2008, 10:31 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I was going to, but my daughter's interested in going to Queen's, and I knew he was playing in Kingston on the 15th [Saturday] so we took a little tour and went o see Dylan in the new arena there.

Pretty good show, his band just keeps getting better, he played a lot of harp, seemed to be having fun, so what's not to like ?

You didn't hear my e mail on Melnick today ?
I'm looking forward to it, bringing both my kids. Checked out the set list and he seems to mix up nicely.

Didn't hear your email, what was the jist of it?

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Old
11-18-2008, 05:02 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
If that were the case than they would have won every year WITH Roy.

Detroit and Dallas had all-star teams as well, dont forget that. The competition in the West was just much stronger.

So your point couldn't be more wrong. I used to be a Nordiques fan so even if I switched to the Habs, I was still following Colorado religiously and I can tell you Roy was just as superb during those cup runs. Not every goalie could have lead them to the 2cups they won.
I agree, actually. Roy had a more consistently good stint in Colorado than in Montreal.

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Old
11-18-2008, 06:48 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
I agree, actually. Roy had a more consistently good stint in Colorado than in Montreal.
Montreal: 3 Vezinas, 2 Conns, 2 Cups

Colorado: 1 Conn, 2 Cups

I think his Habs resume is more impressive. His GAA and SV% was better with the AV's because the game changed, not because he became a better goalie.

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Old
11-18-2008, 07:10 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
I'm looking forward to it, bringing both my kids. Checked out the set list and he seems to mix up nicely.

Didn't hear your email, what was the jist of it?
He went to the Kingston show, too bad, I would've said hello. I've met the man 2-3 times, always after concerts. When he spoke about it, I just e mailed that I was there, was impressed by the show as always aqnd joked how my youngest noticed what I thought was a lyric mistake.

During Lay Lady Lay, he said, 'You can eat your cake and have it too' rather than, have your cake.....

Mitch played he song and said that it was no mistake he just changes it up. I know he changes it up, maybe he's right, but he also mixes up lines now and then, which is understandable. He's forgot more about Dylan than I know, but I'm not sure about this one. Doesn't matter, most Dylan questions are kind of unknowable.

btw, Mitch sent me an e mail, which explains, he said that he heard him repeat the line and he seemed to be flashing a wedding ring, which in cryptic dylanspeak probably is sending a message about a change in his personal life.


Habnot, you'll love his band. The way that they present the songs now is great. If you have a connection to certain songs, you can't be disapointed as you understand lyrics that you already know. Some of the suff is hard to follow, on Saturday he played Hollis Brown and I didn't recognize it. iF he plays stuff like It's Alright Ma, you have to be a Dylan fan and appreciate the song because him doing a long narrative without a chorus is sort of for fans only, but I find it cool how he does as he pleases.

He does this staccato thing with some songs that I haven't heard before, sort of chants the lines, if you don't hear it during some of the songs, you definitely will in Watchtower. Enjoy.


Last edited by mcphee: 11-18-2008 at 07:30 AM.
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Old
11-18-2008, 07:50 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I was going to, but my daughter's interested in going to Queen's, and I knew he was playing in Kingston on the 15th [Saturday] so we took a little tour and went o see Dylan in the new arena there.

Pretty good show, his band just keeps getting better, he played a lot of harp, seemed to be having fun, so what's not to like ?

You didn't hear my e mail on Melnick today ?
Let me count the ways...

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Old
11-18-2008, 07:57 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
Let me count the ways...
You say that but you were probably that drunk guy 3 seats over screaming Hurricane all night. Not sure whether he wanted the song or was warning us about the weather.

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Old
11-18-2008, 08:03 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
You say that but you were probably that drunk guy 3 seats over screaming Hurricane all night. Not sure whether he wanted the song or was warning us about the weather.
Nope, I was at home singing "Shovel me tender, shovel me true..."

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Old
11-18-2008, 08:20 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
You say that but you were probably that drunk guy 3 seats over screaming Hurricane all night. Not sure whether he wanted the song or was warning us about the weather.
Maybe it was Montrealer?

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Old
11-18-2008, 08:26 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by AD View Post
Maybe it was Montrealer?
I think he's over the bitterness, I'd be worried if he wasn't.

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Old
11-18-2008, 08:30 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Montreal: 3 Vezinas, 2 Conns, 2 Cups

Colorado: 1 Conn, 2 Cups

I think his Habs resume is more impressive. His GAA and SV% was better with the AV's because the game changed, not because he became a better goalie.
...and his goalie equipment got ridiculously bigger.

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Old
11-18-2008, 09:11 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Montreal: 3 Vezinas, 2 Conns, 2 Cups

Colorado: 1 Conn, 2 Cups

I think his Habs resume is more impressive. His GAA and SV% was better with the AV's because the game changed, not because he became a better goalie.
I disagree.
It's not because the game changed, it's because for all the years he was in Colorado, he never once played on a team that was bad.

Mtl had some really tough years after Savard was out. It all went downhill.
But in Colorado, they had a dynasty up until the Lockout.

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Old
11-18-2008, 10:24 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
so, they should wait until he's dying ?
No, and thats the point I'm making. But with Roy, admid all the controversy could have waited another few years especially when other honouries had to wait until they were near the end of their lives. To couple the franchise 100year aniversary with the retirement of a player that was happy to skip town over a temper tantrum just doesnt seem fitting.

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Old
11-18-2008, 10:30 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by dutchy29 View Post
No, and thats the point I'm making. But with Roy, admid all the controversy could have waited another few years especially when other honouries had to wait until they were near the end of their lives. To couple the franchise 100year aniversary with the retirement of a player that was happy to skip town over a temper tantrum just doesnt seem fitting.
I was just making the easy joke.

I don't think that waiting was ever in the cards, we can argue right and wrong, but they wanted all along to piggyback this with the centennial and that's what's going to happen. Everything else is just opinion, as I suspect they made these decsions a few years back.

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Old
11-18-2008, 10:30 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by dutchy29 View Post
No, and thats the point I'm making. But with Roy, admid all the controversy could have waited another few years especially when other honouries had to wait until they were near the end of their lives. To couple the franchise 100year aniversary with the retirement of a player that was happy to skip town over a temper tantrum just doesnt seem fitting.
I get the feeling they just want to "close the books" for the 100th anniversary and give younger fans a chance to salute one of their heroes. And buy the merchandise, of course.

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Old
11-18-2008, 10:42 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I disagree.
It's not because the game changed, it's because for all the years he was in Colorado, he never once played on a team that was bad.
He only played on one bad Hab team for a full season, 1994. He won more Jennings Trophies on the Habs as well. Like I said, the only reason he had a better GAA on the AV's was because of changes in the game. Relatively speaking, his GAA's in his best year's in Montreal, were more impressive in comparison to the rest of the league, hence a much more impressive trophy case during the Montreal era.

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Old
11-18-2008, 10:58 AM
  #122
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I think Roy deserves it, but I can see why some think it should have waited until other habs greats were honoured.

the one thing I don't get is people trying to take pot-shots at him by questioning how his career would have looked had he not played for the talented avs teams later in his career.

Any HOF player who reaches the top of the lists stat wise HAD to benefit from playing with some very good players/teams...

do you really think Gretzky's assault on the record books would have been so complete had he not played with HOFer's like Kurri/Coffey/Messier and the rest of that oiler dynsaty?

would Brodeur be knocking on Roy's statistical doorstep had he been drafted by the Jets and played for the Jets/yotes during the 90's instead of behind Stevens/Niedemayer/Daneyko/Rafalski in the Devils/Lemaire's trapping system?

Roy "benefited", stats-wise, by playing for the Avs when they emerged into an annual cup contender (then again, are they the same cup contender with jocelyn in nets?), but he was also targeted by them as a result of his All-Star caliber play from the decade before that.

Roy had a HOF caliber career, he would have been a HOFer wether or not he had moved on to the Avs, and likely his stats wouldn't have been quite as good, but then again, maybe if Roy win's that power struggle, the habs fire tremblay (and houle who refuses to fire his buddy) and end up hiring a young Ken Holland, who then uses the draft to improve the team (instead of destroy it as those clowns did)...
97 we get M.Hossa instead of J.Ward
98 we get Gagne instead of Chouinard
99 we get Zetterberg instead of Buturlin
00 we get Frolov/Vishnovsky instead of Hainsey/Marcel Hossa

playing the what-if game is dangerous (especially to the mental health fans of habs fans who lived through the 90's draft debacles).

Roy is Roy, with his stats as they are. His career deserves to be celebrated. Bashing him for his career stats is ridiculous...

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Old
11-18-2008, 11:33 AM
  #123
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Yes he deserves it, I have tickets to the game and i will be wearing my Roy 93 stanley cup jersey.

Everyone playing nets when they where a kid pretended to be Roy.

Bring on the bruins.

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Old
11-18-2008, 11:45 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Toro View Post
You answered your own question. So don't watch it, did you make this thread to tell us this?

Hater.....
I started this thread to exchange opinions with fellow posters and I believe the number of replys show that there was plenty of interest. It's also the event of the week in Montreal.

I don't hate Patrick Roy and I recognize his worth to the Habs when he wore the CH. Patrick was to NHL hockey what Ty Cobb was to major league baseball: a jerk and an ***hole but the best in the business at what he was doing.

I believe his number 33 belongs in the Bell Center rafters but I would have waited a year, that's all. If I had been the one to decide, there would be 15 retired jerseys and Patrick's number would be there. However I would not have retired the jerseys of Serge Savard and Yvan Cournoyer as neither of them ever made the first all-star team.

Emile Bouchard and Elmer Lach made the first all-star team 3 times and were GIANTS of the glorious Habs team of the mid-forties. Elmer Lach when he retired was the NHL's all-time top total point getter, nothing less. When you look at all these banners up there and you don't see Bouchard and Lach's sweaters, something is missing. Mr Gillett, Mr Boivin, why not retire 2 more jerseys during this centennial year before December 2009 ?


Last edited by rocketlives: 11-18-2008 at 10:22 PM.
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Old
11-18-2008, 09:06 PM
  #125
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I was watching the second intermission on tonight's game and saw the interview with Roy. When Ferraro asked him what was going through his mind that night of the now famous "this is my last game" fiasco, Roy said "that night the franchise let me down". I cringed.

I cheered for the guy and admired him as a goaltender. Without him we likely would not have won the last two cups. There is no way to gloss over the last two championship teams by saying that Penney or Racicot would have won the cup... get real. Roy is definitely in the top 3 of all-time Canadiens goaltenders.

But at the same time, Roy's ego was larger than the team. I don't even want to get into his personal affairs because they're just that, personal. However the incidents that have become public speak of the darker more selfish side of Roy's demeanor. And it's hard to separate that from the selfish player that we saw that night against Detroit.

And that is what makes me feel that when I watch the number retirement ceremony for Roy, it will seem rather tainted. Granted he does deserve mentioning and his number should be retired eventually, but not this year.

Like Rocketlives stated, both Elmer Lach and Emile Bouchard should be in line first, and in my opinion next in line would be Steve Shutt. Both Lach and Shutt are top 10 in all time Canadiens scoring and they are the only two not up in the rafters.

To have these three Hall of Famers be passed by a guy who said "the franchise let him down" seems to be me to be a bit of a disservice. Roy was great, but he doesn’t deserve the jump the queue.

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