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OT - Who Owns The Montreal Maroons Today?

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Old
10-12-2006, 03:17 PM
  #26
Thibaj
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Originally Posted by raketheleaves View Post
No, the old Montreal Arena was at Wood/Ste-Catherine, where Westmount Square is today. It burned down in 1918 and took many of the surrounding houses with it. It was the home of the Wanderers. The guy who owned the Wanderers had plenty of enemies. Sam Lichtenstein or something was his name. He also owned the first version of the Montreal Royals baseball team. They used to play at a baseball park where Alexis Nihon Plaza now stands, but that was burned to the ground too. Where the Forum is now, it used to be a park. It was a legendary park because a lot of famous hockey legends played hockey there: Art Ross, Lester Patrick, etc. It was a famous hockey spot even before the Forum was built.

I think the Wanderers or Shamrocks also have banners hanging at the new Westmount Arena with Montreal AAA and the Victorias. I think they are replicas because they all look exactly the same.

The Maroons came along later to fill the void. The Wanderers-Canadiens rivalry was the original French-English rivalry. The Maroons first season was 1924. The Forum was built for the Maroons as we all know, though because of a cancellation the Canadiens ended up playing the first game there. The Canadiens played up on Mont-Royal/St-Urbain (now a Pharmaprix or Loblaws, but the same building) at that point, but wiggled their way out of the lease so they could make more money at the Forum (more seats). Before they changed the Mont Royal Arena from a regular commercial space to a Loblaws, there were parts of the building that were intact from when it was an arena. I hope they didn't renovate those areas...!

But the Canadiens' first ever home arena (and game played) was at Montreal Arena on Wood-Ste-Catherine.

There's a book out there on the history of the Maroons that has all this stuff in it.
_____
I played for the minor league Montreal Maroons. They used to be situated in NDG before merging with the Ville-Emard Hurricanes to become the Montreal Hurons (not a good team name to have when playing against a first nations team lemme tell ya). Mario Lemieux used to play for the Hurricanes when he was a kid. I missed him by five years or so (thank god, because I was a goalie).

From what I remembered (and checked on the internet), the first ever Canadiens arena was in Hochelaga. It was called "Aréna Jubilée". The Canadiens played there during the 1909-1910 season. They went back there in 1918 when the Westmount Arena burned down. The Aréna Jubilée burned down in 1919, so the Habs moved to the Aréna Mont-Royal on the Plateau in 1920. In 1924 the Canadiens moved to the Forum, and in 1996 they moved to the Molson Centre, now called Bell Centre.

The Aréna Mont-Royal burned down in 2000. The new building is a brand new construction with a Provigo in it (no Loblaws or Pharmaprix there). If you have a doubt, check there!:

http://www.arch.mcgill.ca/prof/melli...am/photos2.htm

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Old
10-12-2006, 04:03 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Thibaj View Post
I am not sure about that. I think that the Nordiques belongs to the Avalanche, the Jets to the Coyotes, etc.

And there is at least one exception: I think that the Whalers belongs to the city of Hartford (and this is why you can't use Whalers jerseys in hockey video games when you take Carolina, because they don't have the rights.)
That is correct, those teams, Quebec, Winnipeg, etc, are technically not defunct, they moved somewhere else, so their records, trademarks, etc, move with them.

The Maroons ceased to exist, different scenario.

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10-12-2006, 04:08 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by ohiohabsfan View Post
That is correct, those teams, Quebec, Winnipeg, etc, are technically not defunct, they moved somewhere else, so their records, trademarks, etc, move with them.
The records, yes, but the NHL owns the trademarks on the old Jets and Nordiques logos.

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Old
10-12-2006, 04:19 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by raketheleaves View Post
Yes, that's the same league I played in. AA hockey is very good. Lots of future NHLers in there. I like looking back at my old tournament booklets and seeing the NHLers, or guys who should have made it.
That's cool. What NHLers did you play with or against?

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10-12-2006, 05:20 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Tricolore#20 View Post
I don't believe the Canadiens should celebrate the achievements of the other Montreal clubs during their centennial. As it has been mentioned, some of those clubs were direct rivals of the Canadiens, and have no affiliation with the club. It would be odd to see the Canadiens embrace their rivals during their clubs centennial (you won't see AC Milan celebrate Inter Milan during their centennial, even though they play in the same stadium... or Liverpool celebrate Everton).

The Canadiens have acknowledged the Maroons in their "hall of fame" at the Bell Centre. Their Stanley Cups are recognized on a mural on the wall, and IMO this should be enough.
You're comparing apples and oranges, though. The only way your examples would apply to this situation is if Inter Milan had gone defunct back in WWII or Everton had gone bankrupt.

Do you really think people would think this was a good idea if the Maroons were still around?

As it is, 95% of Montreal hockey fans have no clue about the Maroons, and I think it's a part of our city's history (and the Habs history, as they were probably our biggest rivals for two decades), and I see no problem with highlighting that history.

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Old
10-12-2006, 05:28 PM
  #31
tinyzombies
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Originally Posted by Jaydee96 View Post
understanding anything yet?
Yep, that all makes sense. Thanks for that. I've been in the US for 13 years until this year, so I'm way out of touch. That's good hockey though. You want to coach in the higher leagues, I'm guessing that's the perfect place to start.

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Old
10-12-2006, 05:34 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
That's cool. What NHLers did you play with or against?
I haven't looked in a long time, but some good ones. Felix Potvin used to be a backup goalie with Mercier in the east end. The Cat was fat and slow when he was a teenager. The starter was a guy named Laforet who was an old time flopper-type goalie (something like Hasek, who revived the style a bit)... he was very good. Mercier was usually the class of Montreal AA hockey when I played. Must be because Molson dumped beer in the water over there.

Mercier and Hochelaga used to be two separate teams. Then there was Federation 76 (Rosemont, basically), PAT, and a team that used to play in Maurice Richard Arena...Assomption or something. I don't really remember the other teams offhand. I think Assomption was only around for a little while too. There must have been other teams, but I can't recall.

Mercier was a dirty team (they didn't have to be) that played great systems and were all skilled and fast. They also wore Canadiens colours, so right there they had an advantage on you already. Their coach was obviously trying to make the NHL, because he acted like it and had his team playing like it. A real showman. Mercier had no outstanding talent that I remember, but every single player was good, dirty and smart. They built perfect teams and it was always a victory just to play a close game against them (at the moment, I can't remember ever beating them....lol....but I do remember a 3-3 tie which we were happy about). They had no mercy for the opposition either, they wouldn't stop once they were on a roll.

Other players I don't remember offhand, but there were some. Denis Chalifoux was supposed to be the next Denis Savard, but he didn't make it. Martin St-Amour got a lot of hype, but same thing, he didn't make it.


Last edited by tinyzombies: 10-12-2006 at 05:49 PM.
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Old
10-12-2006, 05:39 PM
  #33
tinyzombies
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Originally Posted by Thibaj View Post
From what I remembered (and checked on the internet), the first ever Canadiens arena was in Hochelaga. It was called "Aréna Jubilée". The Canadiens played there during the 1909-1910 season. They went back there in 1918 when the Westmount Arena burned down. The Aréna Jubilée burned down in 1919, so the Habs moved to the Aréna Mont-Royal on the Plateau in 1920. In 1924 the Canadiens moved to the Forum, and in 1996 they moved to the Molson Centre, now called Bell Centre.

The Aréna Mont-Royal burned down in 2000. The new building is a brand new construction with a Provigo in it (no Loblaws or Pharmaprix there). If you have a doubt, check there!:

http://www.arch.mcgill.ca/prof/melli...am/photos2.htm

I'm pretty sure they played in the Montreal Arena first. This is only Wikipedia, and it says that it was a part-time arena for both the Canadiens and Wanderers. I don't know if that means they shared it or if they also played elsewhere.

I remember reading that the Canadiens played their first ever game at Montreal Arena though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westmount_Arena

1. Montreal Arena in Westmount
2. Jubilee Arena on Ste-Catherine Street E.
3. Mont Royal Arena
4. Forum
5. Bell Centre

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Old
10-12-2006, 06:13 PM
  #34
Psycho Papa Joe
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A History of the Stanley Cup in Montreal:

1892-93 Montreal AAA
1893-94 Montreal AAA
1894-95 Montreal Victorias
1895-96 Montreal Victorias
1896-97 Montreal Victorias
1897-98 Montreal Victorias
1898-99 Montreal Shamrocks
1899-1900 Montreal Shamrocks
1901-02 Montreal AAA
1902-03 Montreal AAA
1905-06 Montreal Wanderers
1906-07 Montreal Wanderers
1907-08 Montreal Wanderers
1909-10 Montreal Wanderers
1915-16 Montreal Canadiens
1923-24 Montreal Canadiens
1925-26 Montreal Maroons
1929-30 Montreal Canadiens
1930-31 Montreal Canadiens
1934-35 Montreal Maroons
1943-44 Montreal Canadiens
1945-46 Montreal Canadiens
1952-53 Montreal Canadiens
1955-56 Montreal Canadiens
1956-57 Montreal Canadiens
1957-58 Montreal Canadiens
1958-59 Montreal Canadiens
1959-60 Montreal Canadiens
1964-65 Montreal Canadiens
1965-66 Montreal Canadiens
1967-68 Montreal Canadiens
1968-69 Montreal Canadiens
1970-71 Montreal Canadiens
1972-73 Montreal Canadiens
1975-76 Montreal Canadiens
1976-77 Montreal Canadiens
1977-78 Montreal Canadiens
1978-79 Montreal Canadiens
1985-86 Montreal Canadiens
1992-93 Montreal Canadiens

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Old
10-12-2006, 07:28 PM
  #35
Thibaj
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Originally Posted by raketheleaves View Post
I'm pretty sure they played in the Montreal Arena first. This is only Wikipedia, and it says that it was a part-time arena for both the Canadiens and Wanderers. I don't know if that means they shared it or if they also played elsewhere.

I remember reading that the Canadiens played their first ever game at Montreal Arena though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westmount_Arena

1. Montreal Arena in Westmount
2. Jubilee Arena on Ste-Catherine Street E.
3. Mont Royal Arena
4. Forum
5. Bell Centre
Well, from various sources on the web, the first Canadiens game was on January 5th, 1910, in Jubilée Aréna in Hochelaga.

http://www.chfans.com/histoire/in_Histcan.php?s=Arenas

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Old
10-12-2006, 08:35 PM
  #36
tinyzombies
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Originally Posted by Thibaj View Post
Well, from various sources on the web, the first Canadiens game was on January 5th, 1910, in Jubilée Aréna in Hochelaga.

http://www.chfans.com/histoire/in_Histcan.php?s=Arenas
Yep, I stand corrected.

It was:

Jubilee
Montreal Arena
Mont Royal
Forum
Bell Centre

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Old
10-12-2006, 11:23 PM
  #37
Galchenyuk x 27
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Originally Posted by raketheleaves View Post
Yep, that all makes sense. Thanks for that. I've been in the US for 13 years until this year, so I'm way out of touch. That's good hockey though. You want to coach in the higher leagues, I'm guessing that's the perfect place to start.
yup, Im 21. it's my 6th year as a coach.

I started out in Bantam 'A'...stooed there for 2 years.
then moved up to Midget 'A', at the same time i was also coaching an Atome B team. (All 4 of those teams being in St-Leonard).
The year after I moved to Bantam 'BB' with Bourassa.
Last year I was in Bantam 'AA'
and now this year Midget Espoir.

I should be here for a couple of years, Im gaining experience.
Of the 7 teams ive coached I was head coach for only the Atome team. Its not an easy job so im trying to learn as much as possible from the guys im with this year.

one of them played for the University of Brown, and another for Maine University in Division one hockey in the states.

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Old
10-12-2006, 11:45 PM
  #38
Phil Parent
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We totally own at this sport, you guys.

41 Stanley Cups. Can another city claim to have had that many league championships via multiple teams in one sport? I'm thinking New York in baseball.

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Old
11-18-2008, 01:19 AM
  #39
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Sorry for bringing this up again, but there seems to be confusion about the fate of the Maroons. The group that built the Forum was the Canadian Arena Company and they owned the Maroons. In 1935 the Arena Company, through a front group, bought the Canadiens. This was around the time the Maroons won their second Stanley Cup. Coincidentally, Toe Blake was moved from the champion Maroons to the Canadiens where he soon became their best player for many, many years.

There's reason to believe that the Arena Company planned to move the Maroons elsewhere and keep the Canadiens because they both had lots of financial difficulties whilst the Canadiens had the best shot at surviving because it was the majority French team and because it had a longer history. So in 1938 the Maroons suspended operations and the Maroons' management was transferred to the Canadiens, most notably Tommy Gorman who managed the Maroons when they won in 1935.

The Canadiens also acquired six Maroons' players for the 1938-39 including leading scorers Herb Cain and Bob Gracie as well as at least two defencemen. Though he never played for the Maroons, goaltender Claude Bourque belonged to them and he became the Canadiens' number one goaltender. The last of the mid-1920s core (Joliat and Lepine) did not return to the team after they got these players.

There's another notable link between the franchises; Babe Siebert. He was a left-winger for the Maroons on their famous S-Line. He later joined the Canadiens as a defencemen and won a Hart trophy in 1936-37, the year when Morenz returned and later died. He had a lot to do with the Canadiens' first place finish. Siebert was hired to be head coach in 1939 but he drowned before the beginning of the season.

In 1937, an all-star game was played to benefit Howie Morenz' s family. The all-stars played a combined Maroons-Canadiens team.

So there wasn't really a merger but in a way there was - the owners of the Maroons took over the Canadiens and jettisoned the Maroons' franchise. The Arena Company tried to sell the franchise, with Philadelphia I think being a possible site, but they gave up on trying to revive it in another city.

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Old
11-18-2008, 05:03 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydee96 View Post
.. Bill Durnan arena (rue Vezina, just east of Decarie)
I skated in that arena once with my class.

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Old
11-18-2008, 08:00 AM
  #41
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Wen I am tire of travail-trop
I put on coat of coon
And go see Canadiens make meence-meat of Maroon

When Joliat skate out I yell
Unteel I have a pain
I trow my ‘at up in the hair
And shout “Urrah,” again.

“Shut up, Pea Soup”, an Henglishman
Sourcastic say to me;
So I turn round to heem and yell :
“Shut up, you Cup of Tea.”

Dat was a ver’ exciting game:
De score eet was a tie;
An’ den dat leetle Joliat
Get hanger een hees heye.

He was so queek he mak’ dem look
Jus’ lak’ a lot of clown
An, wen he shoot, de wind from ‘er
Eet knock de hompire down.

Dat was de winning goal, ‘urrah;
De game she come to hend.
I yell: “Bravo for Joliat;
You ‘ear: ‘e ees ma friend.”

De Henglishman he say: “Pardon,”
An’ he tak off hees hat:
“De Breetish Hempire steel ees safe
Wen men can shoot lak’ dat.”

An’ den he say, “Bravo,” as hard
As Henglishman can whoop:
“I tink tonight I’ll change from tea
To bally ole pea-soup.”

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Old
11-18-2008, 08:33 AM
  #42
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Great thread. I got the Brown book about the Maroons from the Westmount Library ($60 for six month membership) and it was a good resource but it lacked primary sources. I guess everybody is dead now so it lacked sources to interview.

The Maroons initially wanted to revive the Wanderers name but the owners of that name refused. I think the Maroons didn't even have an official name for a long time, they were just the Montreal hockey team.

This link is sometimes useful if you want to read original newspaper reports from those years.

There's the matter of the Victoria Rink as well. My friend Billy Georgette, piano player at Biddles (now known as the House of Jazz) has made that rink his passion. It's now a parking garage straddling Drummond and Stanley near Dorchester. He calls it the birthplace of hockey and knows everything about the place, says it was the place where they had the first real game of hockey. The standard size rink of the current NHL was supposedly based on the distance between Stanley and Drummond, due to this building.

Early hockey didn't allow forward passes. The Western league teams allowed forward passes and the east eventually relented and allowed it. Teams only had about 8 players and this went well into the 30s or so.

Getting back to the subject - I think it'd be awesome if someone could set up a small museum specifically to honor the memory of these other teams in Montreal. It'd be pretty awesome.

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Old
11-18-2008, 08:35 AM
  #43
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Where's Daniel Bigras when you REALLY need him....

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Old
11-18-2008, 08:49 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Megaforce View Post
Great thread. I got the Brown book about the Maroons from the Westmount Library ($60 for six month membership) and it was a good resource but it lacked primary sources. I guess everybody is dead now so it lacked sources to interview.

The Maroons initially wanted to revive the Wanderers name but the owners of that name refused. I think the Maroons didn't even have an official name for a long time, they were just the Montreal hockey team.

This link is sometimes useful if you want to read original newspaper reports from those years.

There's the matter of the Victoria Rink as well. My friend Billy Georgette, piano player at Biddles (now known as the House of Jazz) has made that rink his passion. It's now a parking garage straddling Drummond and Stanley near Dorchester. He calls it the birthplace of hockey and knows everything about the place, says it was the place where they had the first real game of hockey. The standard size rink of the current NHL was supposedly based on the distance between Stanley and Drummond, due to this building.

Early hockey didn't allow forward passes. The Western league teams allowed forward passes and the east eventually relented and allowed it. Teams only had about 8 players and this went well into the 30s or so.

Getting back to the subject - I think it'd be awesome if someone could set up a small museum specifically to honor the memory of these other teams in Montreal. It'd be pretty awesome.

I can't picture where the building is/was, I'll have to look next time I'm downtown.

I didn't know that support for the Habs vs. Maroons was kind of a 2 solitudes thing. I always figured that the fans out there in Mtl that had that 'anyone but the Habs' attitude, must have evolved from the Maroons.

I argued on the history board that it wasn't the case,in terms of how partisanship was divided, but chatting with my Mom, not a sports fan, she told me that her Dad was a Maroons fan, and they bet pennies with the Francophones they worked with on CH-Maroons games, as it was the case. When they left the picture, most fans embraced the CH and some didn't.
She said that it was always a friendly sort of thing, it , in her memory, didn't get as bitter as Habs/Nordiques. She's hardly a hockey historian though, and I'd like to read about fan allegiances in those days.

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11-18-2008, 08:51 AM
  #45
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Where's Daniel Bigras when you REALLY need him....
you just beat me to it!!

too many long posts in this thread took me too long to read and was beaten by WS for the Marvelous Dan Bigras intro in this...

interesting read tho, thx guys.

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Old
11-18-2008, 08:59 AM
  #46
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I am not sure about that. I think that the Nordiques belongs to the Avalanche, the Jets to the Coyotes, etc.

And there is at least one exception: I think that the Whalers belongs to the city of Hartford (and this is why you can't use Whalers jerseys in hockey video games when you take Carolina, because they don't have the rights.)
jets name and logo dont belong to coyotes - they belong to the league

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11-18-2008, 09:15 AM
  #47
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And there is at least one exception: I think that the Whalers belongs to the city of Hartford (and this is why you can't use Whalers jerseys in hockey video games when you take Carolina, because they don't have the rights.)
I'm pretty sure that's correct. If I happen to run into someone who would know for sure, I'll ask.

Speaking of Habs history, has anyone else read The Montreal Canadiens by D'Arcy Jenish? I think it came out fairly recently... I got it last month when I was in Montreal and I couldn't put it down.

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11-18-2008, 10:04 AM
  #48
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OT

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Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
It would be a nice gesture by the Canadiens during their 100th anniversary celebrations to pay tribute to the Maroons, Wanderers, Victorias, Shamrocks, and AAA Stanley Cup champions. Perhaps they could wear a form of each team's uniform for one home game and display the appropriate Stanley Cup banners as well.
Maybe they should have every player on the Habs wear a different uniform for one game. It would look like a bad beer league out there.

Towards the tail end of this year, I think there will be plenty of people who will be glad that the 100th anniversary is over so we won't have to sit through a 30 minute presentation before EVERY game.


Last edited by Joe Cole: 11-18-2008 at 10:12 AM.
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11-18-2008, 01:10 PM
  #49
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We totally own at this sport, you guys.

41 Stanley Cups. Can another city claim to have had that many league championships via multiple teams in one sport? I'm thinking New York in baseball.
I think Moscow would come close, back in the day it was always either cska or spartak that won the league championship.

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Old
11-18-2008, 01:18 PM
  #50
Thibaj
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Originally Posted by LeafRefereeeeeees View Post
Yep, I stand corrected.

It was:

Jubilee
Montreal Arena
Mont Royal
Forum
Bell Centre
The correct order is:

Jubilée
Montreal Arena
Jubilée
Mont Royal
Forum
Bell Centre

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