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What happened to the other NY Rangers?

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Old
11-18-2008, 07:23 AM
  #1
offdacrossbar
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What happened to the other NY Rangers?

ok, so this is our team so far this season. not fast, no scoring, lots of defensive miscues, bad pp but real good in shootouts and an amazing goaltender.

my question is what happened to the puck control, attacking style, puck possession, in your face speed based team we saw in preseason and europe? werent we all told this was going to be a different team.... heck, no way shanny could play on this team, were gonna be too darn fast.

ill admit i was suckered. i bought into it early on. after watching this team completely dominate long stretches of the preseason games and a few of those early games in europe i was a believer. we were controlling the puck for minutes at a time with blazing speed and aggressive cycle and i was like....wow, this team is FAST!

well, um..... where did that team go?

now we have a plodding, low low low scoring, very devils like, defense first second and third team that relies on the best goaltender in the world to single handedly win games. it seems we play every game like game 7 of a playoff series.

so i guess my question is this, wasnt this team going to be different than last years team? to me, it seems almost the same.....

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11-18-2008, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
ok, so this is our team so far this season. not fast, no scoring, lots of defensive miscues, bad pp but real good in shootouts and an amazing goaltender.

my question is what happened to the puck control, attacking style, puck possession, in your face speed based team we saw in preseason and europe? werent we all told this was going to be a different team.... heck, no way shanny could play on this team, were gonna be too darn fast.

ill admit i was suckered. i bought into it early on. after watching this team completely dominate long stretches of the preseason games and a few of those early games in europe i was a believer. we were controlling the puck for minutes at a time with blazing speed and aggressive cycle and i was like....wow, this team is FAST!

well, um..... where did that team go?


now we have a plodding, low low low scoring, very devils like, defense first second and third team that relies on the best goaltender in the world to single handedly win games. it seems we play every game like game 7 of a playoff series.

so i guess my question is this, wasnt this team going to be different than last years team? to me, it seems almost the same.....
Did you really think Renney was going to change it up? I mean come on, the guy can't even keep a lineup together for more then 4 games in a row.

I said when that article came out it will never work because Renney will not commit to it, and surprise, he didnt.

Doesn't really matter ATM since Lundqvist is playing out of his mind, but who knows what the team will look like if Lundqvist ever starts giving up more then 2 goals this season...

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11-18-2008, 07:35 AM
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What happened? The calendar changed over to November that's what happened. Same as most years. Actually, the only thing that's different is our Vezina and MVP candidate is Superman this November instead of Clark Kent last November.

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11-18-2008, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
ok, so this is our team so far this season. not fast, no scoring, lots of defensive miscues, bad pp but real good in shootouts and an amazing goaltender.

my question is what happened to the puck control, attacking style, puck possession, in your face speed based team we saw in preseason and europe? werent we all told this was going to be a different team.... heck, no way shanny could play on this team, were gonna be too darn fast.

ill admit i was suckered. i bought into it early on. after watching this team completely dominate long stretches of the preseason games and a few of those early games in europe i was a believer. we were controlling the puck for minutes at a time with blazing speed and aggressive cycle and i was like....wow, this team is FAST!

well, um..... where did that team go?

now we have a plodding, low low low scoring, very devils like, defense first second and third team that relies on the best goaltender in the world to single handedly win games. it seems we play every game like game 7 of a playoff series.

so i guess my question is this, wasnt this team going to be different than last years team? to me, it seems almost the same.....
I have to say that I have been feeling a bit guilty in that while I appreciate this team winning, I'm getting horribly bored watching this team play games.

It seriously reminds me of the 96 Florida Panthers

No scoring, solid defence and a goalie playing out of his mind. The only difference is that this is not an abberation for Henrik the way that year was for Beezer.

I was really excited about the possibility of opening the game up a little while still maintaining a solid defensive posture and man o man have I been taken for a ride.

Watching this team is just like watching the Devils for all those years we complained that they were a trap happy group. This team is no different in that we rely more on the goalie and the defensive system to win games.

I really do dispise the style we play and I hate that we are so non-commital on to many levels in not taking the body. A good example of that was the Alfie goal. Sjostrom should have leveled the player in that spot and instead went for the puck.

Glad I'm not the only one that is dissappointed with the way we are playing, regardless of record.

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11-18-2008, 07:57 AM
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Yeah, I guess I'm in the minority in that I love good, responsible defensive hockey. I think everyone knows what would happen if we try to play every team in a track meet.

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11-18-2008, 07:59 AM
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I dunno, guys - this seems like a knee-jerk reaction to the last couple of games against Boston and Ottawa. In both we were passive, gave up 1-2 goals, came back to tie it late and then won in the shootout. They were both boring, frustrating games to watch, no question.

But prior to those two games, the dominating, puck-possession style was there in full force for the vast majority of the first 19 games. The issue wasn't that the team was boring, but rather that it took them a period to get started every game. Remember? It was only three games ago that the team had 42 shots (and 20 shots in the second) in back to back games against the Debbies and Edmonton. And did you forget the winning streak at the end of October?

For me, I see these last two games as wins that the team ground out while not playing their best hockey. Lesser Rangers teams from years past would not only have looked boring, they would have lost those games. I'm looking forward to some more dominating performances ahead.

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11-18-2008, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I have to say that I have been feeling a bit guilty in that while I appreciate this team winning, I'm getting horribly bored watching this team play games.

It seriously reminds me of the 96 Florida Panthers

No scoring, solid defence and a goalie playing out of his mind. The only difference is that this is not an abberation for Henrik the way that year was for Beezer.

I was really excited about the possibility of opening the game up a little while still maintaining a solid defensive posture and man o man have I been taken for a ride.

Watching this team is just like watching the Devils for all those years we complained that they were a trap happy group. This team is no different in that we rely more on the goalie and the defensive system to win games.

I really do dispise the style we play and I hate that we are so non-commital on to many levels in not taking the body. A good example of that was the Alfie goal. Sjostrom should have leveled the player in that spot and instead went for the puck.

Glad I'm not the only one that is dissappointed with the way we are playing, regardless of record.
The games haven't been anywhere near as boring as last year though. Also, don't forget that our best forward is injured

But yeah, unlike the Devils, we don't have Stevens and Niedermayer patrolling the blue line. This team will have to figure out how to score, because if Henrik goes into a slump we're going to lose almost every single game

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11-18-2008, 08:10 AM
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Man I couldn't agree more.

Certainly we miss Gomez.

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11-18-2008, 08:32 AM
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In an 82 game schedule, there are going to be dips in performance and energy. The good teams find ways to win no matter the circumstances and that is what the Rangers are currently doing.

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11-18-2008, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
my question is what happened to the puck control, attacking style, puck possession, in your face speed based team we saw in preseason and europe?
I don't think what works against non-NHL teams and Tampa Bay really indicates you're going to have the same success with that strategy against average and better NHL teams.

I also don't think anyone ever thought the Rangers were going to have a 70+ point player on the roster. Behind guys like Gomez, Drury and Naslund, all of which come with a modest set of offensive expectations, it's question mark after question mark in terms of offensive production. You've got wildcards in Zherdev and Dubinsky and nothing short of offensive failures in Prucha, Dawes and Fritsche. If the strategy was to pray that this collection was going to score at will, it was presumptuous at best.

I see the speed. I see the puck control. I just don't see anyone with the ability to bury these chances routinely. You might be able to exchange some offense for defensive responsibility, but in the end, I think the net effect is team that gives up a lot more goals and loses a lot more games.

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11-18-2008, 08:43 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Daily View Post
Yeah, I guess I'm in the minority in that I love the New Jersey Devils.
fixed

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11-18-2008, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
ok, so this is our team so far this season. not fast, no scoring, lots of defensive miscues, bad pp but real good in shootouts and an amazing goaltender.

my question is what happened to the puck control, attacking style, puck possession, in your face speed based team we saw in preseason and europe? werent we all told this was going to be a different team.... heck, no way shanny could play on this team, were gonna be too darn fast.

ill admit i was suckered. i bought into it early on. after watching this team completely dominate long stretches of the preseason games and a few of those early games in europe i was a believer. we were controlling the puck for minutes at a time with blazing speed and aggressive cycle and i was like....wow, this team is FAST!

well, um..... where did that team go?

now we have a plodding, low low low scoring, very devils like, defense first second and third team that relies on the best goaltender in the world to single handedly win games. it seems we play every game like game 7 of a playoff series.

so i guess my question is this, wasnt this team going to be different than last years team? to me, it seems almost the same.....
I see your point, but it is difficult to argue with success no matter how we get it.
I rather win ugly than lose with style. 7years of playoffs drought will do that to you.
Frankly the lack of scoring is a major concern. Lundy is bailing out our D;men night after night.

Given our ineptitude to score goals I thought shanny would have made sense along Gomez. That option is out the window......or is it.

Frankly some of us were predicting difficulty to score goals. neither of our forwards
is really a featured top 20 scorer. naslund hasn't been for the past 3-4 seasons and he wont be this year.

Again I will come back to what i said earlier.....trade Gomez for Kovy or Gabby.
My preference is Gabby for the team, but Kovy for the goals and durability.
Also possibly Havlat!

Yes I would sacrifice our 2nd best player - I reckon the franchise will do fine without him


Last edited by Sad London Ranger: 11-18-2008 at 08:52 AM.
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11-18-2008, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I don't think what works against non-NHL teams and Tampa Bay really indicates you're going to have the same success with that strategy against average and better NHL teams.

I also don't think anyone ever thought the Rangers were going to have a 70+ point player on the roster. Behind guys like Gomez, Drury and Naslund, all of which come with a modest set of offensive expectations, it's question mark after question mark in terms of offensive production. You've got wildcards in Zherdev and Dubinsky and nothing short of offensive failures in Prucha, Dawes and Fritsche. If the strategy was to pray that this collection was going to score at will, it was presumptuous at best.

I see the speed. I see the puck control. I just don't see anyone with the ability to bury these chances routinely. You might be able to exchange some offense for defensive responsibility, but in the end, I think the net effect is team that gives up a lot more goals and loses a lot more games.
i tend to agree with your take. thats why the pp is so critical for this team. improve that, and we win games by 2 or 3 goals rather than 1 or we dont lose by 1. the pp gives us the margin we need to play this system and win games while still limiting chances.

this style of play relies so heavily on hank being word class every night and what scares me is when hank has off nights or goes into a funk or god forbid is hurt, can we win at all? the thought of more games like the toronto game scares the hell out of me. if we need to score goals, we cant. we seem to be able to score 1 or 2 to get to ot and shootouts, but to win games 5-4 to me seems unrealistic and without hank, we will need to score 5 every night to win.

in the end, this team cannot win if hank isnt great. thats a disturbing thought.

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11-18-2008, 08:53 AM
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The rangers are 4th in the league in shots per game.

The rangers are 23rd in goals per game.

The rangers don't have finishers.

This team still needs another top line sniper.

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11-18-2008, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Daily View Post
Yeah, I guess I'm in the minority in that I love good, responsible defensive hockey. I think everyone knows what would happen if we try to play every team in a track meet.
I love a team that is winning. I love that this team forechecks hard. I love that this team is defensively responsible in their own zone. I love that this team is playing to its strengths (defense and goaltending), I love that they don't seem to know the meaning of they word quite.

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11-18-2008, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
this style of play relies so heavily on hank being word class every night and what scares me is when hank has off nights or goes into a funk or god forbid is hurt, can we win at all?
I wouldn't say it's the style or the strategy and has more to do with the offensive failures of the individuals who were being counted on to produce at least a LITTLE offense.

You're also spot on about the PP. Ultimately, I think it will be the make or break area of the game for the Rangers.

As for Henrik, a sound defensive effort as a team helps him do his job even better. You don't see the countless odd-man rushes or 40-ish shots on goal that some goaltenders in the league are facing. I'm not trying to undermine his value to the team, but he makes as many game-savers in a week as we've seen guys like Deslauriers, MacDonald, Auld, et al, make in 2 period against the Rangers.

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11-18-2008, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Daily View Post
Yeah, I guess I'm in the minority in that I love good, responsible defensive hockey. I think everyone knows what would happen if we try to play every team in a track meet.
My question is where's the balance?

There's got to be some balance between what we are doing and the run and gun style that didn't work (more because of the fat cat mentality and player personal than anything else)

This team has the foundation to play a very sound defensive game, while also opening up a little offensively. That is where Renney fails as a coach. And whoever is running the PP. They have year in and year out failed to maximize the offensive abilities if the group they have stating time and again that the offence will come around. That comment is a straight snow job and is used time and again for them to cover thair own deficeincies as coaches

Do any of you really believe we can clamp down on high octane offence's like Pitt, Montreal and or Washington for a 7 game set?

I seriously have my doubts.

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11-18-2008, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I see the speed. I see the puck control. I just don't see anyone with the ability to bury these chances routinely. You might be able to exchange some offense for defensive responsibility, but in the end, I think the net effect is team that gives up a lot more goals and loses a lot more games.
I think this is pretty much it. They're actually a pretty fast team, and they can get a cycle going, they just aren't able to do a lot with it. Also, in some games, it's really hard to be a fast, aggressive team, because the other team is stacking their blueline and making it hard to base your offense off of rushes. Having Gomez out doesn't help either.

But I still think they'd do better if they worked the puck to the middle of the ice better, instead of always working it to the points. We saw Korpkoski's line score goals in consecutive games by doing that. It's not always going to be there, but the long shot from the point and hope you get lucky isn't going to always be there either.

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11-18-2008, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I wouldn't say it's the style or the strategy and has more to do with the offensive failures of the individuals who were being counted on to produce at least a LITTLE offense.

You're also spot on about the PP. Ultimately, I think it will be the make or break area of the game for the Rangers.

As for Henrik, a sound defensive effort as a team helps him do his job even better. You don't see the countless odd-man rushes or 40-ish shots on goal that some goaltenders in the league are facing. I'm not trying to undermine his value to the team, but he makes as many game-savers in a week as we've seen guys like Deslauriers, MacDonald, Auld, et al, make in 2 period against the Rangers.
not sure i agree there. we give up a lot of odd man rushes and out right breakaways due to defensive breakdowns. hank stops nearly all of them. we may like to believe we limit chances against but my eyes see if differently. last night for example, we gave up alot of quality chances to the spezza line and another shorthanded clean breakaway to vermette and hank stood on his head. same with the boston game. hank is just so good at stopping the first shot and controlling rebounds that he tends to take over games and get into shooters heads.

i happen to be in the minority here i guess, i still think we give up alot of quality chances but hank just negates them so routinely that it appears we dont.

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11-18-2008, 09:29 AM
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I would just like to point out that this team has played 21 games in a little over a month. To expect them to be able to maintain a high-energy, puck possession style over the duration of a schedule like that (which just so happened to include a small trek through Europe...) is completely unrealistic. You guys do realize that they have already played over 1/4 of their games and there are still 5 months left in the season, right?

That said, this team does create chances, and something tells me that if they had found a way to bury a few more of them, many of you would be changing your "boring" assessment.

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11-18-2008, 09:30 AM
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1st place.

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11-18-2008, 09:37 AM
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1st place.
Doesn't really add much to the conversation or change the fact that this team is flawed and has shown no signs of changing into that "more free-flowing offence" that was promised.

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11-18-2008, 09:53 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by RegalRangers View Post
The rangers are 4th in the league in shots per game.

The rangers are 23rd in goals per game.

The rangers don't have finishers.

This team still needs another top line sniper.

Gomez leads the league in shots taken (66! for 3 goals - that must be some kind of record for ineffectiveness - I looked it up he is 426th in the league!!!!!!

I really believe Shanny on PP would do a world of good. he knows how to power that puck.


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11-18-2008, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
i happen to be in the minority here i guess, i still think we give up alot of quality chances but hank just negates them so routinely that it appears we dont.
I think if you take away the shorthanded breakaways, it doesn't seem like nearly as many, which is a sad statement unto itself.

I also think any defense is going to give up some quality chances to a line comprised of Heatley/Spezza/Alfredsson.

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11-18-2008, 10:02 AM
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Thus far, the MVP in Henrik. He keeps the team in the games which enables them to stage these comebacks. The defense is a bit more porous that I would've expected and thus far is giving up more shots on goal, and more quality shots than last season. Henke has been able to handle all that has reached him.

What happened to the puck pursuit, etc.? Well, for many games it appeared to be there. The Rangers were pretty adept at swarming, but didn't seem to have many guys able to finish. Further, it seemed that while they were swarming there was a tendency for the play to go the other way - a bit more odd man rushes than Renney would've liked and decent puck movement by the opposing teams (making for exciting games). I think Renney's trying to clamp it down a bit as a result of the scorers just not pulling their weight and the PP seemingly giving up more goals than it has been scoring (that's an exaggeration, but it just seems that way). Even strength scoring on the wings continue to be a problem. We couldn't expect Voros to score 30 goals this season. But, it's nice to be inept at offense and still get two points.

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