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What happened to the other NY Rangers?

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Old
11-18-2008, 04:39 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Their top 3 forwards are also inheritantly better than our best forward.

Overrating our talent up front at the expense of our coach seems to be a popular position these days.
no doubt they are better. no ones over rating anything. they have better top 6 forwards top to bottom. but, we have hank and our d is underrated.

if our pp was better-- even middle of the pack better, we would be a true force.

our coach is the one whos overrated.

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11-18-2008, 04:39 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by _AC_ View Post
I said it before the season began. That this team is one PURE GOAL SCORER away from being a legit cup contender.
You could have it, but the tough choice is which part of the roster do you downgrade to get it? The popular answer is "the part earning the most money", but whether you're a fan of the high paid guys or not, there's always a danger in robbing Peter to pay Paul as they say.

Like I was saying earlier in the thread, this problem is magnified by the inability of the secondary scorers to do anything. If Prucha/Dawes/Fritsche/Korpikoski could match even Callahan's output, the lack of offense seems much less troubling. Other than obvious PP disaster, I really think uncorking the potential on one of these guys is a tipping point for the team. How you do that....well....different story, but I'm just saying....

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11-18-2008, 04:44 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
but he has one every season. everyplayer goes through them. good teams find a way to overcome them. Crosby an MAF was injured for a while last year and pitt still won the division.
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Yeah. And their second best player went 47g 59a 106 pts. Malkin carried that team with Crosby out.
Let's not forget Ty Conklin's exploits, either....

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11-18-2008, 05:14 PM
  #79
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The whole point of the Renney argument is regarding the future: yes we are winning now. Yes we acknowledge that. Yes, most of us recognize we are winning not through overwhelming scoring but rather extremely good goaltending. To me it seems to not be mediocre in other aspects of the game - which in every regard with no involvement from Henrik we are.
Why not strive to raise the mediocre aspects and give Henrik more support.

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11-18-2008, 05:37 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If you're bored with this team, then there are plenty others to watch.

Me? I like winning hockey games.
Trust me, I found the Boston Toronto game so much more interesting to watch.

I'll always be a Rangers fan, but I'd feel like a hypocrite if I lambasted the Devils for all those years for playing a boring brand of hockey that rely more on the system and on the goalie to win games and not do the same when my own team does the same thing.

I found Devils Hockey pathetically boring and so far, I am finding the Rangers to be playing the same way.

I know we may not have 100 point scorers on this roster, I can appreciate that, what I find terribly disturbing is the lack of an offensive scheme by this coaching staff and a continued and very tired line about "the offence taking care of itself"

The fact of the matter is that I could live with minimal offence at ES, what I cannot tolerate is that this team as as inept with an extra man as they are at ES and that is POOR coaching.

Being a winning team doesn't take away (at least for me it doesn't) the fact that they are a boring team to watch and more often than not I find myself more interested in watching other teams play than watching the Rangers plod around the ice, take a million shots and score 1-2 goals a game.

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11-18-2008, 05:40 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
You could have it, but the tough choice is which part of the roster do you downgrade to get it? The popular answer is "the part earning the most money", but whether you're a fan of the high paid guys or not, there's always a danger in robbing Peter to pay Paul as they say.

Like I was saying earlier in the thread, this problem is magnified by the inability of the secondary scorers to do anything. If Prucha/Dawes/Fritsche/Korpikoski could match even Callahan's output, the lack of offense seems much less troubling. Other than obvious PP disaster, I really think uncorking the potential on one of these guys is a tipping point for the team. How you do that....well....different story, but I'm just saying....
Roszival is your answer

He's not providing anything to this roster that we cannot get from other guys already on the team.

His absence elevates Girardi, Mara, Staal and Kalinin and forces us to bring a guy up from the minors that playing a 5/6 role (in this system) would not really put us in a negative position.

Rosy is the guy to go.

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Old
11-18-2008, 06:04 PM
  #82
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It was interesting to hear Lundqvist talk about how he enjoys being on a low-scoring team where he’s forced to stay constantly sharp and can’t afford to make a single mistake, because it could mean the game.

“That’s Henrik all the way,” Tom Renney said.
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/rangers/

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Old
11-18-2008, 06:26 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post

I see the speed. I see the puck control. I just don't see anyone with the ability to bury these chances routinely. You might be able to exchange some offense for defensive responsibility, but in the end, I think the net effect is team that gives up a lot more goals and loses a lot more games.

I may be Biased in this case cause i really like him, But Korpi has put a lot of chances in front of the goal, and has very little chances himself, the one that he did, he blew it past weekes. I think if he was on a better line, he would be much more. But with gomer out, he is stuck where he is for a little while..

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11-18-2008, 06:33 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Being a winning team doesn't take away (at least for me it doesn't) the fact that they are a boring team to watch and more often than not I find myself more interested in watching other teams play than watching the Rangers plod around the ice, take a million shots and score 1-2 goals a game.
I'm glad you put the "at least for me" caveat in there, because I have to say it totally does/would for me. I argued earlier in this thread that the Rangers are not nearly as boring as some of you are making them out to be. I might be blinded by my allegiance to the team, or just excited by different things than most. But, even if it were 100% positively true that the Rangers were indeed boring, I would have no issues whatsoever with being labeled a hypocrite for loving them as they marched to the Stanley Cup.

One other thing: branding the Devils Cup teams as "boring" was in my opinion a crutch leaned on by fans of teams that simply could not give credit where credit was due. That, and the NHL as a whole during that era (late 90s) was kind of a snoozefest too.

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11-19-2008, 03:08 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Whoot Whoot View Post
But what was it 24th in goals?
So 3rd in shots and 24th in goals.

Is that the coach fault or what? (I am not saying that its a exact stat, but to me it indicates for sure that our coach have our team playing a pretty offensive game atleast, but maybe that our forwards could finnish more, right? Its kind of hard to argue against it)

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11-19-2008, 03:25 PM
  #86
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Winning heals all wounds.

Are we boring to watch? I would have to say yes, the vast majority of the recent games have been really boring to watch...almost painful at times. But the fact that every game is close (because we don't score much and have a great and very cute goalie) means every game is exciting at least at the end.

But I have to agree with fans who say it would not be fair to complain about the Devils style of hockey all these years, and then announce our games aren't boring because we're winning. Can't have it both ways.

What I disliked was how often Joe Micheletti would tell us we were watching a puck pursuit team, when we all know the Rangers rely on the trap 80% of the time. In the last week or two Micheletti has backed off those statements.

Here are some undeniable truths about our style of play:

1. (and by far most importantly) You can win a Stanley Cup with this style of play. You won't gather many fans along the way from other teams when their team is out of the playoffs, but who cares?

2. This style of play relies greatly on outstanding goaltending, which we've been getting. Henrik can say all he wants about enjoying tight games because it keeps him focused, but I doubt he'd complain if we scored more goals.

3. Just like the Devils with Brodeur, if Henrik goes into a slump (which he has been known to do over the winter months in prior years), or Heaven help us gets hurt again, and this style won't work for very long. One more goal against in the Bruin game, or the Senator game, or so many games before that, and the game is lost. Right now the words 'slump' and Henrik do not belong in the same sentence, but it's happened before, and it can happen again.

4. Going to the Garden is not the same experience it used to be. It just isn't, and anyone who has been going for 20 years like I have can't deny it. I was ten years old when I first started going to games in 1986, and Garden crowds are what sold me on being a Ranger fan. Every game the crowd was electric, the National Anthem was drowned out, and the fans were a factor teams spoke about before coming to the Garden.

It's not like that anymore. I've been to three games so far this season, and the crowd gets into goals, fights and hits, but they're much more reactive now. Back then it seemed like we were the ones creating the wild atmosphere...now we wait for the team to do something on the ice. The Bruin game Saturday night seemed like I was in a library until the third period.

Say what you want about the strike or so many losing seasons or whatever, but a lot of buildings have much more life than ours does now. Montreal is crazy. Chicago fans are getting their 'Chicago Stadium' type mojo back. Buffalo. Philadelphia. Calgary. Even Carolina fans seem more into the game than Ranger fans right now.

Is this a product of the team's passive style?

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Old
11-19-2008, 03:33 PM
  #87
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Either way you put it people are going to argue whos fault it is.

The fault of the PP is in the hands of the players. Watch any other successful PP and all you see is movement and shots. Our players don't move. We are so predictable. We have nobody to take charge offensively, and nobody that wants to take charge.

ES.... that's a given. We work hard and keep pucks out of our own net. I'm particularly a fan of lower scoring games, and solid defensive hockey. It depends on yourself, but the games aren't being just because someone says they are, and as always, nobody's forcing you to watch them.

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11-19-2008, 03:50 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Winning heals all wounds.

Are we boring to watch? I would have to say yes, the vast majority of the recent games have been really boring to watch...almost painful at times. But the fact that every game is close (because we don't score much and have a great and very cute goalie) means every game is exciting at least at the end.

But I have to agree with fans who say it would not be fair to complain about the Devils style of hockey all these years, and then announce our games aren't boring because we're winning. Can't have it both ways.

What I disliked was how often Joe Micheletti would tell us we were watching a puck pursuit team, when we all know the Rangers rely on the trap 80% of the time. In the last week or two Micheletti has backed off those statements.

Here are some undeniable truths about our style of play:

1. (and by far most importantly) You can win a Stanley Cup with this style of play. You won't gather many fans along the way from other teams when their team is out of the playoffs, but who cares?

2. This style of play relies greatly on outstanding goaltending, which we've been getting. Henrik can say all he wants about enjoying tight games because it keeps him focused, but I doubt he'd complain if we scored more goals.

3. Just like the Devils with Brodeur, if Henrik goes into a slump (which he has been known to do over the winter months in prior years), or Heaven help us gets hurt again, and this style won't work for very long. One more goal against in the Bruin game, or the Senator game, or so many games before that, and the game is lost. Right now the words 'slump' and Henrik do not belong in the same sentence, but it's happened before, and it can happen again.

4. Going to the Garden is not the same experience it used to be. It just isn't, and anyone who has been going for 20 years like I have can't deny it. I was ten years old when I first started going to games in 1986, and Garden crowds are what sold me on being a Ranger fan. Every game the crowd was electric, the National Anthem was drowned out, and the fans were a factor teams spoke about before coming to the Garden.

It's not like that anymore. I've been to three games so far this season, and the crowd gets into goals, fights and hits, but they're much more reactive now. Back then it seemed like we were the ones creating the wild atmosphere...now we wait for the team to do something on the ice. The Bruin game Saturday night seemed like I was in a library until the third period.

Say what you want about the strike or so many losing seasons or whatever, but a lot of buildings have much more life than ours does now. Montreal is crazy. Chicago fans are getting their 'Chicago Stadium' type mojo back. Buffalo. Philadelphia. Calgary. Even Carolina fans seem more into the game than Ranger fans right now.

Is this a product of the team's passive style?
the reason why the games arent exciting is that we are boring. period.

when we go 10 minutes between shots on net. um, thats boring.

when we throw no hits until halfway through a period. boring.

when our style of play snufs out the opposition in the neutral zone, and most of the play is void of any odd man rushes or quality chances, and features mostly clogged up neutral zone turnovers and missed passes, although good for the goals against....its boring.

when our power(less)play can manage to go 0-5 and have maybe 4 shots on net with no real good scoring chances. um, hello...boring

when we rely on hank to win games for us every night we begin to take him for granted and that will also get... boring.

so, i guess what im trying to say is i agree that many (most) nights the garden does sound like a library and thats sad. the first period of home games is brutal to watch with our continued lack of passion leading to lackadaisical play and unwatchable snoozefest hockey.

isnt it funny, the garden is taking on the personality of our team and our headcoach... composed, studious, quiet, reserved, relaxed, calm and BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!

yeah... but were in first place.


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Old
11-19-2008, 04:19 PM
  #89
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"It's a mindset," Renney said. "In fairness to our guys, in terms of how we prepare ourselves to play a game and start it, there are fundamental issues we want to operate on and in their best interests of concentrating on that maybe they've been stifled a little bit from just opening up the gate and letting them go. They're such a conscientious group, they want so badly to do the right things, maybe to a point we've stifled them, maybe we've got them thinking too much. Go play. Just go play hockey and see what happens

that pretty much says it all..........

yeah right, renney and his system isnt to blame for our boring style.

let em play tommy boy, let the talent play...... open em up a tad and see what happens.

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11-19-2008, 04:23 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
"It's a mindset," Renney said. "In fairness to our guys, in terms of how we prepare ourselves to play a game and start it, there are fundamental issues we want to operate on and in their best interests of concentrating on that maybe they've been stifled a little bit from just opening up the gate and letting them go. They're such a conscientious group, they want so badly to do the right things, maybe to a point we've stifled them, maybe we've got them thinking too much. Go play. Just go play hockey and see what happens

that pretty much says it all..........

yeah right, renney and his system isnt to blame for our boring style.

let em play tommy boy, let the talent play...... open em up a tad and see what happens.

what happens is Renney gets frustrated w/ a turnover and benches players... ala Zherdev.

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Old
11-19-2008, 04:28 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post

yeah right, renney and his system isnt to blame for our boring style.

let em play tommy boy, let the talent play...... open em up a tad and see what happens.
Change a style that has us 14-5-2? If Renney changes something and we start losing more even a little more than we are now, people on here will want his head on a plate.

A coach just can't make everyone happy...

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11-20-2008, 10:55 AM
  #92
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Unfortunately last night they illustrated my point.

Playing passive hockey, with extremely uninspired first periods that put the crowd to sleep, only works if your goalie is standing on his head night after night.

When your goalie proves he's mortal, last night happens...

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