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Z. Parise or M. Richards?

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Old
11-18-2008, 05:42 PM
  #101
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You keep saying it's just your opinion and you're just discussing hockey, but claiming they only gave him a 'C' to save money in negotiations is a different story. People have given tons of reasons why he deserves the C, and your only excuses are "not enough experience" and "giving out C's to sweeten the deal happens all the time".

The first one is just an opinion, and that's fine. But give me some examples of players who were given letters like candy so that the team could gain an advantage in contract negotiations?

Don't bother replying unless you have a nice sized list of names.

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11-18-2008, 05:45 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by BerubeBox View Post
You keep saying it's just your opinion and you're just discussing hockey, but claiming they only gave him a 'C' to save money in negotiations is a different story. People have given tons of reasons why he deserves the C, and your only excuses are "not enough experience" and "giving out C's to sweeten the deal happens all the time".

The first one is just an opinion, and that's fine. But give me some examples of players who were given letters like candy so that the team could gain an advantage in contract negotiations?

Don't bother replying unless you have a nice sized list of names.
obviously non of us are in there so i would be speculating but, luongo and crosby are the first that come to mind

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11-18-2008, 05:59 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
Richards is the better leader, of course, but Parise isn't a light-year behind him.

Parise and Richards is, in my mind, one of the best comparables in the NHL in terms of the whole package they each bring to their respective hockey club.

Edit: And Richards absolutely has earned the C on his hockey team. He is the captain of the Flyers whether he wears the letter or not, so he might as well wear the letter. The captain of the Devils, despite the C on Langenbrunner's jersey, is Brodeur and that will remain true until he retires. I think Parise should wear the C for the Devils, being that he's been the only guy on the team to show up every night and give it everything he's got on the ice - and have the skill to back up his effort.
CD, for what it is worth, i would have given the C to John Madden over Parise or anyone else for that matter. I think Madden brings it nearly every night...beside Marty of course who runsthe show.
I really think that Parise doesnt need to be captain on the Devils. He eventually may, but he doesn't need to be in that role yet. Let him play his game and lead by his play, there is a team full of captains around him to take care of that.....

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11-18-2008, 06:01 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
Richards is the better leader, of course, but Parise isn't a light-year behind him.

Parise and Richards is, in my mind, one of the best comparables in the NHL in terms of the whole package they each bring to their respective hockey club.

Edit: And Richards absolutely has earned the C on his hockey team. He is the captain of the Flyers whether he wears the letter or not, so he might as well wear the letter. The captain of the Devils, despite the C on Langenbrunner's jersey, is Brodeur and that will remain true until he retires. I think Parise should wear the C for the Devils, being that he's been the only guy on the team to show up every night and give it everything he's got on the ice - and have the skill to back up his effort.
thats the bottom line, alot of guys work hard night in and night out, but parise does it and is able to put up pts so he looks better. he does deserve all the credit he gets though

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11-18-2008, 06:27 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
you dont think that after the inital excitement set in flyers fans even had ANY of these thoughts cross their mind?
I will be perfectly honest with you, I had my concerns with Richards being named captain. Actually, "concerns" is probably the wrong word. My take is that I would have been perfectly content with Timonen receiving the "C", and giving Richards more time before assuming the responsibility. That would have made sense to me, and I would have been OK with that scenario.

But the fact is that Flyers felt it was Richards' time, and they know better than the rest of us, or at least they should.

I respect your opinion that you believe that Richards didn't "earn" the captaincy, I just disagree with it. But you've taken enough bashing in here, and your assessment of the situation is as valid as anyone elses, whether we agree or not.

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11-18-2008, 06:38 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
I will be perfectly honest with you, I had my concerns with Richards being named captain. Actually, "concerns" is probably the wrong word. My take is that I would have been perfectly content with Timonen receiving the "C", and giving Richards more time before assuming the responsibility. That would have made sense to me, and I would have been OK with that scenario.

But the fact is that Flyers felt it was Richards' time, and they know better than the rest of us, or at least they should.

I respect your opinion that you believe that Richards didn't "earn" the captaincy, I just disagree with it. But you've taken enough bashing in here, and your assessment of the situation is as valid as anyone elses, whether we agree or not.
i apreciate you respecting my opinion, this thread makes me look like i dont like richards, and thats not true at all i really like him and the way he plays. i think he is a great leader and will be even better but i dont think he should have gotten it in his 4th season. AND i dont think parise should have a letter either, even if he were on the flyers and vice versa, i dont think richards should have a letter on the devils. but thats a different argument which i dont want to get involved in

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Old
11-18-2008, 06:44 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
i apreciate you respecting my opinion, this thread makes me look like i dont like richards, and thats not true at all i really like him and the way he plays. i think he is a great leader and will be even better but i dont think he should have gotten it in his 4th season. AND i dont think parise should have a letter either, even if he were on the flyers and vice versa, i dont think richards should have a letter on the devils. but thats a different argument which i dont want to get involved in
Richards should definetly have a letter...you may argue that he don't deserve the C, but he certainly deserves at least an A.....

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11-18-2008, 06:46 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by gui View Post
Richards should definetly have a letter...you may argue that he don't deserve the C, but he certainly deserves at least an A.....
on the flyers, yea, if he were on teh devils, because like ClarksonFalls said, we ahve alot of guys left from teh cup yaers

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Old
11-18-2008, 10:24 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Clarkson Falls Down View Post
Oy, ve Gunnar.

A leader is a leader. It doesn't matter what age he is or "how much he has accomplished in the NHL".

If you took out the names, the ages, and the past accomplishments of every player on the Flyers and just took a look at each player's leadership qualities, Richards would have the best resume. End of story. Richards is the best player to lead that team and that's all that matters.

As for those folks saying "Richards and it isn't even close" you're as much out to lunch here as Gunnar.

I'll take Richards, for now, but by a little bit.
Aside from that last sentence, I agree with your post. If the Devils had drafted Richards and he followed the exact same developmental path as he has done throughout his career, he would not be the captain of the Devils. The Flyers the last couple seasons have been a revolving door for players and the only reason there was not to make him captain was that he was too young. Its not the same situation as Parise. If Langenbrunner magically dissappeared (godforbid, but wouldn't surprise me the way this season is going), there are plenty of Devils that have shown loyalty to the Devils, that have been staples with the organization, that would be in line well before Parise.

That doesn't mean that Parise is not a leader though, which is what I'm reading in this thread. I have said that he might be in line for an 'A' and got grilled for it because of all the veterans in front of him. However, I do believe that the team follows Parise's example. This is pretty cliche, but he comes to play every night, and Sutter has the most faith in him out of all our scoring forwards. He gets the most ice-time night in and night out. I have no doubt in my mind that when Parise gains more seniority, that he will have the 'C' on his chest. Afterall, he wore an 'A' for the United States during the World Championships. Parise possesses all the qualities of a natural born leader. He is humble, he leads by example, and he has absolutely zero quit in him. As a matter of fact, if he were drafted by he Flyers instead of Richards, he could have been captain of Philadelphia instead of Richards.

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Old
11-18-2008, 10:33 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionHockey View Post
Aside from that last sentence, I agree with your post. If the Devils had drafted Richards and he followed the exact same developmental path as he has done throughout his career, he would not be the captain of the Devils. The Flyers the last couple seasons have been a revolving door for players and the only reason there was not to make him captain was that he was too young. Its not the same situation as Parise. If Langenbrunner magically dissappeared (godforbid, but wouldn't surprise me the way this season is going), there are plenty of Devils that have shown loyalty to the Devils, that have been staples with the organization, that would be in line well before Parise.

That doesn't mean that Parise is not a leader though, which is what I'm reading in this thread. I have said that he might be in line for an 'A' and got grilled for it because of all the veterans in front of him. However, I do believe that the team follows Parise's example. This is pretty cliche, but he comes to play every night, and Sutter has the most faith in him out of all our scoring forwards. He gets the most ice-time night in and night out. I have no doubt in my mind that when Parise gains more seniority, that he will have the 'C' on his chest. Afterall, he wore an 'A' for the United States during the World Championships. Parise possesses all the qualities of a natural born leader. He is humble, he leads by example, and he has absolutely zero quit in him. As a matter of fact, if he were drafted by he Flyers instead of Richards, he could have been captain of Philadelphia instead of Richards.
Who was the captain of the US team?

I just don't think that's true...Kimmo Timmonen is a hell of a leader and almost had it this year. Richards is up on Parise in the leadership I think and would be the captain...just about anywhere minus the obvious two Colorado (Sakic) or 'Troit (Lidstrom). He's just goooood

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11-18-2008, 10:40 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Who was the captain of the US team?

I just don't think that's true...Kimmo Timmonen is a hell of a leader and almost had it this year. Richards is up on Parise in the leadership I think and would be the captain...just about anywhere minus the obvious two Colorado (Sakic) or 'Troit (Lidstrom). He's just goooood
Jeff Halpern captained the US team. Anyway, its a moot point considering Richards is not getting traded, but I can tell you for sure that last statement is pretty absurd. For NHL hockey teams there is normally a hierarchy in the lockroom and if and ran down the list I can tell you for sure he wouldn't unseat half of those players.

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11-18-2008, 10:49 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by MissionHockey View Post
Jeff Halpern captained the US team. Anyway, its a moot point considering Richards is not getting traded, but I can tell you for sure that last statement is pretty absurd. For NHL hockey teams there is normally a hierarchy in the lockroom and if and ran down the list I can tell you for sure he wouldn't unseat half of those players.
yea, richards would not be captain on most teams right now with a decent amount of veteran leadership

i can probably name 20 teams richards wouldnt be captain of now

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11-18-2008, 10:52 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
yea, richards would not be captain on most teams right now with a decent amount of veteran leadership

i can probably name 20 teams richards wouldnt be captain of now
shouldnt of said that, now someone is going to ask you for a list

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11-18-2008, 10:53 PM
  #114
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shouldnt of said that, now someone is going to ask you for a list
i know, before i typed it i made sure i could, and i think i can

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11-18-2008, 10:54 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
i know, before i typed it i made sure i could, and i think i can
well then good for you hahahaa

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11-18-2008, 10:55 PM
  #116
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well then good for you hahahaa
i know how the HFers are, its just a matter of time before someone calls me out

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11-18-2008, 10:57 PM
  #117
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Richards, not by much.

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11-18-2008, 10:58 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
yea, richards would not be captain on most teams right now with a decent amount of veteran leadership

i can probably name 20 teams richards wouldnt be captain of now
List them all, damnit!

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11-18-2008, 11:17 PM
  #119
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List them all, damnit!
i might as well get it over with

det
ott
dal
nyr
njd
ana
sj
mtl
bos
cal
car
col
edm
tb
wsh

thats 15

i would say these are debateable

tor
van
minny


so about 15 i feel comfortable saying he would not be and a few more a debateable

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11-18-2008, 11:25 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
i might as well get it over with

det
ott
dal
nyr
njd
ana
sj
mtl
bos
cal
car
col
edm
tb
wsh

thats 15

i would say these are debateable

tor
van
minny


so about 15 i feel comfortable saying he would not be and a few more a debateable
loungo >>the world


as a devils fan its richards but its very close, but i still wouldnt trade him straight up for richards

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Old
11-19-2008, 12:17 AM
  #121
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Parise is a better goal scorer
Richards is the better passer
Richards is the better defender
Parise has a slight edge in work ethic
Richards has a "C" however he is on a team with not nearly the veteran leadership that Parise is on so different circumstances.

Too close to call

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11-19-2008, 03:16 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
i know how the HFers are, its just a matter of time before someone calls me out
I might as well go for it too. I'll list the captains as well.

Anahiem-Niedermayer
Boston-Chara
Calgary-Iginla
Carolina-Brindamore
Colorado-Sakic
Colombus-Nash
Dallas-Morrow
Detriot-Lidstrom
Edmonton-Moreau
Montreal-Koivu
Nashville-Arnott
New Jersey-Langenbrunner
New York-Drury
Ottawa-Alfredsson
Phoenix-Doan
Pittsburgh-Crosby
San Jose-Marleau
Tampa Bay-Lecavalier

Thats 18.

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Old
11-19-2008, 09:03 AM
  #123
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Would love to see Mike Richards in a Bruins uniform 1 day

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Old
11-19-2008, 12:09 PM
  #124
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Easily Richards, but Parise is the one deb I actually like.

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Old
11-19-2008, 01:19 PM
  #125
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What are people using to garner the leadership of a certain player?

Honest question, because people tend to throw out, "______ is a great leader".. It's not like any of us played with them.. Are you going by what other players say?

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