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Old
11-19-2008, 11:50 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Shake and Bake View Post
Def. agree with that, but wasn't it already declining in terms of popularity even when it was still on espn? Well, the sport would certainly be in better shape if it were on espn, but do you think it would still be a distant fourth?
I don't remember what the state was before the lockout. But coming out of lockout they needed to be back on ESPN — even if it meant leaving some money on the table.

1) The league had just missed an entire season.
2) There was excitement about the new rules (stricter calling of interference penalties, shoot outs, no center ice red line)
3) The supposed "Next One" is Crosby had arrived.

Instead he chose a network that few had heard of and several cable providers weren't carrying. And that network has not shown an abilty to market itself. Certainly not like ESPN did and when ESPN advertised their coverage of the NHL, they were basically advertising the NHL as well.

Most glaring might be the fact that I can't tell what channel OLN/VS is. And it's not in my mind when I'm flipping channels.

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11-19-2008, 11:52 AM
  #27
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the whole 'goal is to sell more papers' argument is total BS. People are going to buy the post/DN no matter what. It is daily ritual for a lot of people. Stop for a coffee and the paper. Most people don't even look at the cover when they buy. They just grab it and go. So what if there is a rangers cover here and there during a time of the year when the Yankees aint playing.
Nope. Papers want to sell as many papers as they can. That increases their circulation. And that means they can charge more to advertisers who want to run adds in their paper.

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11-19-2008, 11:52 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by flankerbill13 View Post
I think you're wrong about that. While hockey is not near the top, I think it has been gaining on basketball as a more popular sport. Definitely not a "Distant Fourth". And if the trend continues where the Rangers are getting better and the Yankees and Mets keep failing, it might even gain on baseball. Long shot, but a possibility.

This city wants winners, that's what will make hockey successful.
Thats's not true at all. Both teams are world series contenders

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11-19-2008, 11:54 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by ogie View Post
the whole 'goal is to sell more papers' argument is total BS. People are going to buy the post/DN no matter what. It is daily ritual for a lot of people. Stop for a coffee and the paper. Most people don't even look at the cover when they buy. They just grab it and go. So what if there is a rangers cover here and there during a time of the year when the Yankees aint playing.
As someone who has worked as an editor for a daily newspaper, I assure you it is not. Especially given the current state of newspapers in this day and age. They're in no position to turn off any potential readers.

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11-19-2008, 11:56 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't remember what the state was before the lockout. But coming out of lockout they needed to be back on ESPN even if it meant leaving some money on the table.

1) The league had just missed an entire season.
2) There was excitement about the new rules (stricter calling of interference penalties, shoot outs, no center ice red line)
3) The supposed "Next One" is Crosby had arrived.

Instead he chose a network that few had heard of and several cable providers weren't carrying. And that network has not shown an abilty to market itself. Certainly not like ESPN did and when ESPN advertised their coverage of the NHL, they were basically advertising the NHL as well.

Most glaring might be the fact that I can't tell what channel OLN/VS is. And it's not in my mind when I'm flipping channels.
Yea, it really was amazingly stupid they left espn...are you sure espn offered to have them back, just on a much ceaper deal?

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11-19-2008, 11:57 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Shake and Bake View Post
Yea, it really was amazingly stupid they left espn...are you sure espn offered to have them back, just on a much ceaper deal?
I don't recall the specifics, but I do know that OLN (as VS was called at the time) offered the most money.

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11-19-2008, 11:58 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
As someone who has worked as an editor for a daily newspaper, I assure you it is not. Especially given the current state of newspapers in this day and age. They're in no position to turn off any potential readers.
And advertisers.

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11-19-2008, 11:59 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
As someone who has worked as an editor for a daily newspaper, I assure you it is not. Especially given the current state of newspapers in this day and age. They're in no position to turn off any potential readers.
so you're telling me that all the people i see grabbing the post or news in the morning are gonna stop because the Rangers are on the back cover every once in a while instead of what A-rod is doing in the off-season?

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11-19-2008, 12:06 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by ogie View Post
so you're telling me that all the people i see grabbing the post or news in the morning are gonna stop because the Rangers are on the back cover every once in a while instead of what A-rod is doing in the off-season?
Not all, but some.

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11-19-2008, 12:07 PM
  #35
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Not all, but some.
And I would also have to think there's also a great need to keep your current readers.

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11-19-2008, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Shake and Bake View Post
Thats's not true at all. Both teams are world series contenders
thats why the mets collapsed two year in a row and the yankees failed to make the playoffs?

you can only buy a championship team for so long before it turns around and bites you.

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11-19-2008, 12:27 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
And I would also have to think there's also a great need to keep your current readers.
printed media is dying, and I doubt it's the sports page that most people buy the paper for

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11-19-2008, 12:27 PM
  #38
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And then there is this new trend of giving away a version of the paper free at subway stations. Even the Times does this now. Must be hard times.

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11-19-2008, 12:30 PM
  #39
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I have to be honest, I think that the papers and media DETERMINE what's important to the masses, not vice versa....
It is a bit of a two-way street with marketing having an impact on popularity and you could say that good media coverage is as good as any marketing done. Having said all that, how many High Schools in lower NY and Long Island have ice hockey teams? Compare that to how many have Football, Baseball, and Basketball teams? There is no doubt that playing a sport or having friends/families that play on a local team has a huge impact on the popularity of a sport.....nearly everyone in Canada plays hockey.

I've always felt the NHL should work, closely, with school districts in their areas to develop and even fund ice hockey programs. It would be an investment that would lead to more fans and a farm system that would generate more talent. NHL clubs could own and operate small rinks throughout their markets to help foster local school programs. I know there are things done now like Hockey in Harlem and the such, but there could be a lot more done. I grew up in a fairly large school district on Long Island where the district never had the money or a nearby arena for an ice hockey team. Still there were dozens of kids who played ice hockey in public leagues and hundreds of kids who played roller hockey at a variety of different rinks and nearby parking lots. Most of those who played roller and not ice did so because of cost and the lack of an ice rink.

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11-19-2008, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by flankerbill13 View Post
printed media is dying, and I doubt it's the sports page that most people buy the paper for
If the print media is dying, then its damn important to keep your current readers. Personally, I would never buy the Post of News for real news.

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11-19-2008, 12:33 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by flankerbill13 View Post
thats why the mets collapsed two year in a row and the yankees failed to make the playoffs?

you can only buy a championship team for so long before it turns around and bites you.
It doesn't matter, both teams are expected to compete and they by and large do.

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11-19-2008, 12:34 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
If the print media is dying, then its damn important to keep your current readers.
Again, I doubt the sports page is what people are buying the paper for. Maybe after a big win or a trade, but not on a day to day basis.

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11-19-2008, 12:36 PM
  #43
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Again, I doubt the sports page is what people are buying the paper for. Maybe after a big win or a trade, but not on a day to day basis.
I fail to see what this has to do with anything.

It's important to get those readers who do make a choice every morning to choose your paper. And it's important to keep the readers you have. And that's in all sections.

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11-19-2008, 12:37 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
It doesn't matter, both teams are expected to compete and they by and large do.
I firmly believe that elevated ticket prices at the new stadiums, and if they have a drought where neither team makes the playoffs, you will start to see the decline of the casual baseball fan.

That's where hockey could potentially gain ground

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11-19-2008, 12:39 PM
  #45
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I firmly believe that elevated ticket prices at the new stadiums, and if they have a drought where neither team makes the playoffs, you will start to see the decline of the casual baseball fan.

That's where hockey could potentially gain ground
I wouldn't hold my breath.

The two don't really compete for attention. Baseball is played in the summer and hockey is played in the winter.

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11-19-2008, 12:40 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I fail to see what this has to do with anything.

It's important to get those readers who do make a choice every morning to choose your paper. And it's important to keep the readers you have. And that's in all sections.
right....so alienating a whole fan base by barely covering their sport will help sales...I don't see the logic

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11-19-2008, 12:43 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I wouldn't hold my breath.

The two don't really compete for attention. Baseball is played in the summer and hockey is played in the winter.
true, but you would see the difference in the spring. That's when they compete for media attention.

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11-19-2008, 12:43 PM
  #48
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right....so alienating a whole fan base by barely covering their sport will help sales...I don't see the logic
Do you buy the papers? If so, they haven't alienated you.

And if they have to alienate some fans to please the greater number of fans, that's they will do (and that is what they do).

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11-19-2008, 12:43 PM
  #49
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The jets and giants are in first place, there is very little chance of the Rangers getting the backpages until after football season.

Not to mention Hot Stove baseball and Hanky Steinbrenner outbidding himself on the top free agents.

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11-19-2008, 12:45 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by flankerbill13 View Post
true, but you would see the difference in the spring. That's when they compete for media attention.
Actually, they really won't. Seeing how baseball is getting greater coverage now and they Mets and Yankees haven't played since September, I don't see them ever competing for media attention.

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