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Old
11-19-2008, 01:45 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Do you buy the papers? If so, they haven't alienated you.

And if they have to alienate some fans to please the greater number of fans, that's they will do (and that is what they do).
Anyone with any working knowledge of sales or marketing would tell you to appeal to as many demo's as possibly especially when sales are down. I'm not saying that it isn't happening, cause it clearly is, but that doesn't make it a smart business move

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11-19-2008, 01:49 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Actually, they really won't. Seeing how baseball is getting greater coverage now and they Mets and Yankees haven't played since September, I don't see them ever competing for media attention.

still a competition, even if someone is winning it...right?

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11-19-2008, 01:50 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by flankerbill13 View Post
Anyone with any working knowledge of sales or marketing would tell you to appeal to as many demo's as possibly especially when sales are down. I'm not saying that it isn't happening, cause it clearly is, but that doesn't make it a smart business move
I don't know. You appeal to the most people -> more people buy your product, more often -> more people read your newspaper -> advertisers want to reach as many people as possible which your paper does -> media costs to run ads goes up -> between the increase in sales of you paper and the increase in ad revenue, you make more money.

How is it not a smart business move?

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11-19-2008, 01:51 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by flankerbill13 View Post
still a competition, even if someone is winning it...right?
I could play a game of tennis against Roger Federer and lose 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 was I competing? In theory. In actuality, no way.

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11-19-2008, 01:52 PM
  #55
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It's also worth mentioning that the reporter is basically just copying and pasting Sam Weinman's blog.

Daily News today:
Quote:
The Rangers this week seem to be trapped in one long episode of "This Is Your Life." First, Wade Redden played his first game against the team with whom he spent his first 12 NHL years...
Weinman blog 11/17:
Quote:
Wade Redden, this is your life
Naturally there was the obligatory media scrum around Wade Redden downstairs just now, when we asked the former Ottawa defenseman about playing his old team. The plan is to re-enact the same scene Wednesday when Markus Naslund faces Vancouver.
It's possible that they both thought up "this is your life" on their own but I have no reason to give the daily news the benefit of the doubt considering they can't even identify the player they're writing an entire article about.

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11-19-2008, 01:55 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't know. You appeal to the most people -> more people buy your product, more often -> more people read your newspaper -> advertisers want to reach as many people as possible which your paper does -> media costs to run ads goes up -> between the increase in sales of you paper and the increase in ad revenue, you make more money.

How is it not a smart business move?
Most (if not all) papers have a lackluster coverage of hockey. let's say 90% of buyers don't care about hockey -> no paper covers hockey -> your paper decides to cover hockey without cutting down other sports -> you get the 10% alienated customers -> you possibly get ad space at the three arenas in the area -> sales go up as a result

smarter business move

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11-19-2008, 01:58 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I could play a game of tennis against Roger Federer and lose 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 was I competing? In theory. In actuality, no way.
"In Theory" you get destroyed for years, Federer has a few bad games, you get better, you win, you're in the limlight, people are now intrested in you, you gain popularity

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11-19-2008, 02:00 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by flankerbill13 View Post
Most (if not all) papers have a lackluster coverage of hockey. let's say 90% of buyers don't care about hockey -> no paper covers hockey -> your paper decides to cover hockey without cutting down other sports -> you get the 10% alienated customers -> you possibly get ad space at the three arenas in the area -> sales go up as a result

smarter business move
Your talking about expanding the entire sports section. And that costs money.

3 guys who don't care about hockey are upset because that an extra page of hockey coverage means there's only two pages of baseball coverage. But that other paper has three pages of baseball coverage. I'm a baseball fan who hates hockey and thinks Zherdev is a new male-enhancement drug. What paper am I buying?

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11-19-2008, 02:03 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by flankerbill13 View Post
"In Theory" you get destroyed for years, Federer has a few bad games, you get better, you win, you're in the limlight, people are now intrested in you, you gain popularity
To stick with the example: Federer doesn't bad games. And people really don't know or care about me. I'm still not competing.

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11-19-2008, 02:06 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by flankerbill13 View Post
Anyone with any working knowledge of sales or marketing would tell you to appeal to as many demo's as possibly especially when sales are down. I'm not saying that it isn't happening, cause it clearly is, but that doesn't make it a smart business move
Actually, the most important thing to do when sales are down is to maintain your current customer base. Trying to appeal to as many people as possible sounds like a great idea, but when you're on a limited budget the way that newspapers are right now, it's a much better idea to stick to what you're good at.

Let's say you're the editor of the Daily News and have 9 reporters at your disposal. By spreading them out evenly between all the local sports teams you may get the most wide ranging coverage, but none of it is going to be very in-depth. On the other hand, if you put more resources into the popular sports, the ones that you know people are going to want to read about, then you're going to satisfy them at the expense of alienating the much smaller sample of hockey fans.

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11-19-2008, 02:06 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Your talking about expanding the entire sports section. And that costs money.

3 guys who don't care about hockey are upset because that an extra page of hockey coverage means there's only two pages of baseball coverage. But that other paper has three pages of baseball coverage. I'm a baseball fan who hates hockey and thinks Zherdev is a new male-enhancement drug. What paper am I buying?
1 or 2 pages could be made up in sales of the paper. I'm not saying a full hockey section, just enough to make the 10% happy enough to buy the paper.

and quality >>> quantity. more material doesn't make it more appealing if it's garbage. So losing a page could possibly not hurt as long as the remaining 2 pages have high quality articles

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11-19-2008, 02:09 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by flankerbill13 View Post
1 or 2 pages could be made up in sales of the paper. I'm not saying a full hockey section, just enough to make the 10% happy enough to buy the paper.

and quality >>> quantity. more material doesn't make it more appealing if it's garbage. So losing a page could possibly not hurt as long as the remaining 2 pages have high quality articles
Spending valuable resources to appeal to 10% of your potential readership is NOT a smart business move.

As for the bolded part, see my post above.

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11-19-2008, 02:09 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by flankerbill13 View Post
1 or 2 pages could be made up in sales of the paper. I'm not saying a full hockey section, just enough to make the 10% happy enough to buy the paper.

and quality >>> quantity. more material doesn't make it more appealing if it's garbage. So losing a page could possibly not hurt as long as the remaining 2 pages have high quality articles
You're saying this as a hockey fan.

And I don't know how you are gaining sales if the football, baseball and basketball fans are going somewhere else that offers them more coverage of their sport.

By why stop at hockey? What about the NASCAR fans? The Winter Sports fans? What about their media coverage?

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11-19-2008, 02:11 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
To stick with the example: Federer doesn't bad games. And people really don't know or care about me. I'm still not competing.
hence the "in theory" part...just trying to dismiss your exmaple by saying anything is possible given the circumstance

and haven't you heard of a Cinderella Story? you wouldn't be interested in the underdog that unseated the champion?....I'll be sure to let the 1980 hockey team know

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11-19-2008, 02:15 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by flankerbill13 View Post
hence the "in theory" part...just trying to dismiss your exmaple by saying anything is possible given the circumstance

and haven't you heard of a Cinderella Story? you wouldn't be interested in the underdog that unseated the champion?....I'll be sure to let the 1980 hockey team know
Now you've lost me.

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11-19-2008, 02:16 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
You're saying this as a hockey fan.

And I don't know how you are gaining sales if the football, baseball and basketball fans are going somewhere else that offers them more coverage of their sport.

By why stop at hockey? What about the NASCAR fans? The Winter Sports fans? What about their media coverage?
You're right? why not? If they approve the Nascar track that they want to put in the NY/NJ area, you don't think it would benefit? You don't think the snowbird nascar fans would would want to read about their sport on a more regular basis when they move back for the summer?

you must have missed the part where I said higher quality>>> quantity. I'm saying if done right it can be a very useful tool

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11-19-2008, 02:17 PM
  #67
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I remember turning on ESPN last year during the NHL playoffs....and they had rodeo, and a freeking spelling B on. How the heck is that more of a popular choice than hockey??????????????????
Have you ever watched a spelling B before?











it is ****ing exhilarating

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11-19-2008, 02:19 PM
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You're right? why not? If they approve the Nascar track that they want to put in the NY/NJ area, you don't think it would benefit? You don't think the snowbird nascar fans would would want to read about their sport on a more regular basis when they move back for the summer?

you must have missed the part where I said higher quality>>> quantity. I'm saying if done right it can be a very useful tool
It can also be very expensive as clmetsfan spelled out so nicely.

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11-19-2008, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
The ratings for the NHL in the US were at an all time high in June of 1994. The league, Bettman, pretty much threw that all away. Defensive hockey taking over didnt help the cause.

Whatever, NHL hockey has always been this cool kinda club I share with friends and people I meet. Every girlfriend i've had I've turned onto hockey and theyve become fans. But not everyone is into it, and i'm fine with that.
I think the all-time high in Ratings was 1996. Highest rated Cup was Detroit-Philly in 97' followed by the one in 2000'

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=346372

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11-19-2008, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by flankerbill13 View Post
You're right? why not? If they approve the Nascar track that they want to put in the NY/NJ area, you don't think it would benefit? You don't think the snowbird nascar fans would would want to read about their sport on a more regular basis when they move back for the summer?

you must have missed the part where I said higher quality>>> quantity. I'm saying if done right it can be a very useful tool
You don't seem to get basic economics. In order to expand coverage and maintain quality, you have to spend money. Newspapers don't have money to spend right now, so they're not going to go out of their way to appeal to a very small portion of their potential readership.

Do you think it'd be a good idea right now for Starbucks to branch out and develop a new clothing line because they think 10% of the population might go for it?

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11-19-2008, 02:24 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
To stick with the example: Federer doesn't (Have?)bad games. And people really don't know or care about me. I'm still not competing.
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Now you've lost me.
tried to fill in your missing word.

what I was trying to say was interest is heightened if an unknown unseats the champion. To what degree depends on the situation, but you would still be in competition

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11-19-2008, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
You don't seem to get basic economics. In order to expand coverage and maintain quality, you have to spend money. Newspapers don't have money to spend right now, so they're not going to go out of their way to appeal to a very small portion of their potential readership.

Do you think it'd be a good idea right now for Starbucks to branch out and develop a new clothing line because they think 10% of the population might go for it?
no i understand economics, and I wasn't saying do it Now, it was a general business idea. In a recession, I agree spending is hard to justify. If times are good, and the company can afford it, then the return might justify the costs.

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11-19-2008, 02:33 PM
  #73
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tried to fill in your missing word.

what I was trying to say was interest is heightened if an unknown unseats the champion. To what degree depends on the situation, but you would still be in competition
I still don't where you're going with this.

Federer = baseball

Me = hockey.

Can hockey compete against baseball? Can I compete against Federer? In theory, hockey can. In theory, I can. But if I'm getting beat 6-0, 6-0, 6-0, am I competing not really.

When you start talking about the 80 Miracle on Ice, you start to lose me in this lovely analogy I've started.

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11-19-2008, 02:39 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I still don't where you're going with this.

Federer = baseball

Me = hockey.

Can hockey compete against baseball? Can I compete against Federer? In theory, hockey can. In theory, I can. But if I'm getting beat 6-0, 6-0, 6-0, am I competing not really.

When you start talking about the 80 Miracle on Ice, you start to lose me in this lovely analogy I've started.
let's try this again
"In Theory" you (hockey) get destroyed for years, Federer (baseball) has a few bad games (seasons) (in theory), you (hockey) get better, you (hockey) win, you're in the limlight, people (casual fans) are now interested in you, you (hockey) gain popularity.
not saying this will, or could ever happen...all in theory.
This is why I brought in Olympic hockey, no one thought they would win either... EVER....but I also doubt you will be playing Federer any time soon.

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11-19-2008, 02:39 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by flankerbill13 View Post
no i understand economics, and I wasn't saying do it Now, it was a general business idea. In a recession, I agree spending is hard to justify. If times are good, and the company can afford it, then the return might justify the costs.
The thing is that the state of newspapers has less to do with the recession and more to do with the changing state of media. Their readership is dwindling, and has been for a long time before the economy went in the crapper. Newspapers are not going to spend their money (at least not in print) on niche sports.

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