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Why is it always Guillaume that copes?

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Old
11-19-2008, 10:58 AM
  #276
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
It's called tsn.ca...check yourself.
It says 38 points projected there.

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11-19-2008, 11:10 AM
  #277
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Still doesn't explain why you think he's so good. What I see is a guy who gets rid of the puck the instant he gets it, shoots either floaters on the goalie or directly in people's skates, and doesn't crash the net like he should.

If he could shoot the puck all the time like he did last weekend on the goal he scored, AND placed himself well for shots then he'd be a lot more useful and not so invisible. Lats needs to get garbage goals and from the perimeter he won't get any. I'm amazed he hasn't learned that yet. Even Carbo says it.

It's not a lines thing at all.. it's about evaluating what Lats brings to the team, and it's very little. He'd be better off playing in the AHL and get 20 mins of ice a game.
I don't think Lats is good, I think he's average.
I don't think he's near as bad as some people say he is. Just look at what you're saying. If all this was true, there's not one person in here that would defend him. He'd already be scratched by now as well.

All you do is put your focus on Latendresse when right now, he's far from being our team's problem.
The Begin line was our best one yesterday, Lats was robbed by Ward in the first. Last time vs Philly, if Hartnell doesn't bump the net off, he would have had a goal as well.
I don't know what you expect from him..yes he does mistakes, but he works hard, he's laid out people, and got some chances.

Regardless, you're very much allowed to dislike him. But as far as I'm concerned this is a TEAM sport. Right now we look like crap, and that's far from being Lat's fault.

Kovalev isn't looking good.
Plekanec looks completely lost and playing like he did in POs.
Higgins has been a ghost since the OTT game, very much so like he was before that game.
Kost Broz are the biggest disappointment so far this season.

Those are the guys that made us reach the top spot in the East last season, NOT LATS.

So why whine about a player that gets 13min and does a decent job now on the 4th line??..

You are completely beside the point, it's not about if you think he's good or not.
Fact is Lats plays best with Koivu/Tang.
Fact is, Lats was getting pts and helping them out when he was used on PP.
Fact is Kovalev never played well with Koivu and we put 3players that like to stickhandle on the same line.
Fact is we put a 4th liner on 2nd line. For what reasons?..Don't know..
Fact is our PP is pretty much dead last by now.
Fact is Carbo changed our PP completely and it looks like crap.
Fact is our top players are underperforming much more than Lats is.

THOSE are the important facts to look at. Not a '' Is Lats good debate'', it simply doesn't matter.

Carbo's way of trying to improve things is by putting a fourth liner on 2nd line. That'll make us win games...sure..

Our PP isn't working, why does he insist on putting Markov on the right point with Tang on the left??..Why??..
Why not put A.Kost that has a bullet on the right point??..
Why don't we put Lats on PP with Koivu/Tang, see if he can make some things happen with his body in front??
Why not put Lats back with Koivu/Tang 5on5, cuz you know it can work, and put Kovalev with Plek/Higgy???..Instead of giving us a 1st line that doesn't work and a 2nd line looking like a fourth line.

Why???..Nothing seems to work..why not go back to some winning combinations??..Why not try new things on PP??..

You think Lats sucks, good for you. But he's still on our team, and now let's think about ways to improve our team as a whole with the players we currently have in hand.

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11-19-2008, 11:14 AM
  #278
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
It says 38 points projected there.
Ya..didn't I say he's on pace for about 40pts?..

Where was I wrong??..

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11-19-2008, 11:24 AM
  #279
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Originally Posted by fufonzo View Post
I thought he's played very well these last couple games.

Put him back on the top line with Koivu and Tanguay. That'll teach him that when he works hard, he gets promoted.

I do disagree that he's been one of our better players thus far this year, though.

Agreed, although I'd play him on the right side and keep Tanguay on the left side. It may not be a long term solution but he should give the line a bump for a few games. Carbo has to remove Kovy from that line.


Last edited by gillyguzzler: 11-19-2008 at 11:57 AM. Reason: typo
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11-19-2008, 11:50 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Ya..didn't I say he's on pace for about 40pts?..

Where was I wrong??..
You're not...I just think it's curious that you say he's on pace for "about 40" but when it comes to other players, you gave the exact number projections. Why not say Higgins is on pace for "about 50 points and about 30 goals"? Considering he's played less games too...In the end, "about 50 points in about 75 games" looks alot better than Lats' projections than you made it look like.

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11-19-2008, 11:56 AM
  #281
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I think Lats has been given every opportunity in the world during this stint in the NHL.
I think he needs to keep working hard to earn his ice time. For me I like him but the jury
is still out.

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11-19-2008, 12:00 PM
  #282
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I think the problem with Latendresse is while I believe he hasn't been managed properly right from the beginning, he's never made a case for himself to actually be playing top line minutes.

He was great at the start of the season, but he slowly started regressing to his old self. Instead of letting him potentially work out his funk, Carbo demoted him and put Higgins back on the line. While I still believe it was Higgins spot to begin with, this has been his problem in a microcosm. As soon as the kid makes a mistake, he gets demoted. Playing Latendresse on the bottom lines is just wasting away his talent. At the same time, if Latendresse displayed consistent efforts like he had last night and showed that he can still be an effective threat, then he probably wouldn't be stuck playing bottom line minutes in the first place.

I find this situation very similar to Grabovski. While he was grossly mismanaged as well, he never really made a significant case to be playing top line minutes. It's sort of a vicious circle much like Lats situation in which both parties are to blame.

I'll say it again though: if Lats is going to keep playing bottom line minutes, package him and O'Byrne for a top 4 D...

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11-19-2008, 12:44 PM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
You're not...I just think it's curious that you say he's on pace for "about 40" but when it comes to other players, you gave the exact number projections. Why not say Higgins is on pace for "about 50 points and about 30 goals"? Considering he's played less games too...In the end, "about 50 points in about 75 games" looks alot better than Lats' projections than you made it look like.
That was the whole point of my post because someone said Lats is on pace for under 10Goals. Instead, I said about 40pts, averaging 13min of Ice time without any PP Time.

It was to show that anybody can spin the stats to favor the point they're trying to make.

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11-19-2008, 01:51 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by HotPie View Post
I think the problem with Latendresse is while I believe he hasn't been managed properly right from the beginning, he's never made a case for himself to actually be playing top line minutes.

He was great at the start of the season, but he slowly started regressing to his old self. Instead of letting him potentially work out his funk, Carbo demoted him and put Higgins back on the line. While I still believe it was Higgins spot to begin with, this has been his problem in a microcosm. As soon as the kid makes a mistake, he gets demoted. Playing Latendresse on the bottom lines is just wasting away his talent. At the same time, if Latendresse displayed consistent efforts like he had last night and showed that he can still be an effective threat, then he probably wouldn't be stuck playing bottom line minutes in the first place.

I find this situation very similar to Grabovski. While he was grossly mismanaged as well, he never really made a significant case to be playing top line minutes. It's sort of a vicious circle much like Lats situation in which both parties are to blame.

I'll say it again though: if Lats is going to keep playing bottom line minutes, package him and O'Byrne for a top 4 D...
I think Lats could be useful to us if he's put on PP.
The regression you're talking about happened the day Higgins came back and Lats wasn't used on PP anymore.

We removed Lats from the Koivu line when he was averaging just under a pt/gp, and we upgraded Higgins even if he wasn't playing any better on the Lang line.

I don't even like Lats, but he's on our team and he can be asset to us. So let's make sure he is.
We need to win, so we have to use everyone in a role where they could perform at their best. Carbo's not doing that right now.

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11-19-2008, 01:55 PM
  #285
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Carbo, not only he is bad at matching lines with opponent's, but he is bad at composing his own...

Lat's will*never develop on a fourth line. He played better than S.Kost since the beginning of the year and he is rewarded with fourth line duties and less ice time... If Carbo wants to send him a message, that is not the right way with Lats.

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11-19-2008, 04:36 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think Lats could be useful to us if he's put on PP.
The regression you're talking about happened the day Higgins came back and Lats wasn't used on PP anymore.

We removed Lats from the Koivu line when he was averaging just under a pt/gp, and we upgraded Higgins even if he wasn't playing any better on the Lang line.


I don't even like Lats, but he's on our team and he can be asset to us. So let's make sure he is.
We need to win, so we have to use everyone in a role where they could perform at their best. Carbo's not doing that right now.

youre dead on on every points, if you compare the game per game stats on NHL.com, between the panther games and the duck games (game in which higgins came back), Latendresse TOI goes down a bit, and he still manage to score a +1 rating in a 6 goals defeat, the next game, his TOI fall from 15 minutes to 11 minutes...

And then the bashing starts and the blind haters like Pascale and CanadienneErrante come into PMS and are bashing him like crazy

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11-19-2008, 05:24 PM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think Lats could be useful to us if he's put on PP.
The regression you're talking about happened the day Higgins came back and Lats wasn't used on PP anymore.

We removed Lats from the Koivu line when he was averaging just under a pt/gp, and we upgraded Higgins even if he wasn't playing any better on the Lang line.

I don't even like Lats, but he's on our team and he can be asset to us. So let's make sure he is.
We need to win, so we have to use everyone in a role where they could perform at their best. Carbo's not doing that right now.
No, the regression I'm talking about is before Higgins replaced Lats. He replaced him because he hadn't been as effective as when the season started. He hadn't been producing much and I guess Carbo felt it was time to put Higgins back on that line.

Problem is, if you use Lats on the PP, what do you do with Higgins? IMO he's still more effective than Latendresse. I think the problem is that it's impossible to use EVERYONE in a role where they can perform at their best, because both Higgins and Lats perform at their best with Koivu and with PP time, and it's impossible to have both.

We'd have to resort to ridiculous line juggling with combinations that so far haven't been working.

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11-19-2008, 05:35 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by HotPie View Post
No, the regression I'm talking about is before Higgins replaced Lats. He replaced him because he hadn't been as effective as when the season started. He hadn't been producing much and I guess Carbo felt it was time to put Higgins back on that line.

Problem is, if you use Lats on the PP, what do you do with Higgins? IMO he's still more effective than Latendresse. I think the problem is that it's impossible to use EVERYONE in a role where they can perform at their best, because both Higgins and Lats perform at their best with Koivu and with PP time, and it's impossible to have both.

We'd have to resort to ridiculous line juggling with combinations that so far haven't been working.
lol... put these two links into your internet browser and Compare the points, its blatant that what you says make no sense whatsoever

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8471670&view=log

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8470274&view=log

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11-19-2008, 05:51 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
lol... put these two links into your internet browser and Compare the points, its blatant that what you says make no sense whatsoever

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8471670&view=log

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8470274&view=log
Um, how? It shows that Lats was producing a lot to start the season and cooled down hence why Higgins returned on the top line and Lats was demoted. It also shows that neither player is being particularily effective offensively right now.

How does this contradict any of what I've said before?

Higgins is still more effective than Lats. If Lats isn't producing, he's more of a liability, Higgins provides a lot more at least.

Right now, the whole team is slumping. Latendresse isn't making a case for himself yet that he should be playing top line minutes. The argument for Latendresse is more if he deserved to be demoted in the first place.


Last edited by HotPie: 11-19-2008 at 05:58 PM.
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11-19-2008, 06:28 PM
  #290
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Um, how? It shows that Lats was producing a lot to start the season and cooled down hence why Higgins returned on the top line and Lats was demoted. It also shows that neither player is being particularily effective offensively right now.

How does this contradict any of what I've said before?

Higgins is still more effective than Lats. If Lats isn't producing, he's more of a liability, Higgins provides a lot more at least.

Right now, the whole team is slumping. Latendresse isn't making a case for himself yet that he should be playing top line minutes. The argument for Latendresse is more if he deserved to be demoted in the first place.
Learn to read noob


lets break games and lets help you a bit

From game 2 (buffalo) to game 5 (phoenix), 6 points in 4 games, then, in game 6 (florida), no points, still plays for 16 minutes

Game 7 (anaheim) Higgins come back, Habs lose 6-4 and Guillaume is still +1, playing 17 minutes, and lot less powerplay

Game 8 (Carolina) Higgin take the spot of Latendesse on the 2nd line, Latendresse TOI falls to 11 minutes

So basickly, Latendresse went scoreless for an Humongus total of 2 GAMES before he was demoted so all the blindless haters that say that Guillaume was slumping and that it ws the reason why he got demoted are wrong, the numbers are a proof that its higgins promotion that made Latendresse slumping, not the opposite

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11-19-2008, 06:33 PM
  #291
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poor little Guilliame he deserve to be on all star team, best player in NHL

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11-19-2008, 06:34 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
Learn to read noob


lets break games and lets help you a bit

From game 2 (buffalo) to game 5 (phoenix), 6 points in 4 games, then, in game 6 (florida), no points, still plays for 16 minutes

Game 7 (anaheim) Higgins come back, Habs lose 6-4 and Guillaume is still +1, playing 17 minutes, and lot less powerplay

Game 8 (Carolina) Higgin take the spot of Latendesse on the 2nd line, Latendresse TOI falls to 11 minutes

So basickly, Latendresse went scoreless for an Humongus total of 2 GAMES before he was demoted so all the blindless haters that say that Guillaume was slumping and that it ws the reason why he got demoted are wrong, the numbers are a proof that its higgins promotion that made Latendresse slumping, not the opposite
Um, I don't know if you forgot, but Higgins joined Koivu's line permantly in the NYI game. I remember because he scored in the first game they were reunited.

So um, maybe you should get YOUR facts straight..noob.

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11-19-2008, 06:47 PM
  #293
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Um, I don't know if you forgot, but Higgins joined Koivu's line permantly in the NYI game. I remember because he scored in the first game they were reunited.

So um, maybe you should get YOUR facts straight..noob.
Well, if this is the case, you're busted because Guillaume got a point before being demoted, basicly, doing great at least 6 games, being less good for 2, then having a good game once is enough to deserve on being demoted? I would not want you as a coach

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11-19-2008, 06:55 PM
  #294
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Well, if this is the case, you're busted because Guillaume got a point before being demoted, basicly, doing great at least 6 games, being less good for 2, then having a good game once is enough to deserve on being demoted? I would not want you as a coach
He had 1 point in 4 games during Higgins return in the lineup while still playing with Koivu, and he'd been 1 point in 5 prior. He wasn't producing offensively.

Listen, if you actually bothered reading my other posts, I've argued that I don't think Lats necessarily deserved to be demoted, but the argument can definitely go both ways. As soon as Lats plays bad he gets demoted, but at the same time he's simply not making a good enough cause for him to be playing top line minutes. It's a vicious circle in which both parties are to blame, like I mentioned before.

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11-19-2008, 07:01 PM
  #295
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He had 1 point in 4 games during Higgins return in the lineup while still playing with Koivu, and he'd been 1 point in 5 prior. He wasn't producing offensively.

Listen, if you actually bothered reading my other posts, I've argued that I don't think Lats necessarily deserved to be demoted, but the argument can definitely go both ways. As soon as Lats plays bad he gets demoted, but at the same time he's simply not making a good enough cause for him to be playing top line minutes. It's a vicious circle in which both parties are to blame, like I mentioned before.
well... lets focus our energy on repelling the real trolls then

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11-19-2008, 09:57 PM
  #296
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No, the regression I'm talking about is before Higgins replaced Lats. He replaced him because he hadn't been as effective as when the season started. He hadn't been producing much and I guess Carbo felt it was time to put Higgins back on that line.

Problem is, if you use Lats on the PP, what do you do with Higgins? IMO he's still more effective than Latendresse. I think the problem is that it's impossible to use EVERYONE in a role where they can perform at their best, because both Higgins and Lats perform at their best with Koivu and with PP time, and it's impossible to have both.

We'd have to resort to ridiculous line juggling with combinations that so far haven't been working.
Higgins took over Lat's PP time as soon as his first game back. That's what I was talking about. Lats got his PP Ice Time cut short a bit, this continued for 2games. The following game Higgy was placed with Koivu in the 3rd.

Regardless of what happened. We're now in our first funk. Higgins has been demoted and a ghost since his hat-trick in OTT. So he's not where you consider him to be scoring the most.
Our PP has been crap and is ranked 25-26th, so whatever we're doing it's clearly ain't working.

Why shouldn't Lats get the chance to play on PP?..I don't care if it's S.Kost or Higgins or Lang, but I don't see why Lats is on 4th line.
Seriously, hate him all you want but in no way did he play bad enough to be demoted on 4th. And in no way should Kosto be on 2nd line.
To be honest, A.Kost has not played better than Lats so far. Neither did S.Kost, Plekanec, Higgins, Lang. They haven't been any better than Lats really.

The ridiculous line juggling is already in play. Putting Kovalev with 2 other players that like to stickhandle. Putting a 4th liner with our best center the past 2seasons. Putting a guy that could give you some offense on 4th line.
I don't know about you, but those are some pretty ridiculous line juggling.

On a smaller note, the same can apply to Lappy who I feel has been our most consistent player from the start of the season. He has 1 average game, and gets scratched.

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11-19-2008, 10:00 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by HotPie View Post
As soon as Lats plays bad he gets demoted, but at the same time he's simply not making a good enough cause for him to be playing top line minutes. It's a vicious circle in which both parties are to blame, like I mentioned before.
In all seriousness, you can't possibly convince me that Higgins is playing good enough to get top line minutes. Not even Kovalev is, nor is Plek-A.Kost-S.Kost-Lang. Only Koivu and Tanguay have been producing, but they haven't been quite spectacular these past couple games either.

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