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11/18/08 "Tocchet On The Docket" - Panthers VS. Lightning

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11-19-2008, 08:45 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Mogo View Post
We seriously gotta do something to this shots against total per game. Its ridiculous. 35-50 every night
Agreed. As nice as it is to get the shootout win (which never should have gone to a shootout in the first place), the shots we are giving up consisently now is unacceptable. Wasn't that the whole point of our offseason? Reduce shots against and scoring chances? You can't tell me losing Allen is responsible for Vokoun needing 49 saves against the worst offense in the NHL. This is scary.

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11-19-2008, 09:47 AM
  #102
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Sure he has not looked good this season, but last year he had 15 goals, which was three goals behind Mike Green last season. Lets not all get carried away here with Bouwmeester now. The kid is a talented Dman and since he doesnt want to sign here, it seems everyone is really starting to turn on him the way most did with Jokinen.
i agree, pb - people here are falling into the same trap they did with mccabe in TO. they need a whipping boy. it's not the same as with olli, tho - the contract situation makes this completely different. anybody thinking he's tanking cuz he doesn't care is being foolish. this is potentially the most important year in his career. a poor year could impact his next contract significantly. there's no way he's tanking. he's made some mistakes but he's out there playing his tail off every night. he's gone through stretches like this before. he'll pull through.

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11-19-2008, 10:08 AM
  #103
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I was at the game last night and Vokoun saved our ass more than the numbers even show. I felt bad for him because he stood no chance to stop the 3 goals that went in. Two of them were through some serious traffic (at least 5 guys in both goals) and the third was a perfect pass from Lecavalier, from behind the net, right out to the opposite side in the slot. If he can keep this play up and the defense can get back to how they have been playing, we've got a great combination there.

Cullimore had a goal saving stick check on a wide open net. It was a great play.

Frolik looked real good this game. He used his speed well.

Horton didn't look great, but didn't look horrible either. His shootout goal, he came in wide skated to the center and just blew the wrister over Smith's shoulder.

I wish I knew what it was, but Smith was crying to the refs for no lie, like 5 minutes. They were delaying dropping the puck because he was still talking.

If anyone wants to know anything else about the game since it wasn't televised, ask away.

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11-19-2008, 10:42 AM
  #104
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Bo as looked horrible this season and he has looked average the past two years. Too many turnovers and stupid penalties taken.
He averaged the most ice time in the league the past two seasons while going up against the other teams top players and scoring above 40 points. If the Panthers didn't have him the other defensemen would be playing out of position (Ballard would be #1, Mccabe #2...etc.) which would make the team even worse. Just wait till Bo is on a team that actually has a winning atmosphere and he is surrounded with skill.

You don't get better trading away your best players.


Last edited by Acadmus: 11-20-2008 at 10:23 AM. Reason: flaming
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11-19-2008, 10:47 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Haj View Post
He averaged the most ice time in the league the past two seasons while going up against the other teams top players and scoring above 40 points. If the Panthers didn't have him the other defensemen would be playing out of position (Ballard would be #1, Mccabe #2...etc.) which would make the team even worse. Just wait till Bo is on a team that actually has a winning atmosphere and he is surrounded with skill.

You don't get better trading away your best players.
Wow! Calm down there bud... I agree with most that Bouw needs to go. Not because I think he's a bad player (he's actually my favorite Panther) but because he is not going to resign here. If we lose our best player for nothing, this franchise will be set back even further.

I know Bouw will do great on another team and I will cheer for him, but his time here is past.


Last edited by Acadmus: 11-20-2008 at 10:23 AM. Reason: editing flames out of quote
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11-19-2008, 10:55 AM
  #106
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The Panthers would be better off trading him, getting players to help up front and who will actually work. When has Bo had passion this year?


Last edited by Acadmus: 11-20-2008 at 10:24 AM. Reason: referring to deleted content
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11-19-2008, 11:37 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Bure1096 View Post
The Panthers would be better off trading him, getting players to help up front and who will actually work. When has Bo had passion this year?
Well, to be frank, Bouw never played with passion. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but his demeanor says a lot, namely that he's cool headed and calm. I value that, and (I assume) so do a lot of other fans, but let's not attribute to him a quality that isn't his.


Last edited by Acadmus: 11-20-2008 at 10:24 AM. Reason: quoted post edited
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11-19-2008, 11:48 AM
  #108
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Haj, settle, no name calling needed. The Panthers would be better off trading him, getting players to help up front and who will actually work. When has Bo had passion this year?
yeah, right. players who will actually work. ha. this magical player from somewhere else who will actually "try". love it! look, bo works his ass off and truly earns his paycheck in an obvious manner most nights, as do most others. the team has some holes and is fighting its organizational identity as a loser and it isn't as simply as changing a player here and there for someone who tries harder (whatever the hell that means).

you're also making giant assumptions about our D corps without jay, which i would say is only fair (though i understand mccabe has looked good since coming back - haven't seen any of the games).

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11-19-2008, 11:52 AM
  #109
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well then wouldn't that negate any of your comments? and one name comes to mind when I think about work, BOOOOOOTTTTTTHHH!

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11-19-2008, 12:58 PM
  #110
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well then wouldn't that negate any of your comments? and one name comes to mind when I think about work, BOOOOOOTTTTTTHHH!
yeah, yeah. that's the easy choice but that's because that's who he is and his style - just because guys aren't crashing the net with abandon doesn't mean they're not trying.

i'm not sure what you mean when you say "negate comments".

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11-19-2008, 01:00 PM
  #111
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do you watch any of the games?

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11-19-2008, 01:04 PM
  #112
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Does Nicklas Lidstrom play with an overt level of passion ? No, he goes about his buisness being one of the greatest defensemen of all time. Sometimes you need cold clinical laser guided precision on the backline. I don't think Bouwmeester will ever be as physical as a Chris Pronger or Scott Stevens...or become as great as Lidstrom but he is a bonafide #1 Dman in the league.

Its just frustrating to watch our best players Luongo, Jokinen, and Bouwmeester become fed up with the franchise and want out. Its frustrating to go to games and be the only one making noise. Its frustrating to pay 150 dollars for NHL Center Ice. Its frustrating to pay 12 dollars for a beer at the game.


Last edited by Acadmus: 11-20-2008 at 10:27 AM. Reason: removing reference to deleted content, but accepted apology to the board as reason to reverse infraction
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11-19-2008, 01:17 PM
  #113
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I understand Haj, but I think under certain circumstances Luongo and Jokinen played themselves out of here. (Luongo more or less b/c of Keenan.) I should equate Bo's "passion" with how hard he plays and how smart he plays. He usually is a very smart defender, always in the right place and makes the right play. When we have trouble clearing the zone I want the puck on his stick. The past two seasons have been shaky. Although he has been hitting more, he just seems to make mistakes that others made (mezei). I know they aren't as brutal but for a world class Dman, this shouldn't happen as much as it has. Bo in 06 was the best defensemen I've seen. I don't know if it is a loss of confidence within himself or with the team. But as far as him demeanor, I have no problems with it. I agree we need a calm cool collected guy on the blue-line. It just isn't translating.

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11-19-2008, 01:21 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bure1096 View Post
I understand Haj, but I think under certain circumstances Luongo and Jokinen played themselves out of here. (Luongo more or less b/c of Keenan.) I should equate Bo's "passion" with how hard he plays and how smart he plays. He usually is a very smart defender, always in the right place and makes the right play. When we have trouble clearing the zone I want the puck on his stick. The past two seasons have been shaky. Although he has been hitting more, he just seems to make mistakes that others made (mezei). I know they aren't as brutal but for a world class Dman, this shouldn't happen as much as it has. Bo in 06 was the best defensemen I've seen. I don't know if it is a loss of confidence within himself or with the team. But as far as him demeanor, I have no problems with it. I agree we need a calm cool collected guy on the blue-line. It just isn't translating.
You are right about that. Bouw of 06 was absolutely incredible. He hasn't been playing at that level since.

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11-19-2008, 01:28 PM
  #115
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I understand Haj, but I think under certain circumstances Luongo and Jokinen played themselves out of here. (Luongo more or less b/c of Keenan.)
If Luongo and Jokinen palyed themselves out of here, then what the hell did everyone else who stuck around from those years do to really stay? Are you saying they were playing at a level too good for the rest of the team? Were they really the problems with those teams?

I just don't get where a comment like that is comming from. What each of them did to get traded is a subject for a bit too much debate, but I would hardly say they played themselves out of here.

And as to defensive lapses, when a player is on the ice for such a substantial amount of time, they will happen. Even the defensively sound, Selke winning Datsyuk might make a turnover here and there; see Jordan Staal.

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11-19-2008, 01:36 PM
  #116
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Luongo being unreasonable did not help his situation here. His play was excellent, wish he was still here, but things happen.

Jokinen floated last year. He did not come to play when it meant the most last year and pretty much became a cancer in trying to get Martin fired.

I saw that Staal steal on Datsyuk, but if you saw the errors Bo was making they are glaringly different. Shooting the puck in the crowd in the D zone, bad passes up the middle and a few times this year, fanning on those passes allowing the puck to go infront of the net. I haven't seen Datsyuk do that.

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11-19-2008, 03:11 PM
  #117
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Jokinen floated last year. He did not come to play when it meant the most last year and pretty much became a cancer in trying to get Martin fired.
Yeah he did float for the last 1/3 of a season after he almost killed a guy. Then he became the scapegoat for not missing the playoffs. I'm sure once Bouwmeester is traded Martin & Company will blame missing the playoffs on his situation being a distraction.

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11-19-2008, 03:58 PM
  #118
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Yeah he did float for the last 1/3 of a season after he almost killed a guy. Then he became the scapegoat for not missing the playoffs. I'm sure once Bouwmeester is traded Martin & Company will blame missing the playoffs on his situation being a distraction.
uh...have yoou missed Belak, GR, and others' comments about Olli?

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11-19-2008, 06:15 PM
  #119
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Yeah he did float for most of last season, and also the last 1/3 of a season after he almost killed a guy. Then he admitted to the media that he didn't play well for most of the season, and Martin cited his poor performance as well as that of others as some reasons for missing the playoffs. I'm sure once Bouwmeester is traded Martin & Company won't blame missing the playoffs on his situation being a distraction, because that's just lame.

Fixed it for ya.

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11-19-2008, 10:31 PM
  #120
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yeah, right. players who will actually work. ha. this magical player from somewhere else who will actually "try". love it! look, bo works his ass off and truly earns his paycheck in an obvious manner most nights, as do most others. the team has some holes and is fighting its organizational identity as a loser and it isn't as simply as changing a player here and there for someone who tries harder (whatever the hell that means).

you're also making giant assumptions about our D corps without jay, which i would say is only fair (though i understand mccabe has looked good since coming back - haven't seen any of the games).
Sorry for butting in but I gotta express my disagreement with this comment. I don't think Bouw is even CLOSE to earning his paycheck this year. Checking the eastern conference, the only D-men making more than Bouw this year are Chara, Markov, Green, Kubina, Gonchar, Rozsival and Redden. Unless I missed someone that's 7 people. I don't think Bouw has been playing anywhere near those guys level in any of the games I have seen this year (or maybe Gonchar who's on a decline). So the criticism expressed here is abundantly valid and makes the point perfectly. Given the combination that Bouw is not playing well and does not want to stay, I really hope JM will be able to trade him for something reasonable.

This is the most important season of Bouw's career and so far he's blowing it. But who knows maybe he'll be happier to be making less money and skating less minutes on a better team. If so, it should tell DeBoer and JM everything they need to know about him as far as re-signing goes.

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11-20-2008, 05:09 AM
  #121
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Sorry for butting in but I gotta express my disagreement with this comment. I don't think Bouw is even CLOSE to earning his paycheck this year. Checking the eastern conference, the only D-men making more than Bouw this year are Chara, Markov, Green, Kubina, Gonchar, Rozsival and Redden. Unless I missed someone that's 7 people. I don't think Bouw has been playing anywhere near those guys level in any of the games I have seen this year (or maybe Gonchar who's on a decline). So the criticism expressed here is abundantly valid and makes the point perfectly. Given the combination that Bouw is not playing well and does not want to stay, I really hope JM will be able to trade him for something reasonable.

This is the most important season of Bouw's career and so far he's blowing it. But who knows maybe he'll be happier to be making less money and skating less minutes on a better team. If so, it should tell DeBoer and JM everything they need to know about him as far as re-signing goes.
you are misunderstanding me. i'm not saying he's playing great, just that he's working hard. i've really never had a problem with jay in that regard and i think it's unfair and wrong to paint him as a quitter, which it seems some are. even you yourself suggest that he's having a poor season so far because he doesn't want to stay while at the same time agreeing with my point about this being the most important season for him. that just doesn't make sense.

i do agree that he isn't playing as well as he needs to (both in terms of offense and +/-), both for our sake and his but that happens sometimes. i really think he'll come around.

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