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Dandenault over Brisebois?

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Old
11-20-2008, 12:38 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by mariolemieux66 View Post
I did read your post ...

But come on
it was a long one too... I'm bored as hell.

We may not have seen it as much this year but I think he can still make a nice first pass and get off a pretty good point shot if all goes well.

Really, I think it's been the team d that's hurt us and not so much the guys at the lower end of the ice time spectrum. Tighten up our breakout (bring the wingers lower, have everyone skating when they make/take passes) and defensive zone coverage we'd have it made. It'll come.

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11-20-2008, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mariolemieux66 View Post
i have seen him in the pre-season.
Still he cant be that much worst than Brakewood and Dandenault, really!?
There's a reason he's been in 3 different NHL organizations by the age of 23.

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11-20-2008, 01:04 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
There's a reason he's been in 3 different NHL organizations by the age of 23.
Yes, ut i think he still has potential. Like you mention he is only 23 and from what i heard and saw he is a pretty decent skater with a huge frame, 6'1 230. He might be a late bloomer and might be nhl ready at 25-26 who knows.
He does'nt seem to be doing too bad in Hamilton where he leads the team in +/_.

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11-20-2008, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mariolemieux66 View Post
Yes, ut i think he still has potential. Like you mention he is only 23 and from what i heard and saw he is a pretty decent skater with a huge frame, 6'1 230. He might be a late bloomer and might be nhl ready at 25-26 who knows.
He does'nt seem to be doing too bad in Hamilton where he leads the team in +/_.
The +/- stat is pretty misleading for him. I really have no idea how it's that high. Probably similar to how Brisebois is a career plus (+) player. Or how Breezer is a +2 this season.

The guy was supposed to be an offensive defenseman.. but that seems to have alluded him at the pro ranks.

Admittedly, he does move pretty well for the frame he has.

His biggest problem is what hurts him most.. he has absolutely zero hockey sense, especially at the NHL level. He can get by with his minimal knowledge of the game in the AHL.. but in the NHL.. he won't cut it.

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11-20-2008, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Wild Turkey View Post
it was a long one too... I'm bored as hell.

We may not have seen it as much this year but I think he can still make a nice first pass and get off a pretty good point shot if all goes well.

Really, I think it's been the team d that's hurt us and not so much the guys at the lower end of the ice time spectrum. Tighten up our breakout (bring the wingers lower, have everyone skating when they make/take passes) and defensive zone coverage we'd have it made. It'll come.
The last few games have convinced me how insulated he has to be. He can make th epass, but not under duress, he has a good shot, but can't be challenged. He's just so fragile now, you can see how he tries to rush a little chip whenever racing for the puck, he doesn't believe he can get there and make his play, so he rushes to compensate. Too bad, I never really disliked the guy though I never felt he became as good as forecast, but there's very little left in that tank.

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11-20-2008, 02:03 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
The last few games have convinced me how insulated he has to be. He can make th epass, but not under duress, he has a good shot, but can't be challenged. He's just so fragile now, you can see how he tries to rush a little chip whenever racing for the puck, he doesn't believe he can get there and make his play, so he rushes to compensate. Too bad, I never really disliked the guy though I never felt he became as good as forecast, but there's very little left in that tank.
Was he really forecast to be anything special?

I know he was drafted fairly high because he had good offensive instincts, but from all the reports, etc I read from that period.. he was more of a high risk, high reward type pick. His size was brought into question many, many times.

I always thought he could of been a lot better of a player had the Canadiens been a good team through the majority of his period here. He would of been an excellent second (2nd) pairing guy who could QB the first (1st) Powerplay wave.

He could of also posted a lot better scoring numbers had the Canadiens been any good for the majority of his career. He had one season where he could of scored 50 points, which was halted by injury. He had another season where, I think, he led the NHL in goals for defenseman.

He could of been a great complimentary player except he was supposed to be THE player. And he never was nor could of been that.

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11-20-2008, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
The last few games have convinced me how insulated he has to be. He can make th epass, but not under duress, he has a good shot, but can't be challenged. He's just so fragile now, you can see how he tries to rush a little chip whenever racing for the puck, he doesn't believe he can get there and make his play, so he rushes to compensate. Too bad, I never really disliked the guy though I never felt he became as good as forecast, but there's very little left in that tank.
I see that too and all I can think to respond with is that maybe it's been more apparent with him picking up minutes, related to the Komisarek injury, and/or he hasn't been getting any help from our weak team d. I still see some upside in his game but he needs to show it more consistently (the Habs problem, i think, is that you could say the same about any of the other 3-guys in the thread: Dandenault, O'byrne, or Brisebois)

Another option not seriously considered so far is Henry. He has his downside too and hasn't shown enough consistency to stick with other orgs, so it's doubtful he suddenly puts it all together. But, I'd think about calling him up and giving him a look if our problems persist. Stranger things have happened... could try Weber too... but he's pretty raw.

Komisarek's injury has exposed us a bit, despite our prospect depth, we are a little thin on the blue line. I'm starting to fall into the look for a #4 d-man camp. I'm more comfortable with the NHL-readiness of the guys up front on the farm. One more solid contributor for the blue-line is looking like a better mix of resources for the improvement of our team.

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11-20-2008, 02:12 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Brisebois definitely is past his prime.. but we all know he's getting his 1,000 games in.. so we might as well just sit back and let it happen. He's got 40 games to go.. and if he doesn't get them in this year.. he'll be back next year until he does.

On a positive note, he's only been on the ice for THREE opposing goals this season, while sitting with a +2 rating. He also very rarely takes penalties.

He's not supposed to be playing in the Top-6.. but injuries have forced that. It's a shame and it may not be best for the team.. but it's what we have right now.

I know I'm a bit biased as well.. and I know he hasn't been great.. but I really, really don't think he's been that bad. He's made some good passes and he shoots on the PP (though its not a great shot).. and that's something our other players need to take note of.
That's 100% true and 100% disgusting.

I really hope his hip shatters in 1000 places on his 999th game.

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11-20-2008, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by BigTimer View Post
That's 100% true and 100% disgusting.

I really hope his hip shatters in 1000 places on his 999th game.
No, that's disgusting. Wishing injury upon another person is pretty low.

That sucks.. I used to respect you as a poster.

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11-20-2008, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
Breezer is really struggling to keep up. Physically and defensively, he can't compete and Carbo isn't hardly using him on the PP. Until Komi comes back, why not put Dandy on the 3rd pairing with Bouillon? It can't be worse, imho.
Dandenault has played with a fair bit of energy and dedication since being converted to a part time forward. I don't remember 2006 much. I do remember (most of) the past week. I'd be ready to find out if Dandenault wanted to try to apply himself to keeping a regular job on D again.

I don't see how it could hurt to try. Maybe Brisebois technically hasn't burned us at all yet, but I just wince every time he's out there, he looks so... exploitable. Sooner or later that has to cost us, doesn't it?

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11-20-2008, 03:45 PM
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The Bouillon-Brisebois pairing in our own end has been close to horrible. I would definetly try out Dandenault at D a couple of games if it means benching Breezer instead of Lapierre, Begin or Laraque.

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11-20-2008, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Dandenault has played with a fair bit of energy and dedication since being converted to a part time forward. I don't remember 2006 much. I do remember (most of) the past week. I'd be ready to find out if Dandenault wanted to try to apply himself to keeping a regular job on D again.

I don't see how it could hurt to try. Maybe Brisebois technically hasn't burned us at all yet, but I just wince every time he's out there, he looks so... exploitable. Sooner or later that has to cost us, doesn't it?
It may.. or it may not. Who knows. Maybe he's saving a little in his tank for down the stretch.. he was pretty good in the playoffs.

However, while we have the good talent.. it's better to just let him get to his 1,000 games, give him his ceremony, and ease him into his defensive coach position that is likely to happen.

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11-20-2008, 04:20 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by rocketlives View Post
Dandenault over Brisebois is like tuberculosis over the bubonic plague.
There's a cure for T.B. I don't think they've founs a cure for the plague.

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11-20-2008, 04:53 PM
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If O'Byrne used his size and layed out some checks once in awhile he would be much more useful but right now he is about as terrible as Breezer. I say waive Breezer and call up Weber, can't be much worse.

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11-20-2008, 05:34 PM
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Is this like a choice? Dandy vs Breezer. Sounds like a Godzilla movie

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11-20-2008, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Was he really forecast to be anything special?

I know he was drafted fairly high because he had good offensive instincts, but from all the reports, etc I read from that period.. he was more of a high risk, high reward type pick. His size was brought into question many, many times.

I always thought he could of been a lot better of a player had the Canadiens been a good team through the majority of his period here. He would of been an excellent second (2nd) pairing guy who could QB the first (1st) Powerplay wave.

He could of also posted a lot better scoring numbers had the Canadiens been any good for the majority of his career. He had one season where he could of scored 50 points, which was halted by injury. He had another season where, I think, he led the NHL in goals for defenseman.

He could of been a great complimentary player except he was supposed to be THE player. And he never was nor could of been that.
I'm not positive, but I've heard guys talk of the hopes they had for him, but I think he was one of those guys that was rated high early and came back to the pack during his draft year. He made the league young though, and often, early he'd put up numbers but he was one of those guys that never seemed to sustain a good year,imo.

Yeah, he would've been better off if the team had kept Desjardins, but they thought he'd be better, at least Serge Savard did, and he was wrong.

As to his 1000th game, I've seen hf talk about it. I've seen comments here but nothing from the team. He's playing because the satff wasn't happy with O'b, then because Komo got hurt. If there were options in Hamilton, they would've been used. I keep hearing about Carbo and Brisebois being old buddies. From when ? Carbo left, when 94, 95 ? Brisebois was a rookie, I'm not sure they hung out much. They didn't have a history like some others.

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11-20-2008, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
No, that's disgusting. Wishing injury upon another person is pretty low.

That sucks.. I used to respect you as a poster.
What you don't understand is that the Montreal Canadiens isn't a country club or a fan club. It's a team that's part of a specator sport, and the spectators want a winning team. Brisebois, at this point and time, does not belong on the Montreal Canadiens because the fans want a winning team and Patrice does not contribute to that. Just look at the Habs record with him in the lineup over the past two years... it's a big enough sample to mean something.

I have nothing against Brisebois getting his 1000 games... I do have a problem with him getting his 1000 games as a Montreal Canadien. We are supposed to be a contending team in the top quarter of the conference, and yet we still keep Brisebois on the team. And like you said, the writing is on the wall, he WILL be here next year when his abilities will of diminished even more.

You know as well as I do that if Carbo wasn't behind the bench, that Brisebois might not of joined the Habs for a second stint. It's a clear example of nepotism, and with that word in play it becomes a very slippery slope for the rest of the dressing room.

The Canadiens owe nothing to Brisebois. Absolutely nothing.

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11-20-2008, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I'm not positive, but I've heard guys talk of the hopes they had for him, but I think he was one of those guys that was rated high early and came back to the pack during his draft year. He made the league young though, and often, early he'd put up numbers but he was one of those guys that never seemed to sustain a good year,imo.

Yeah, he would've been better off if the team had kept Desjardins, but they thought he'd be better, at least Serge Savard did, and he was wrong.

As to his 1000th game, I've seen hf talk about it. I've seen comments here but nothing from the team. He's playing because the satff wasn't happy with O'b, then because Komo got hurt. If there were options in Hamilton, they would've been used. I keep hearing about Carbo and Brisebois being old buddies. From when ? Carbo left, when 94, 95 ? Brisebois was a rookie, I'm not sure they hung out much. They didn't have a history like some others.
Brisebois may have meet him during all the previous training camps and such.

But there was an article or two on the NHL website last year after the season about Brisebois getting to 1,000 games before he retires. I think Carbo and/or Gainey was in the article, but I can't quite remember.

Yeah, Breezer would of been a very good 2nd pairing defenseman.. but he was expected to do to much. The hate wasn't fair.. people say he started to get booed because he was paid like a #1 but not performing (I'm his biggest fan and he was NEVER a #1.. #3-#4 is where he would of been best).. But that would be like one of us turning down a pay raise.

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11-20-2008, 06:30 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by BigTimer View Post
What you don't understand is that the Montreal Canadiens isn't a country club or a fan club. It's a team that's part of a specator sport, and the spectators want a winning team. Brisebois, at this point and time, does not belong on the Montreal Canadiens because the fans want a winning team and Patrice does not contribute to that. Just look at the Habs record with him in the lineup over the past two years... it's a big enough sample to mean something.

I have nothing against Brisebois getting his 1000 games... I do have a problem with him getting his 1000 games as a Montreal Canadien. We are supposed to be a contending team in the top quarter of the conference, and yet we still keep Brisebois on the team. And like you said, the writing is on the wall, he WILL be here next year when his abilities will of diminished even more.

You know as well as I do that if Carbo wasn't behind the bench, that Brisebois might not of joined the Habs for a second stint. It's a clear example of nepotism, and with that word in play it becomes a very slippery slope for the rest of the dressing room.

The Canadiens owe nothing to Brisebois. Absolutely nothing.
What I don't understand? Read my post again and you'll see I do. I don't think he should be playing a regular shift anymore.. I don't mind him as a #7 (but we didn't need him because of Dandenault).

Like McPhee said above, where are you finding this huge Carbo/Briesbois friendship. They played like.. 1-2 years together. Brisebois was golfing with Bob Gainey when he spoke to him about a return, not Carbo.

I also highly disagree with the last point. I don't think they owe it to him to let him get 1,000 games. But they do owe him something.. Minus 2 years, the guy is a lifelong Hab. He also showed by coming back that Montreal IS the place to be .. that might help with potential UFAs. They don't owe him games.. but they do owe him something.

Plus, Montreal is the only team without a defensive coach.. Brisebois will be there, if he wants it next year.

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11-20-2008, 06:43 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
What I don't understand? Read my post again and you'll see I do. I don't think he should be playing a regular shift anymore.. I don't mind him as a #7 (but we didn't need him because of Dandenault).

Like McPhee said above, where are you finding this huge Carbo/Briesbois friendship. They played like.. 1-2 years together. Brisebois was golfing with Bob Gainey when he spoke to him about a return, not Carbo.

I also highly disagree with the last point. I don't think they owe it to him to let him get 1,000 games. But they do owe him something.. Minus 2 years, the guy is a lifelong Hab. He also showed by coming back that Montreal IS the place to be .. that might help with potential UFAs. They don't owe him games.. but they do owe him something.

Plus, Montreal is the only team without a defensive coach.. Brisebois will be there, if he wants it next year.
Now don't you see bigger problems with the Organization based on a post like that?

1. Only team without a defensive coach. Only candidate at this time appears to be Brisebois.

2. This Carbo/Brisebois friendship is based on what I know. Take it or leave it. Or you can look at it from the "I guess the coach doesn't have the balls to tell the GM that he needs a competent d-man with size and endurance".... two offseasons in a row.

3. They don't owe him 1000 games, like you said, and they also don't owe him a spot on the team. They could give him a ceremony once he retires... but as far as anything on-ice related, they owe him absolutely nothing. What they're doing right now is setting a terrible example.

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11-20-2008, 06:46 PM
  #46
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Brisebois is only to blame for a small part of this. The rest is on Gainey and Carbo. I can't blame Brisebois for playing the sport he loves in a city he loves for a million dollars.

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11-20-2008, 06:52 PM
  #47
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3. They don't owe him 1000 games, like you said, and they also don't owe him a spot on the team. They could give him a ceremony once he retires... but as far as anything on-ice related, they owe him absolutely nothing. What they're doing right now is setting a terrible example.
This is what I meant.. I didn't mean they owe him on-ice related (though I don't think he's been bad for a #7).. but a ceremony would be nice.

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